aracer - MemberSo he didn't actually at any point claim he hadn't not shown them respect as you claimed earlier? That wasn't a completely truthful statement was it - what's that you're muttering under your breath, ernie?
You're obviously on some sort of pedantic point scoring exercise aracer so I suspect this is a waste of time, specially as you perfectly capable of googling yourself, but here you are anyway :
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19671093 ]Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell apologises to police[/url]
[b][i]"I accept I did not treat the police with the respect they deserve," he said. [/i][/b]
It's interesting that on a thread titled "police fudging the truth" that people want to fudge the truth and pretend that things which clearly happened didn't happen.
Anyway aracer, I'm sure you will milk this with some smartarse pedantic point claiming that "did not treat the police with the respect" isn't the same as "did not show police respect".
You know you want to 🙄
Andymc wouldn't get too het up here about all this, just tribal bickering from Tory fanboys defending their own, kinda like the police ! 😉
Very good mate who's a copper and wouldnt want to deal with the shit he does day in day out, like most on here I'm happy in my comfy middle classtrackworld office (well lab) job
Tbh an arrogant **** like Mitchell spoke down to me I'd want to stick it too him as well, the trouble is the whole thing then got caught up in the Westminster bitchfest bullshit machine
The laughable conspiracy ramblings above are just that . once again storm in a t cup
Andy, are you a policeman, yes or no?
Well he comes's across as not very bright, avoids answering a straight question (evasive about the truth), and seems to think the Police are above question, so I'd say a definite yes.
EDIT forgot to add abusive, so I'd say probably MET
Kimbers explain the recorded events without it being a conspiracy ?
Footflaps - abusive keyboard warrior/coward yes? I have said dishonest police should be sacked. What am i avoiding other than your crushing cowardice? Your job please?
thegreatape - MemberPost a 😀 if you love the police and think they're all awesome.
Well clearly not all coppers are awesome. But I've got to say that I've got quite a lot of respect for the ones who post on STW. I'm sure it takes a bit of guts to be upfront and admit on a forum that you're a copper, when there's a high risk that you'll get some stick for it, as amply illustrated by footflaps puerile comment.
😀
The recorded events or robdixons assertions on page 2 ? As in what I was referring to
andymc06. I haven't contributed to this so far. I will say that if you show as little respect to members of the public as you have shown here then you should be ashamed of your attitude. You are a public servant not superior to the public because of the job you do.
You also need to learn that people are worth no more or less if they have put themselves at risk to protect others. Not everyone has the opportunity and that is not the type of selflessness or bravery that everyone has. There are many other valuable kinds.
No matter how old you are - your behaviour on this thread shows you need to gain some maturity and wisdom.
Double post.
footflaps peurile comment was pretty funny, given that andymc06 is defending the indefensible, given that the IPCC is world reknowned for letting the cops off, given the fact that they have come out against the cops in this instance, it means that the evidence must be compelling. (well it is, Mitchells recording vs West Mercias statement) No glory for the MET or West Mercia this day.
TBH I have met a few cops and been on the receiving end (both for and against) and the results have been mixed, 50/50. Which is bad, it should be more like 99.99/0.001. Anecdotes don't make science, but I do find myself avoiding the cops at all costs, I thinkt he innocent have very much to fear. I would be hard pressed to report a crime these days unless someone was in physical danger, as I cannot stand the idea/risk of being anywhere near a copper, as even as an innocent they will always seek a way to find criminality in your actions. Just avoid them.
Im afraid some bad examples of large scale police corruptions like Hillsborough and personal experience of corruption several years ago and knowing a few now who joined because they were either desperate for authority or simply wanted easy access to vulnerable women has left me very cynical about the plod.
I would be more likely to trust the average person in the street than a copper, which is a bit sad.
Very kind of you ernie, although I've found that most people have a balanced/realistic view. Some have a negative view, but when that's based on bad experience it's fair enough (eg. jonah tonto ^ ). Some just stereotype all police officers (oh the irony), but they can be safely ignored!
footflaps peurile comment was pretty funny, given that andymc06 is defending the indefensible.
Well it wasn't really aimed at andymc06 was it, it was a much more aimed at all coppers. And I've got to admit the comic value of it went straight over my head.
I've got to say that the majority of police officers I've met have been pretty good. Met a couple who were not particularly helpful but that's about it.
ernie, as you appear to have completely missed my point, let me quote your post back at you:
Did he resign for calling the police "plebs" or did he resign for swearing at police officers and not showing them "respect", something which he admitted doing after initially lying and claiming that he hadn't ?
So you're claiming that at some point he lied and claimed he hadn't "not shown the police officers respect". My first response to that was quoting something very similar to what you've just posted where he admits from the off that he didn't show the officers respect, so that's clearly something he's never lied about.
I can understand the confusion comes from the double negative - I couldn't think of a better way of writing it, and hence why I've used a quote above to separate the two negatives. My apologies for not making it as clear as I should have.
Not a clever point scoring exercise or trying to fudge the truth, simply that I couldn't remember exactly what had happened (I don't think I paid that much attention at the time), hence didn't know the truth about what he'd claimed about the swearing. The articles I found simply proved that he did always admit not showing sufficient respect, contrary to your claim.
the comic value of it went straight over my head
Fair enough, I guess it depends what coloured lenses you view this place through. Mine kind of gives it a "have i got News For You" type tint, most comments make me laugh, unless it is truly scummy (which does happen here..)
well david davies has just come on Newsnight and slagged off the police said they had a deep institutional problem (with lying)
of course hes good friends with mitchell- he supported davies leadership attempt, possibly why cameron was so quick to dump him...?
most comments make me laugh
I hope mine don't 😐
well david davies has just come on Newsnight and slagged off the police said they had a deep institutional problem (with lying)
I wonder whether he had quite such a problem with the police lying when it was about striking miners, or dead Liverpool fans.
you especially ernie
Such cruelty.
Thank-you Ernie for a balanced view. Jamj1974 what contributory job do you do? I look forward to your contribution about respect and society.......
a couple of posts have said words to the effect of this sorry affair being a stitch up but not a conspiracy.
The whistle blower who stepped forward in the last week, and also a policeman is reported to have given evidence of exactly that - a plan to make an example of Mitchell that was actually discussed some time before it happened and led by the officers actually involved in the subsequent staged event.
If this isn't a conspiracy I'm not sure what is.
Oh and if it needs to be said, the vast majority of my encounters with the police have been very positive (the only negative incident I can think of was dealt with very well when I complained about it), so I'm far from a police hater here. I just don't think that all the positive things they do gives them an excuse to be corrupt when they are - if anything they must be held to a much higher standard than the general public. It really is a sad day when it turns out that a Tory politician is actually more truthful than the police.
Oh, and if anything ISTM the worst thing about this whole affair isn't the lying of the officers directly involved, nor even the lying of those higher ranking officers who interviewed Mr Mitchell, but the way in which the forces closed rank and didn't accept that they had a case to answer even when presented with clear cut evidence of their deceit. You do start to get the impression that as good and honorable as the individual officers might be, there is a systemic issue of covering up wrongdoing inside the force.
well david davies has just come on Newsnight and slagged off the police said they had a deep institutional problem (with lying)of course hes good friends with mitchell- he supported davies leadership attempt, possibly why cameron was so quick to dump him...?
Interesting implied ad-hom there, given as it turns out Mitchell has (mostly) been telling the truth. Are you claiming that there isn't a deep institutional problem with lying - as grum points out this is far from the first occasion where there's been an institutional cover up? Clearly it's unfortunate that on previous occasions the police's lying has suited the politicians.
im in no way denying that theres have been many cases of police lying and corruption, only a fool would deny it!
my own dealings have found some police to be very poor
I just thought it was very strong language to use, basically calling into question the integrity of every police officer in the country
Im not sure whether he wants to provoke a wider response from the police (federation)?
andymc06 - Member
The idea that police planned to set up an mp with malicious evidence due to their own agenda is ridiculous.
Well I hope you are right but that's not how it looks here does it?
What disgusts me is the complete lack of appreciation of what it is police do for a livin.
I don't see how that follows. Yes, there are a few barbs on here (but hey, it's STW) but I think most people are generally supportive of the police which is why the reaction to events like this is generally pretty forceful. The whole episode is pretty much who behaved worst in a catalogue of unsavoury events. And the winner is.....not hard to see.
Not sure how being unpleasant to people is likely to win them or others over though Andy?
robdixon, not aware of that whistle blower- links?
I just thought it was very strong language to use, basically calling into question the integrity of every police officer in the country
Was it? I'll have to iPlayer as I've not seen it, but ISTM quite possible to suggest institutional problems without tarring every individual officer. Maybe he didn't do as good a job of combining the criticism of the institution with praise of the individual as most here are trying to do.
Im not sure whether he wants to provoke a wider response from the police (federation)?
More than likely - I'm sure politicians have an agenda just as much as some police officers do.
ISTM ?
andymc06...Jamj1974 what contributory job do you do? I look forward to your contribution about respect and society.......
Thanks for reinforcing my point. I'm not a policeman - so obviously it's not a worthwhile job in your eyes. It's not so much about what you do but [i][b]how[/b][/i] you do it perhaps...?
Currently I am a management consultant - own my own business. Funnily enough I have helped save lives - of strangers and of a colleague and of a friend. Four people in total. The two strangers were in separate incidents being brutally attacked when I intervened. My colleague was a medical emergency and I stopped my friend from committing suicide. Oh and as a small child I revived my dad who was on the point of entering diabetic coma. Is that enough...?
Management consultant? I look forward to casting sweeping generalisations based on limited facts about your career. Oh that's right. I wouldn't be so conceited as to do that knowing so little about your job......
I really don't understand why you are asking about lives saved.I am a retired nurse worked in acute medicine for 30 years,I probably saved hundreds of lives,I don't know,how do you define saved?I don't understand why you think saving lives means that you are an important person,whose lying and bullying and conspiring must be accepted,I saved lives because I was there and it was my job,I'm no hero.
Management consultant? I look forward to casting sweeping generalisations based on limited facts about your career. Oh that's right. I wouldn't be so conceited as to do that knowing so little about your job......
I knew it was coming, and finally it's time. Here's a nice smiley one for you:
[img] 
[/img]
I'm not making sweeping generalisations based on your job. I'm commenting on your confrontational and frankly disrespectful posting here on this thread. I suggested that if you used the same approach for your job as you've used here - it wouldn't be positive. I hope you are more positive in your interactions offline.
I've never been a police officer - but a couple of my childhood friends are officers and we are still friends now so they talk a bit about it. I would say I have a small idea - but nothing extensive or deep.
especially for grum
I wonder whether he had quite such a problem with the police lying when it was about striking miners, or dead Liverpool fans.
watch this and see what you think
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23128129
Hmmm. Thanks for not reading any of the thread. How many times do i have to repeat that dishonest
Cops and mp's should be sacked. I DO NOT agree with any of them and at what point did I say lying and bullying should be tollerated??? What I take exception to is keyboard warriors (management consultants and the like) casting judgement about things they have never experienced!)
tge - it seems to me you need to try using google.
thejesmonddingo - Member
I was there and it was my job,I'm no hero.
Well I'm grateful you did it anyway!
What I take exception to is keyboard warriors (management consultants amd the like) casting judgement about things they have never experienced!)
Would you like another pic, andy - I can do a less smiley one if you prefer?
andymc06 a word of advice,when you're in the bottom of a hole,stop digging.
No. I'm fine. Thanks anyway. 🙂
(And I'm not in a hole nurse).
aracer - ISWYDT
Thanks
What I take exception to is keyboard warriors (management consultants amd the like) casting judgement about things they have never experienced!)
Notice I've not commented on policing - just your approach here. That's because I know little about policing (as a management consultant - I wouldn't.) but I do know how you've presented yourself today. In fact I
would probably agree with your point regarding corruption but I take issue with how you've gone about reducing the value of what others have said.
watch this and see what you think
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23128129
Mr Davies appears to have a real issue with dishonesty in the police - he should get a life.
Interestingly in that clip he does start off by pointing out that most police officers are honest and doing a good job (iplayer doesn't yet have newsnight from tonight 👿 )
