reggiegasket - Membera model is necessary for clothes to be displayed on
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I find it interesting that there are so many people indulging in a hand-wringing exercise in getting offended on behalf of other people, in this case women who happen to be both attractive and intelligent, and suggesting that those people should be banned from being paid well to do a job that they seem to enjoy, on the basis that they find those jobs demeaning, which I can't help but feel is both patronising and sexist.
I would have no issue with a daughter of mine, were I to actually have a daughter, choosing to do any damned job she chose to do, the only proviso being the job is safe and doesn't expose her to any risks outside what would be acceptable in any workplace; this I think covers ransos incessant repeating the same sodding quote, in that I wouldn't be happy with porn or prostitution [i]because[/i] of the clear risk to health and safety!
Being a podium girl isn't a great deal different to being an attractive female singer in a band, which results in being objectified by male gig-goers, and, from my many years of gig-going, a very significant number of female gig-goers.
There have been certain gigs I've been to featuring female artists where you couldn't get near the front because it was all packed with girls, so the objectivisation is clearly equal-opportunity here!
This situation is even recognised by the term 'Sleeper bloke', from the band Sleeper, where Louise Wenner was the main object of attention, the rest of the band being merely a bunch of blokes there to provide backing.
It went even further with theaudience, where the male members of the band got fed up of being ignored in favour of their singer, one Sophie Ellis-Bextor, so got rid of her.
Wherefore art thou now, theaudience?
podium girls are pointless
But they carry the flowers and the cuddly toy lion!
The debate, therefore, is around what we deem to be acceptable rather than some absolutist right. Or as theotherjonv puts it:
In that case, it seems lots of folk do find podium girls acceptable. Including, quite crucially, the podium girls themselves.
Turns out the debate was quite simple in the end.
Personally speaking, if porn and prostitution was legislated and therefore subject to H&S I would sleep better at night regardless of whether my daughter chose either as a career choice.
Maybe if people spent less time worrying about what people did with their bodies and more time on getting other folk to respect them we wouldn't need to have this debate.
Personally speaking, if porn and prostitution was legislated and therefore subject to H&S
Kneepads and safety goggles?
[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/peta-slammed-for-70sstyle-sexism-and-ambush-marketing-after-hiring-bikiniclad-women-to-hand-out-a3579106.html ]Right on, sisters.[/url]
I'm kinda torn on this.
On the one hand, my inner feminist is against the blatant objectification of women. "Podium girls" feels to me to be something that should have gone the way of Gene Hunt.
On the other, the liberal part of my brain thinks that denying that both women and men are sexual creatures and that finding someone aesthetically pleasing is somehow to be condemned is something dragging us back to Victorian times. Elsewhere on STW right now we're discussing whether it's appropriate for your children to see you naked.
I guess maybe, the issue is one of balance. These people are models, and modelling as a career goes back decades for both sexes. If your son got a job with Cartier to model wris****ches it's not because he's got a Chemistry degree, it's because he's pretty / hunky / otherwise physically attractive. Yet I don't see people anywhere coming out of the woodwork to demonise the objectification of men, or campaigning to ban the Chippendales.
I was about to write about how being viewed as a great set of abs / boobs isn't healthy but now I've suddenly just realised; it's not the model that's the problem is it, rather it's the viewer. We all have our strengths, be that intelligence, power, speed, strategy... or beauty. Why should we devalue that if that's someone's greatest asset? Why is that something we should be shamed into being less proud of or bullied into not taking advantage of? We get whatever dice rolls we're born with, you can't choose to be clever any more than you can choose to be pretty.
No, the problem is that there's a subset of men - mostly men, though I've encountered sufficient hen parties to know it's not an exclusive trait - who look at a member of their preferred sex and think it's ok to shout across the street "bloody hell, look at the arse on that, I bet you bang like a shithouse door!"
So the issue then is respect, isn't it. It's the line - and really, it should be more of a motorway - between being able to look at a pretty girl / guy and think "oh, she's pretty" and extrapolating that into them just being there to be used for our gratification. And so the solution isn't banning podium girls, it's teaching young people (ok, primarily men) not to grow up to be disrespectful arseholes. Oh, and get some podium boys in too whilst you're at it.
Cougar, earlier....
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I've never experienced sexism in bike shops.
I have. Went into a popular high street chain to buy a bike. My OH, who a) was the one buying the bike and b) at the time knew more about the subject than me asked loads of questions, and the sales guy told me all the answers.
this I think covers ransos incessant repeating the same sodding quote, in that I wouldn't be happy with porn or prostitution because of the clear risk to health and safety!
I think the big difference here is that these ladies are choosing this career. I'm far from an expert but I'd have thought that most (but of course not all) prostitutes instead "fall" into the profession. I expect that little Tamsin, 14, from Bristol is far more likely to have "model" as a career aspiration than "prostitute."
In UFC when there is a womens weigh-in or womens fight they still have "podium girls" walking round in bikinis. It looks daft, I dont like it. In the TdF I'm not so bothered, they've got clothes on, they're doing a job but I guess if I were to vote I'd say get rid.
In UFC when there is a womens weigh-in or womens fight they still have "podium girls" walking round in bikinis. It looks daft, I dont like it. In the TdF I'm not so bothered, they've got clothes on, they're doing a job but I guess if I were to vote I'd say get rid.
Just watch Rizin. They have women and...erm...I want to say men?
Yes men and women could wear cup noodle outfits and that would be fair.
I'd be happy with my daughter being a podium girl. If she was fit but thiick as shite, like.
Yes men and women could wear cup noodle outfits and that would be fair.
As long as we can see the noodle's package, then I'm onboard with that.
I'd be happy with my daughter being a podium girl. If she was fit but thiick as shite, like.
What if she was fit and intelligent?
Dani Pedrosa has been using 'Brella Fella's for a while now.
if I recall correctly there's more than one Moto GP rider that has their wife next to them. I seem to recall Lucy Crutchlow on the grid with Cal.... Could be wrong mind....
I think I'm wrong, but....
I miss the Maxxis babes 🙁
(More seriously, to go all flag-waving-outraged on a forum is actually a bit naff. Women nowadays have voices, choices and don't need you lot to say what's good for them).
As above, I can't really get too worked up about it. One for the professionally offended I think.
I do wish other ladies would comment. 🙂
Considering these are possibly the best athletes in the world; would it be appropriate for an average looking girl to be kissing them on the cheek and handing them a bunch of flowers?
Only if it's Sagan. 😉
Sorry, CG. Been a bit busy.
😀 I don't think Sagan cares, whatever he can get a hold of!
[i]What if she was fit and intelligent?[/i]
Sales
(More seriously, to go all flag-waving-outraged on a forum is actually a bit naff. Women nowadays have voices, choices and don't need you lot to say what's good for them).
Rather the point I was trying to make, maybe a bit clumsily, perhaps.
Considering these are possibly the best athletes in the world; would it be appropriate for an average looking girl to be kissing them on the cheek and handing them a bunch of flowers?
actual lol 😆
One for the professionally offended I think. `
I think this idea that anyone who thinks we should sack off podium girls is 'offended', or wants to ban anything they don't agree with, or wishes to dictate to women what they should do with their bodies, yak yak yak, is lazy thinking (and rather ignores what people are actually saying. The only people mentioning banning are the ones slapping down the idea of banning).
You don't need to be 'offended' by podium girls to find the whole concept a bit embarrassing and think we should probably give up. In the same way that you may find it slightly depressing that Jim Davidson still has a career, but that's not necessarily because you 'can't handle it' or want to censor him. It's just because it's tedious old guff.
So the issue then is respect, isn't it. It's the line - and really, it should be more of a motorway - between being able to look at a pretty girl / guy and think "oh, she's pretty" and extrapolating that into them just being there to be used for our gratification. And so the solution isn't banning podium girls, it's teaching young people (ok, primarily men) not to grow up to be disrespectful arseholes.
This is right but - as you say, we still need to teach people - we're not there yet. There is still a huge imbalance in gender power relations. And until we do get to something approaching genuine equality, paying some interchangeable nameless trophy girls (note they're never referred to as podium women) to simper and fawn over famous millionaire men is going to look a bit cringey. And a bit bollocks.
And it doesn't need to be banned but shelving it for a little while might help the UCI look like it is taking women a bit more seriously.
So the issue then is respect, isn't it. It's the line - and really, it should be more of a motorway - between being able to look at a pretty girl / guy and think "oh, she's pretty" and extrapolating that into them just being there to be used for our gratification. And so the solution isn't banning podium girls, it's teaching young people (ok, primarily men) not to grow up to be disrespectful arseholes. Oh, and get some podium boys in too whilst you're at it.
Um, not respect (cos I find that word is so over-used that it's become meaningless) but rather treating others as you would wish to be treated yourself. You know, some women can be just as guilty of leering but the difference could be that they don't shout 'nice ar$e' etc.
No problem with podium boys so long as they don't look as though they've walked off the Love Island set. 🙂
You don't need to be 'offended' by podium girls to find the whole concept a bit embarrassing and think we should probably give up. In the same way that you may find it slightly depressing that Jim Davidson still has a career, but that's not necessarily because you 'can't handle it' or want to censor him. It's just because it's tedious old guff.
Absolutely agree, it's just that the ones who seem to want to bang on and on about it seem to enjoy having some thing to get upset about.
They should bring back Page Free an all.
I might sit through the bordem of lycra men on racers if there are some chicks at the end.
I might sit through the bordem of lycra men on racers if there are some chicks at the end.
Yup, makes it all worth it doesn't it?!
Also worth popping to your nearest Littlewoods, get hold of a free catalogue. The lingerie section is something else!
I don't see people anywhere coming out of the woodwork to demonise the objectification of men
Give it a few millenniums of us being the underclass and "weaker gender" and it might just happen.
Seriously you cannot think the two are equivalent- the objectification of women and men is just not a fair comparison.
Like you I am torn if they want to do it is there choice but the fact they are asked is down to men wanting it and its just not needed.
I would not be having podium girls were i ever to be organising an awards night YMMV
You don't need to be 'offended' by podium girls to find the whole concept a bit embarrassing and think we should probably give up. In the same way that you may find it slightly depressing that Jim Davidson still has a career, but that's not necessarily because you 'can't handle it' or want to censor him. It's just because it's tedious old guff.
This is it. The stage ceremonies are total bobbins and need shaking up. Bin the birds - add nothing to it. Rider and their bike are elevated on to the stage by rising hidden platform to music of their choice. A bit of dry ice. A massive screen behind them showing the money shot of them being awsums. Quick interview on stage about how god like they were by someone with personality. No random podium girls, no flowers, no stupid lion cuddly toy, no line up of awkward looking great and the good of TDF stage right.
We live in a time (and place) where women have absolute social, economic and political agency and are more than capable of using the abundant legal recourse available to them if there is any exploitation or abuse.
The problem with stating that and assuming the job is done is the gulf between theory and reality, as demonstrated by the gender pay gap.
As had been said above, it's not something that should be [i]banned[/i], but something that the organisers should just choose not to keep on doing.
Fine, the girls up there have chosen to be there, are being paid, etc etc. The issue is the fact that it's yet another little signal to [b]all the other girls[/b] especially the young ones that that's the way things should be: chaps do heroic things, you just stand there looking pretty.
I'd rather the dozens of everyday-sexism hints weren't thrown in the faces of our kids: this seems like an easy one to fix.
Without trawling through five pages, could someone please post an image, or even better - a collection, or gallery, if you will of these 'podium girls'?
I can then come to an informed opinion with which to join the discourse.
Thanks.
Query: Who actually watches cycling on the Telly?
Who actually watches cycling on the Telly?
Not many worldwide. Official figures put it around the 4....billion*. About the same as Countdown I recon.
*it seems a funny way of counting but if you watch it every day for 3 weeks you would be 21 of the 4 billion. So it's only really 175 million people a day so a tiny figure hardly worth counting.
CountZero - Member
I find it interesting that there are so many people indulging in a hand-wringing exercise in getting offended on behalf of other people, in this case women who happen to be both attractive and intelligent, and suggesting that those people should be banned from being paid well to do a job that they seem to enjoy, on the basis that they find those jobs demeaning, which I can't help but feel is both patronising and sexist.
Offended isnt the right word, all the way back the page 1 where there was a great explanation from tour down under and South Australia, they stopped hiring them because it went against all the other things they were doing. Of all the women involved in TdF 99% of those you will see are podium girls.
Not the team people, docs, physios etc. It's saying we ignore this and the only ones who are important do nothing say nothing and look nice. It's just sad.
I'd much prefer local junior riders be up there on some sort of merit.
If all the podiums/grid girls are banned, what are they going to do? 😯
Um, not respect (cos I find that word is so over-used that it's become meaningless) but rather treating others as you would wish to be treated yourself. You know, some women can be just as guilty of leering but the difference could be that they don't shout 'nice ar$e' etc.
So... that's exactly "respect" then, no? Those "some women" are appreciating the male form, but are managing not to make it personal, not to make it invasive or aggressive.
chewkw - Member
If all the podiums/grid girls are banned, what are they going to do?
Help you with your mealtimes and potty training.
Perhaps having podium girls in niqab is the compromise solution?
