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No I know. I favour Veritas stuff, because I find their designs just a little more 'thoughtful' than other premium brands, yet just the same excellent quality. Got a whole bunch of powertools; Festool, Bosch (Green and Blue), DeWalt, etc. Some proper dirt cheap LiDL/ALDI stuff too. It is true that 'you get what you pay for', largely; if you want consistency of results, then you learn that that generally comes more easily the more you spend. But one of my favourite tools is a little Japanese 'Dozuki' saw, which is so versatile and useful, and I think only about £25. It gets used a lot more often than the £1200+ router and table set up. But then; when you need that quality result, having the good stuff is such a bonus. My Festool TS55 gives perfect results, every single time. That bit better in the bearings, that bit better fit all round. Just makes for a better tool.
Bye heck, that must be some sort of Japanese samurai chisel!
I do sort of feel power tools and modern fixings instead of hand tools and well made dovetails/tenons/whatever is cheating. I can only ever hope to cheat though 😀 I consider my Stanley number 5 a quality hand tool,... It's limited by me, rather then me by it.
Depends on what you're trying to achieve; putting together some kitchen cabinets, then powertools, pocket hole jigs, dominos etc all the way. If you're making 'bespoke hand-made furniture', then powertools only for things like thicknessing, band-sawing, ripping timber, drilling etc, cos doing those things by hand sucks any joy out of it, and hand tools for the joinery and fiddly bits. I'll often sand by hand, because power sanders can be a bit too coarse/violent, and a more delicate touch is required. I'm much more of a 'means to an end' type of maker, so powertools where appropriate, get the job finished rather than take seven years to make a small table. Do love doing a dovetail by hand though. So satisfying. But very often, just grabbing a hand tool like a plane, chisel, saw etc, is much quicker than setting up powertools.
I bought an Aldi (rebadged Scheppach) about 3 years ago and found I was using it more and more. Recently I had some overtime at work and used the dosh to buy a Mafell MT55 which was very spendy and a bit of an extravagance that I didn't really need. It cuts so nice though, I keep looking for jobs to do so I can use it!
This is getting annoying. Replacement rails arrived, also bowed. One is very very nearly straight but no, it still lifts at the end and the other needs to go back anyway so both will. One more try. If the next one's aren't straight I'll get my money back and buy Makita I think.
That Mimi peanut jig.... And a 1/2" hikoki router are tempting me.
I bought an Aldi (rebadged Scheppach) about 3 years ago and found I was using it more and more. Recently I had some overtime at work and used the dosh to buy a Mafell MT55 which was very spendy and a bit of an extravagance that I didn’t really need. It cuts so nice though, I keep looking for jobs to do so I can use it!
From one extreme to the other!
Spent this morning knocking up a mobile MFT table - hadn’t occurred to me until I saw the pictures of other people’s set up , but it’s the perfect way to create the work area I need for a couple of DIY projects. I need to trim some ply offcuts to make strips to level up the work surface at each end, but other than that, it’s good to go.
From one extreme to the other!
🤣
@footflaps yeah it was a bit! There was nothing wrong with the Aldi saw and I've done loads of work with it, including making my kitchen cupboard doors. I couldn't find any longer rails to fit it as I only had the two 700mm that came with it and they were getting on my tits as the join was a bit naff. Once you got them aligned properly though the saw was great, especially with a 48t Freud blade in it. The build quality of the Mafell is something else though, its like driving a top end car after you've been driving a bangernomic special.
...as for the MFT I bought a plywood jig (can't remember who off?) and cut loads of holes in my garage workbench.
Very nice, ditch jockey. I would pop a couple of dowels in each end of the MFT to stop it falling into the void as you slide it left and right. And the level's a bit superfluous. Just adjust the legs till it stops wobbling. I also use the strips at each end to act as supports, but I also pop a couple of screws through into the CLS because it's annoying when you slide things left and right and they fall off. Just take the screws out when you pack away. I use short lengths like yours for most work but have a couple of 2400 lengths of CLS when making wardrobes from the 2800 lengths that I buy.
Make sure you've got a support on the waste side so the offcut doesn't fall at the end of the cut.
Is the festool mft1080 worth a punt ?
May have the option of a Second hand one.
This is getting annoying. Replacement rails arrived, also bowed. One is very very nearly straight but no, it still lifts at the end and the other needs to go back anyway so both will. One more try. If the next one’s aren’t straight I’ll get my money back and buy Makita I think.
Buy cheap, buy twice...
It's for this reason, I invest in good tools. A good quality tool is something you'll want to use again and again. A poor quality one, something you don't want to use so ends up being quite redundant. And therefore, poor value for money. I'd rather buy a quality tool and sell it after I've done with it, if I'm only going to use it once/a limited number of times, than something cheap and nasty, with no residual value.
The build quality of the Mafell is something else though, its like driving a top end car after you’ve been driving a bangernomic special.
This. Using quality tools, in this case power tools, makes so much difference. The higher build quality/manufacturing tolerances mean there will be less vibration, for example, leading to easier and more comfortable use. Higher quality steel in blades means they last longer, and cut cleaner. I had to use a lower end DeWalt chop saw recently, and it was awful; I'm so used to the good stuff, that it just felt horrid. Poor quality results, mainly from excessive lay in the bearings, so not the level of accuracy I normally require. Did the job, but not very well. And it hasn't been sued all that much; it's just a 'consumer' level tool for occasional DIYers, so adequate for just that.
The Excel rails are supposed to be good I thought. I think the seller, or courier has mistreated them.
That's entirely possible, but thats the risk buying cheap stuff off the internet. Which is why I don't, personally. With anything over a few quid, I much prefer to buy from a trusted, 'bricks and mortar' source, as getting something sorted is just that much easier I've found. As for brands; I look at what gets used by various professionals, day in, day out, and ask their opinions. I've been on a very small budget, and had to shop wisely for tools, and been pleasantly surprised with how good some cheap stuff really is (Bosch Green; far better than you'd expect it to be, overall). Your rails could have been bent in transit, but again, they could just be crap to start with. Get some decent ones and save yourself the headache.
I don’t want to start a new topic for this and this thread seems to be all about diy woodworking - and this question is appropriate my Aldi (yes) router has packed up - only used for simple stuff, as I’m not that proficient with it yet.
Looking at replacing it with a cordless one (without spending loads) - any recommendations?
I’ve got makita and ryobi batteries
I've the makita RT0700 , and that comes in cordless version, so if your batteries are the same interface thats a possible.
The cordless version is model number DRT50Z basic cost is about £150, but i would strongly recommend getting the plunge base with it, as the simple trimmer base gives it a pretty high center of gravity and with only half the already small baseplate on the workpiece I found it has a tendency to want to tip over. Its about 200 with trimmer and added plunge base.
However. The corded version with all 3 bases is only a bit over £200, and that at least has the power of mains behind it, and a router will draw a fair amount of power in use. Besides, its really only going to get used near a power socket anyway.
As you state you are on a budget I would suggest researching the Katsu 18v router from Aim tools on the auction site and reviews online.
As you state you are on a budget I would suggest researching the Katsu 18v router from Aim tools on the auction site and reviews online.
Thanks, that takes makita batteries ! The router and plunge base for £112 ! Looks like an exact copy of the makita drt50z.
There's a few YouTube videos comparing it to the real deal if you want to check but it seems to come out pretty favourably. It's actually quite expensive for Chinese made Makita copies so hopefully that means something
I've got the Makita cordless router which I love.
I've also got the Katsu one but corded.
Really impressed with it actually.
I tend to just leave one cutter in it set up as it's cheap enough.
I've got a genuine Makita plunge base which fits either and is excellent quality and a couple of cheap Makitalike bases that are good but not as high in quality.
I'd probably favour corded if you're doing more heavy work.
I’ve got the Makita cordless router which I love.
I’ve also got the Katsu one but corded.
Really impressed with it actually.
I tend to just leave one cutter in it set up as it’s cheap enough.
I’ve got a genuine Makita plunge base which fits either and is excellent quality and a couple of cheap Makitalike bases that are good but not as high in quality.
I’d probably favour corded if you’re doing more heavy work.
I am a total newbie to the world of routers, what kind of stuff would be “heavy work” & would a cordless unit not be up to the task for certain jobs ?
Firstly , routers need a bit of respect from a safety point of view, please
take care , especially the direction of cut and dust extraction.
Effectively most battery powered routers have been used hand held for smaller cutters , it takes experience and practice - practice is essential before attacking the masterpiece!
Larger more powerful machines 1/2" collet are heavy , more stable but can accept large cutters that are intended for use with the machine mounted under a router table.
Pay attention to collet/cutter sizes - they need to match exactly , your Aldi machine likely came with 6mm and 8mm , neither are 1/4" compatible , actually 8mm is a significant improvement in strength over 1/4"
There are lots of resources online to research, these machines demand a calm steady approach for decent results, no quick anything until you have some experience hands on.
Firstly , routers need a bit of respect from a safety point of view, please
take care , especially the direction of cut and dust extraction.
Yeah, sleeves up when using one. Last thing you want is a cuff of your jumper to become entangled in the 18,000 rpm razor sharp cutter.
The dust extractor is not only for the lungs(wood dust is toxic, and many hardwood timbers are carcinogenic) it keeps what you're cutting free from shavings and makes it all easier to see, which is a plus point concerning safety.
Buy a book. This is good because info is readily to hand, no waiting for someone to answer a query and just going ahead anyway because it seems obvious.
eg -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384213232070?epid=88929414&hash=item5974e4a9c6:g:hnwAAOSw4HRgxduX
@dyna-ti thanks will take a look at that.
@finishthat - Just checked the Aldi router and it had 6mm & 8mm collets. I just used the bits it came with !
Some good advice there that I haven’t really considered, I may have to buy a corded model or the Katsu cordless model, so I can budget for a dust extractor vacuum.
I really haven’t got a scooby what to look for in a corded router. My default position is makita on power tools, I e found them to just be really reliable. 1/2” router, as opposed to the 6mm, or 8mm models.
I've had a 'performance power' b and q keen brand 1/4" router for going on 20 years and it has been great. Admittedly it's not heavily used but for it's cost is been far better than expected. I have recently been looking at a 1/2", and think it'll be the hikoki/Hitachi m12ve. Not the fanciest and proper sturdy and half the price of the big Makita or DeWalt. That is unless I see some super bargain on one of those.
@Neilnevil
One of the problems with the cheap routers is accuracy. The base isnt centered to the cutter.
How this effects it in the real world is when you rotate the machine the bit can cut at a further or lesser distance from the edge. For accurate routing the bit must be exactly centered.
Also you can find the bit isnt exactly in the vertical plane, which again is down to the cheaply made base.
Bases can be warped and so rock side to side causing more inaccuracies in the cut, the plunge action instead of being smooth is jerky, plunge depth and all other aspects are standardized with other cheaply made machines, all are the minimums.
The motor isnt rated for any sort of heavy continuous work, so has the risk of overheating and burning out. Sure ok maybe for some jobs, and if occasionally used, but if you need to rely on it, it just hasn't the quality and attention to detail a 'pro' model has.
It's the same with everything from household appliances to bicycle parts. Cheap is cheap and for a reason.
You get what you pay for.
Katsu has a fair reputation and ive not seen many complaints about it. General consensus in workshop forums is its effectively the same as the makita RTO700 etc, it's so nearly identical most believe its from the same factory.
Rutlands is doing its own branded version. Chances are it is the katsu rebranded.
https://www.rutlands.com/pp+routing-routers-1-4-routers+c24101
The hikoki is a trade/pro tool, well made and made for heavy use. It's drawbacks are more lacking finesse...no fine adjustment on depth stop or fence, and a slightly shorter plunge. Ideal for simple but hard work like kitchen worktops, a bit less so for fine work. Although a big heavy 2+kW machine and fine work need a table often anyway.
What a good mid range router then ? Not pro, not necessarily cordless.
This erbauer looks ok for 90 quid and 1/2” ? https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-er2100-2100w-electric-router-220-240v/535fx
Looked at the Makita and Hikoki but big money for the casual DIYer. And the Festool - Jesus Christ how much ?
Festool is cheap compared to a Shaper Origin, which is about £3K. Origin is a handheld CNC router, a really fancy bit of kit
https://store-eu.shapertools.com/
What a good mid range router then ? Not pro, not necessarily cordless.
This erbauer looks ok for 90 quid and 1/2” ?
the erbauer will do everything you need. As screwfix’s own brand Erbouer has always been pretty good value for money.
with 1/2” routers in particular the mid-price range (the big names - makita, dewalt, trend) have some pretty poor machines- well made, but decades old designs. Important modern features like effective dust extraction come as fiddly fragile bolt-ons that obstruct you view and get in the way of cutter changes and end up lost or broken- it should really be integrated into the design rather than be some stupid clip-on afterthought. They’ll be a bit tougher than the erbauer but that’s all.
the festool routers are expensive but only really a little bit pricier than the major brands - they are light years better though.. Safer, cleaner, quicker, easier and more comfortable to use. If you are paid for you time then the time they save you makes them more than worthwhile. I really would have thought they’d have encouraged the other brands to up their game too but that’s not really happened.
I bought that Erbauer router a couple of years back. Thought I could get away with a cheap router when starting up as self employed.
I ended up returning it as not fit for purpose.
The body of the machine had some nasty play coming from the plunge assembly.
Horrible, inaccurate and dangerous. Perfect for diy! 😉
I swapped it for a Triton TRA001 which I had endless troubles with.
I'm not joking when I say I must have swapped the machine 4-5 times until I got one that didn't instantly sound like the bearings were going to come flying out at 100mph.
The Triton is unrefined for sure but it's powerful. The auto spindle lock is good until it plays up, then it's a total mare.
I've got rid of the Triton now for my table router and got a big Trend T11
It's so much better and inspires confidence in use, rather than terror!
Buy cheap, buy twice.
I swear I never learn that, despite having it confirmed regularly!
You cant go wrong with trend, they make good routers, though the small 1/4" isnt good for any sort of longevity.
To counter the Triton. I've no idea why this has been brought up, thought OP was looking for a small easy to use 1/4" for occasional use, not a 6 1/2kg, 3 1/4 HP beast.
.
I've also got that one(TRA001), one of 4 we bought for the last workshop i was in and my personal 1/2" and ive not had a problem in the 15 years Ive used it. I use it handheld and in my router table and it does have some very nice features, and a few downsides.
It was last used with and 80mm panel raising bit and did it in its stride.
Pros -
Powerful enough to use any size of cutter, especially when mounted.
Has a nifty safety cover over the switch so you cant accidentally switch on, this cover is spring loaded so when you press off the cover snaps over the button to enclose it.-unique to triton
Cover is linked to the spindle lock so when its in the on position, even if unplugged it cannot engage the lock.-unique to triton
The main spring is easily released so when inverted you arent fighting against it trying to raise or lower it.- Unique to triton.
Plunge facility can be spring plunge or wound up and down via a gear on one of the handles-Unique to triton.
Usual soft start, electronic speed control.
Cons -
No base fitting for guide bushings
No facility for through base fine height adjuster.(on the TRA001)
Overall in my humble opinion I think the triton beats trend on the features. Both are big and powerful and fit for trade use. Both cost the same @£259
I’m not joking when I say I must have swapped the machine 4-5 times until I got one that didn’t instantly sound like the bearings were going to come flying out at 100mph.
😕
To counter the Triton. I’ve no idea why this has been brought up, thought OP was looking for a small easy to use 1/4″
Somebody asked.
What a good mid range router then ? Not pro, not necessarily cordless.
This erbauer looks ok for 90 quid and 1/2” ?
I agree, the Triton has a lot of unique features. I liked a lot of things about it. Unfortunately I've had a lot of issues with mine so have decided to call it quits on that particular router.
I still regularly use the cheaper Jof001 1/2" Triton, which is my hand-held 1/2" but having to spend extra on a special base to be able to take standard guide bushes and the fact that every time I want to remove a cutter I have to plunge it, rotate the nut until I feel a click (of the spindle lock engaging more fully) then plunge it the last 4mm or so to get a proper spindle lock, means I'll be replacing it when funds allow.
Great idea, but yeah, I've had issues with that spindle lock.
The fully enclosed cutter area is fantastic in terms of safety and the included dust port is very handy, but it actually really obscures vision I find and often struggle to see exactly where my cutter is against a pencil mark or whatever.
Well maybe its time for me to step out and take another look at another 1/2" for handheld use. The tra lives in the router table, and its always a pain dismounting it.
the festool routers are expensive but only really a little bit pricier than the major brands – they are light years better though.. Safer, cleaner, quicker, easier and more comfortable to use. If you are paid for you time then the time they save you makes them more than worthwhile. I really would have thought they’d have encouraged the other brands to up their game too but that’s not really happened.
Festool are significantly more expensive than most other brands, and are excellent ( I have the Festool 55mm plunge saw). But the routers are either relatively low powered, and an awkward style for some (right hand handle sticks out, so problematic if trying to install in a table), or really bloody expensive for the OF2200. Not the easiest to install in a table, although they really do excel in Festool's own track/guide systems. Most router-using professionals I know use other brands. I personally use a Bosch GMF 1600, which comes with both plunge and fixed bases; the fixed base lives in my router table, and it is quick and easy to swap over to the plunge base for 'freehand' work. Tried a couple of Trends, but they never quite live up to expectations for me. Always a little niggle with Trend stuff.
I'd echo above comments regarding quality. I want something I can trust, that doesn't suddenly shatter sending a 20,000+ rpm bit spinning towards my face or other appendages. Cheap routers scare the life out of me. As for cordless routers, I can't imagine using one for any prolonged length of time, without the battery dying. Perhaps good for lighter work like edge rounding etc. Corded every time for me though.
Thanks for the replies.
Now I’m really not sure what to get. My old man always told me to buy the best tools you can afford, buy cheap pay twice etc, after a lifetime in a garage and probably spending way too much on snap on gear.
I don’t need bells and whistles, but I cannot stand buying something that breaks after a few weeks/months and I have now acquired an old router table ! So it would be good if it worked on that, I’d rather buy one that does it all. I don’t have funds to buy corded router, vacuum and cordless router. Obviously I’d like to as new nice shiny tools are always good, but I suspect I don’t really need to.
Despite the issues I had, I'd still say the Triton is a good machine if you want something for hand held and table routing.
It lends itself very well to table mounting and it's sturdy in the hand.
Add in the fact that Screwfix are very good at sorting any issues with what they sell and it's a good buy.
I've still got a Triton router, but I keep it in a Makita box so nobody knows! 😉
I certainly wouldn't go out and spend Festool money unless you know exactly why you're spending that extra money.
The only Festool tools I own are tools that currently nobody else does, such as the Domino jointer.
Everything else is imho overpriced and often different for the sake of it.
Many don't agree with that of course 😊
When you've got a spare £40 knocking about, get a corded Katsu too. Great for smaller fiddly work where a bigger router can be cumbersome.
the Domino jointer.
Show off 😆 😆
Actually I'd love a domino jointer, but so expensive, I just have to make do with a biscuit jointer 🙁
There is no does it all router unfortunately , however if you have a table then getting something that is good for table use is a good idea, the Triton is well suited for that application.
Most folks who use them regularly seem to end up with with more than one, due to setup times and size extremes.
Thinking about what you will really use it for is the key, I think there are 3 main branches of use:
1- Freehand "trim" - 1/4" Katsu style.
2- Template routing with a guide - 1/4" Trend T5 1000w + 1/2" big jobs worktop etc with a heavy duty power machine 2000w types.
3- Table router - Jobs that need accuracy and speed - All of the above depending on size of job - but mostly 1/2" router that lies in the table.
Katsu sold a neat table mount for their small router , but its for tiny work.
Edit - Festool - the sanders dust extraction is really really good , been sanding an old desk inside at home with an RTS400 orbital sander hooked up to a vac , and it is astonishing how little dust escapes. ( I buy broken/faulty tools and fix them - so commonly the bearings clog in these sanders after about 10 years pro use, so I have 3 I fixed myself )
Wow the Trend T11 looks good, well out of my budget ! Not that the Triton is much in budget either.
Unless I go secondhand via fleabay.
If you really want a 1/2", maybe opt for a trend T7. About £115
https://trenddirectuk.com/trend-t7ek-2100w-1-2-variable-speed-router-240v-uk-sale-only.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwfa5taqQ8wIVRoBQBh1twQqMEAQYAyABEgLDhfD_BwE
Wow the Trend T11 looks good, well out of my budget ! Not that the Triton is much in budget either.
Personally, I think that 'saving' money here is perhaps not the best policy; as others have mentioned, cheaper tools tend to be less accurate and consistent. A router is exactly the kind of tool you need to be really accurate and consistent. That Trend T7 is really the baseline for a reasonable, useable router in my opinion.
Second hand is possible , a gamble but with a bit of research/luck and knowing what bits should come with it, its possible to find lightly used ones.
Things like collets can be extremely expensive for some routers.
Spares may not be available for some too.
For cheap and capable try Ryobi - the old stuff is pro level, and Freud , they sold a 2000w 1/2" model and there are a few about quite cheap.
110v is also fine if you have a transformer or can pick one up cheaply,
just make sure they are variable speed .
the Domino jointer.
Show off 😆 😆
Actually I’d love a domino jointer, but so expensive, I just have to make do with a biscuit jointer 🙁
I was lucky enough to find a bloke selling the smaller one for about £350 as he was upgrading to the bigger version.
It certainly would have hurt paying what they cost now 😳
Different tools though. There's a lot of things I favour the biscuiter over the Dominoer.
@finishthat thanks for the breakdown.
@kayak23 thanks for the advice.
Had a look around and I can get a deal via the eBay discount on a brand new Trend T10 for 220, or a T11 for 250, which is a lot of money (and way more than I’d budgeted, but in fairness I didn’t really appreciate the implications & limitations on buying cheap) but if I never ever have to buy another one in my lifetime, then it’ll be worth doing.
My dad called today and we chatted about this and unsurprisingly I got the expected advice, don’t buy the cheap one - it’s likely to go bang just when you really need it most and then you’ll go buy the one you’re looking at now, only you’ll have to pay full retail to get it quickly.