[Closed] Plodgate - the anti-tory brigades get their comeuppance

footflaps - Member

Ah, so it was Labour who caused the worldwide financial debt crisis. Thanks for clearing that up, there was general worldwide confusion on that one.....

Are you suggesting that Labour's financial policies were an improvement?
😕

footflaps - Member

The amazing thing is how no end of Plebs go out their way to defend a party whose sole aim is to exploit/screw over the Plebs for their own financial gain. Turkeys voting for Christmas and all that....

If that statement is correct, then why was I, someone who earned less than average (indeed by the standards of some on here I'd be considered poor!), financially better off under the tory party?

yossarian - Member
Grassroots labour supporters aspire to help everyone in society regardless of status.

Unless they're a Tory supporter.......?

Are you suggesting that Labour's financial policies were an improvement?

No, they could have reduced the damage to the UK banks by improving regulation, but the general trend of deregulation was a Thatcher policy which every party since has continued to a a greater or lesser extent. It all went wrong when banks were no longer required to deposit money on demand with the BoE to constrain lending so as to keep a lit on inflation, we had the 80s boom and bust, 90s boom and bust, 00s boom and bust, 10s boom and bust, etc.

Labour are far from perfect, but generally Plebs do better under them than under Tories, which is why I just don't get why so many Plebs line up in their millions to support a bunch of Toffs whose only use for a Pleb is to use one to wipe their arse with.

If that statement is correct, then why was I, someone who earned less than average (indeed by the standards of some on here I'd be considered poor!), financially better off under the tory party?

Benefit cheat? Tax dodger? Sex slave?

financially better off under the tory party?

How do you know you actually are / were? As you could have been even better off had the other party been in charge. Unconstrained lending / economic expansion lines everyone's pockets and makes us all feel rich. Problem is when the bubble bursts what happens? Millions of plebs lose their jobs, houses, have benefits cut, whilst the rich get richer. You might be lucky and survive a recession without losing your job, but millions didn't.

What has he done which is so tittish?

Privatising the NHS.
Disproportionate cutting of council budgets in the more deprived local authority areas versus the Tory-led councils in the south-east.
Getting rid of Legal Aid.
Allowing the banks - who were a major cause of the mess we're in - to get away with doing f*** all to recompense the country for their misdemeanours.
Changing the housing benefits system which will mean single people under 35 will have difficulty getting a place of their own, as well as promoting the social cleansing of parts of London.
Giving the richest people tax breaks.
Not providing any stimulus for business or the economy.
etc.
etc.
etc.

jota180 - Member

The utter bastards, I never knew that

I see you selectively edited my post and changed the premise "attended a private school" to "attended one very specific private school" because you are ill equipped to reply without moving the goalposts.

Thanks for that, I now know to file your replies under W, forthwith.
😉

i) Don't forget - this is noting to do with proper coppers, it was all about DPG (doors, porches and gates)

ii) Its only the chippy reverse snob class warriors and layabout wasters who have a real problem with what the Tories are doing, everyone else thinks the public sector has got fat and bloated at the expense of the rest of us, and that people who won't take a job that they think is beneath them can go and F themselves

iii) If Cameron is Jesus Christ - that means Maggie was the Blessed Virgin Mary 😀

iv) [img] ?w=480&h=282[/img]

Zulu-Eleven - Member

i) Don't forget - this is noting to do with proper coppers, it was all about DPG (doors, porches and gates)

So 'proper' coppers never lie or fabricate evidence?
History would seem to be against you.

everyone else thinks the public sector has got fat and bloated at the expense of the rest of us,

You mean that's what the Daily Mail told you....

😉

So 'proper' coppers never lie or fabricate evidence?

Not against white english people.

A large pubic sector, like the large Military establishment in the US, is the perfect economic buffer against free market boom and busts. It allows the government to borrow and spend to counter the dips in the private sector. The US have a smaller public sector, but a massive military spend, which performs the same role as our public sector.

Take that all away and the boom and busts are just magnified.....

Yay look who's come out from under his bridge with more devastating political insight!

The sole reason the Tory's exist is to protect the interests of a narrow elite, at the expense of the rest of us. Pure and simple.

Like the latest 'settlement' for local councils. For the northern cities - yet more crippling cuts. For the Tory voting, rich, leafy shires - no cuts at all.

We could possibly live with this if, as they take it out on the poorest in society ie: the disabled, they could at least try and pretend they weren't enjoying it so much!

If that statement is correct, then why was I, someone who earned less than average (indeed by the standards of some on here I'd be considered poor!), financially better off under the tory party?

You're not. Its that simple. For a start, the rise in VAT is essentially an income tax rise of 2.5%, except a pure income tax rise would hit everyone. A VAT rise disproportionately impacts on the poorest, hardest. While the top 10% of earners have their tax reduced. We're all in it together though. Honest

footflaps - Member

Labour are far from perfect, but generally Plebs do better under them than under Tories, which is why I just don't get why so many Plebs line up in their millions to support a bunch of Toffs whose only use for a Pleb is to use one to wipe their arse with.

Depends how you define "plebs" (you do realise some would find that term quite offensive?).

If you define "plebs" as the lower earners, then you are completely wrong and have fallen for the big labour fallacy.
If you define "plebs" as those that don't earn, then yes, they are better off under labour, know this, and vote for them.
Look at the Scottish and Welsh Labour strongholds and then have a look to see how many of their voters are claiming dole or on the sick.

What's that?
Way, way above the national average!
Quel surprise! 😆

(Sarcasm so binners feels at home)

Just how "narrow" is this elite exactly?

32.4% narrow? or are they all christmas-loving turkeys?

The sole reason the Tory's exist is to protect the interests of a narrow elite, at the expense of the rest of us. Pure and simple.

Would that be the narrow elite who pay the majority of the tax?

[img] [/img]

Which sort of undermines the [i]at the expense of the rest of us[/i] jibe doesn't is 🙄

Sbob - Did you read all that in a Sun editorial?

How anyone who isn't in the top 10% bracket can come to the conclusion that they're better off, would suggest you're what the Tory's view as a 'useful idiot'. Voting for them despite it being clearly against your interest to do so. As pointed out - Turkeys voting for christmas

Z-11. As usual you're selective, and/or dodgily sourced statistics are meaningless

Would that be the narrow elite who pay the majority of the tax?

majority of INCOME tax.

binners - Member

You're not. Its that simple.

No, I really was.
This is comparing how financially well off I was at the end of the conservative party's last term in office, to the beginning of Labours.

Not comparing parties from decades apart.

Labour did put up income tax, they just called it something else.

Depends how you define "plebs"

Personally I define it as anyone who has to work for a living rather than having inherited / married into money.

This is comparing how financially well off I was at the end of the conservative party's last term in office, to the beginning of Labours.

Do you define 'how financially well off' as just gross / net pay or weigh on all the benefits from society - state of NHS, roads, pensions, crime, schools etc.

Eg you might get a 5% pay rise, but you local schools get a 20% funding cut to pay for it. Tories would chose that, Labour would chose the other way round....

Sbob - Did you read all that in a Sun editorial?

How anyone who isn't in the top 10% bracket can come to the conclusion that they're better off, would suggest you're what the Tory's view as a 'useful idiot'. Voting for them despite it being clearly against your interest to do so. As pointed out - Turkeys voting for christmas

It's a simple fact that I was better off.
The fact that you have to resort to ad hominem means that I can now comfortably file your posts with jota's. 🙂

Labour did put up income tax, they just called it something else.

Really? Examples please? Any how it compares to the tories gift of a 2.5% VAT rise, That's clearly made you that bit richer?

It's a simple fact that I was better off.

Well as long as [i]you're[/i] ok, thats ok then. And, in a nutshell, you sum up perfectly your Tory philosophy 🙄

Z-11. As usual you're selective, and/or dodgily sourced statistics are meaningless

C'mon then Binners - which group pays the vast majority of tax, the ones that the Tories are looking after, or the ones that Labour are looking after?

its a fairly simple question!

In ultimate amounts... the richest pay the most, obviously. As they have vastly more to tax, as our society becomes more and more polarised.

As a proportion of income? .... well that's a different matter altogether, isn't it?

In ultimate amounts... the richest pay the most, obviously. As they have vastly more to tax, as our society becomes more and more polarised.

But its an accepted fact that the gap between rich and poor grew actually under labour, correct?

OK, regardless, now imagine if the evil Tory voters weren't paying all that lovely tax money, where would your beloved public services be then?

Ever heard of killing the goose that laid the golden egg?

That not really the point is it? The point is that, as a proportion of income (which lets face it, is the only 'real' benchmark) the poorest in society are being deliberately targeted to pay more, while those at the top are asked to contribute less and less

Eg you might get a 5% pay rise, but you local schools get a 20% funding cut to pay for it.

Tories would chose that, Labour would chose [s]the other way round[/s] [b]both[/b]....

FIFY 😉

That not really the point is it? The point is that, as a proportion of income (which lets face it, is the only 'real' benchmark) the poorest in society are being deliberately targeted to pay more, while those at the top are asked to contribute less and less

significantly more low paid people now don't pay income tax on their earnings than did under Labour

And lets not forget Gordon getting rid of the 10% tax rate, shall we!

binners - Member

Well as long as you're ok, thats ok then. And, in a nutshell, you sum up perfectly your Tory philosophy

But I'm one of those people that was meant to be better off under Labour, according to the anti-Tory lobby!

You can use your imagination to insert the turbo belm photo here.

significantly more low paid people now don't pay income tax on their earnings than did under Labour

is that because there's now more significantly low paid people?

footflaps - Member

Do you define 'how financially well off' as just gross / net pay or weigh on all the benefits from society - state of NHS, roads, pensions, crime, schools etc.

Eg you might get a 5% pay rise, but you local schools get a 20% funding cut to pay for it. Tories would chose that, Labour would chose the other way round....

Like Labours famous education for all policy?

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/9180/14-09-2001/scrap-fees-restore-the-grant

There are none so blind...

At what point did I start defending the record of the labour party?

just the lesser of two evils IMHO, and presently as good as useless

I just find it offensive what the Tory's are doing. My better half works in the charity sector, and I see the effect daily, of Tory cuts impacting on the day to day existence of the disabled, and the most vulnerable in society. The casual inhumanity of it truly scandalous. And monumentally depressing

And ultimately, its all to fund tax breaks to those who have the most

A recent Tory policy review meeting caught on camera....

Is this a late entry for (comedy) thread of the year?

Is this a late entry for (comedy) thread of the year?

It's no Mammal Top Trumps, I can tell you! 🙂

binners massive +1 to that last post.

It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that people who don't care about such things are just poor quality human beings.

It's no Mammal Top Trumps, I can tell you!

True, but you can't beat a bit of Mitchell and Webb......

is that because there's now more significantly low paid people?

You've heard of the personal allowance?

Have a look at the figures!

its all to fund tax breaks to those who have the most

Shall we look at that one again?

[img] ?w=480&h=216[/img]

I'm not going to defend the current Tory party, why would I?
Perhaps people need to go back and read my first post in this thread before marking me down as a tory fanboy, and look at what point I was making.
Then read binners' first post which proves it. 😆

I've always regarded Tory's as the naturally selfish, who couldn't really care less about those less fortunate than themselves

Cheers to the various contributors to this thread who've demonstrated just how wrong I was. I'm a bit embarrassed about my former opinions. Sorry

[img] [/img]

Well some do say he is a vengeful God...