[Closed] Please tell me what no fly zones mean.

are we gonna roll in for 'regime change'?

Looks like a German, Italian and French coalition to me...

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I must have missed the bit where we used harriers and tornados to bomb innocent protesting civilians.

We didn't, but then what evidence do you have the Gadaffi has? They aren't actually that effective in a counter insurgency role anyway. What he has been doing however is taking out his own arms dumps to stop them being used by the rebels. That apart, we did use helicopters in NI (they fly too you know) and did you miss the bit about bloody Sunday when we shot innocent protestors? The irony being that those actions exacerbated the conflict and eventually drove the IRA to seek external support from the likes of Gaddafi, who apparently saw them as freedom fighters against an oppressive colonial government.

The overall point being that one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, and its not for us to decide which is which were it doesn't concern us directly. Personally, I think we should keep our noses well out of it, except insomuch that we might chose to contribute in a humanitarian sense.

I thought the accusation centred heavily on French supplied Mirage F1s ?

Lybia has ordered Russian replacements

we might chose to contribute in a humanitarian sense

To stop people being killed you mean?

LHS - Member

Russian does not support Gaddafi

Hmmm, I must have mis-read that $1.8billion arms deal that they signed last year!

What a stupid comment - why would Russia be unable to sell arms to a "non-Gaddafi" Libya ?

And as already suggested :

[url= http://www.indiatalkies.com/2011/02/libyan-forces-western-arms-deal-anti-gaddafi-protestors-eu.html ]Libyan forces using western arms to deal with anti- Gaddafi protestors: EU[/url]

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/01/eu-arms-exports-libya ]EU arms exports to Libya: who armed Gaddafi?[/url]

So using the same logic, does the EU support Gaddafi ?

Or doesn't it work like that ?

why would Russia be unable to sell arms to a "non-Gaddafi" Libya ?

Hmmm, maybe, just maybe Gaddafi's successor might not be a lunatic who is willing to spend so much on arms. Just a thought.

So using the same logic, does the EU support Gaddafi ?

Yes, until he stops giving them what they want, OR, he murders his own people live on CNN which would mean that the international community has no choice but to call him a lunatic and call for him to stand down.

maybe Gaddafi's successor might not be a lunatic who is willing to spend so much on arms.

So its only "lunatics" who are willing to spend so much on arms ?

And how much do you think Libya spends on arms ?

According to the CIA it's 3.90 of GDP, which is less than the US.

And the top military spending countries in the world are :

1 Oman 11.40 GDP

2 Qatar 10.00 GDP

3 Saudi Arabia 10.00 GDP

4 Iraq 8.60 GDP

5 Jordan 8.60 GDP

6 Israel 7.30 GDP

7 Yemen 6.60 GDP

All pro US/Western regimes.

Try not to make things up LHS 💡

Man you're up tight.

Try providing arms spending against GDP / record of human rights people living below the poverty line etc etc

We didn't, but then what evidence do you have the Gadaffi has? They aren't actually that effective in a counter insurgency role anyway.

bloody Sunday when we shot innocent protestors?

Man you're up tight.

Is that how you refer to someone who prefers to rely on silly "facts" rather than made up stuff ?

Try providing arms spending against GDP / record of human rights people living below the poverty line etc etc

Well I did compare "arms spending against GDP" ...... so what are you on about ?

Of course we could talk about Libyans having one of the highest GDPs per capita in Africa. The highest literacy rate in Africa - 90% (10% when Gaddifi first came to power) The lowest infant mortality rate in Africa. The highest Human Development in Africa according to the United Nations. How the average Libyan now lives 20 years older than when Gaddifi first came to power......that's sort of thing - is that what you meant ?

Yep waisting even more money we have got.

I agree - we should be spending it closer to home - the education system perhaps.

That apart, we did use helicopters in NI (they fly too you know) and did you miss the bit about bloody Sunday when we shot innocent protestors?

We used helicopters to fly the NI police around - support to civil forces. Are you saying that we can't learn and have grown up since the 70s? Really - try and move on.

Not really silly facts though are they.

You just listed a whole load of war mongering countries with poor human rights records for comparison.

Do you even know what your point is?

You just listed a whole load of war mongering countries with poor human rights records for comparison.

So who were you comparing Libya with then ?

[b][i]Do you even know what your point is? [/i][/b]

BTW, I had no idea that Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Jordan, were "warmongers". Nor did I know that Israel and Iraq were officially regarded as having "poor human rights records".

Although I did know that all those countries are best mates with the US and Britain. But not Russia btw.

Repeating the question. Genius.

I'll take that as a no!

Well I did ask you "So who were you comparing Libya with then ?"

Which you clearly haven't answered.

So yeah, it seems pretty obvious to me that you didn't know what you were talking about or what you were trying to say.

BTW [u]my point[/u] was that Libya doesn't particularly spend a lot of money on defence - specially for a country in that region. Something which you appeared to be presenting as a fact. Even though it's false.

Wow, thanks for the info guys, I'm going to take a step back now as it's all gone a bit out of my depth! Interesting reading though.

Cheers

[i]Wow, thanks for the info guys, I'm going to take a step back now as it's all gone a bit out of my depth! Interesting reading though.

Cheers [/i]

dont worry everyone here is out of their depth but any excuse for some righteous laying down of the law in stw land

LOL again. I take it that you were there?

No, and I'm kind of sad that you weren't either. 😉

And why might that be?

The big benefit of a no-fly zone is we get to destroy the expensive military assets of a country.

Then the 'grateful' rebels get into power and buy new aircraft from us.

The likely reason we haven't tried to create a no-fly zone so far is probably because the 'grateful' rebels aren't toeing our line yet.

Or is that too cynical? 🙂

Ugly Charlesbronsonalike use planes that are noisey at both ends, rather than just the back, on people who cant run away quick enough or make noiseyness back

NFZ stop ugly man from using planes.

he sounds like a bit of a ****, but then so do all politicians.

all was MUCH more civilised when 'er majesty owned everybody (honest ;-))

the 'grateful' rebels aren't toeing our line yet.

Too right they ain't...........haven't they read the script ffs ?

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Kicking out 007 and his team was well out of order.......cheeky ****ers

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