I signed it
But there's no way the Tories will have a GE until the latest possible moment
My MP is Chris Philp - part of the mad trio.
If I wrote him a letter I might risk prosecution under the Malicious Communications Act.
"You seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” with Tony Blair……"
The fact that Brown was going to replace Blair mid-term was laid out clearly to the electorate at the 2005 GE, so it wasn't really a gentlemen's agreement was it? It was a proposal put to the electorate fair and square and the public went for it.
Absolutely no comparison. This is more like a coup.
I thought everyone knew by now, it isn't the government's fault or even the previous government's fault.
It's the next one 🙄
177.5k and rising at speed!
I have just realised that the OPs petition has nothing to do with Liz Truss's premiership nor Kwasi Kwarteng's mini budget. It was started when Boris Johnson was still PM.
A fresh petition which refers to recent events, rather than events of a couple of months ago, needs to be started.
The current one has to be at least considered for debate in the House of Commons as it has reached 100k signatures, although it will presumably be dismissed as no longer relevant.
However the government's response, which they are obliged to give when a petition reaches 10k, bizarrely refers to the change of government which the petition doesn't appear to:
"A change in the leader of the governing party does not trigger a general election – this has been the case under governments of successive political colours."
If my maths is correct, Johnson would have agreed to resign 2 weeks before the petition was started, so the assumption would be its really moaning about not getting a say in the new Conservative leader and therefore PM or (probably and IMHO) the person who started the petition wanted a GE whilst the cons, didn't have a leader.
Following the wording mind I'd have to surmise the crisis which precipitated the petition was the the ministers thing and the general paralysis of everything whilst we all waited for the Conservative leadership election, what with nothing else on that list being new. Of course the paralysis was a symptom of the resignations, not cause, and wouldn't have been any better if we had a GE.
The obvious crisis was the list of leadership candidates but they don't actually reference that.
From the official response to the petition:
"The United Kingdom is a Parliamentary democracy, not a Presidential one."
Excellent. Now, tell us again about referendums, "the will of the people" and UK democracy?
I have just realised that the OPs petition has nothing to do with Liz Truss’s premiership nor Kwasi Kwarteng’s mini budget. It was started when Boris Johnson was still PM.
Meh, still relevant I reckon it's the same party with most of the same prominent faces at the top. They've just shuffled about a bit, it's not like Liz or Kwassi weren't part of that previous government...
And I certainly don't think the UK having a conservative government today is any better than it was back in June.
Do they represent the interests of the majority of the electorate right now?
I would suggest they really don't...
And I certainly don’t think the UK having a conservative government today is any better than it was back in June
I'm going to hazard a guess you'd have been of the same opinion immediately after the last GE though, that's not grounds to have another election. You can't keep asking until you get the answer you like.
Do they represent the interests of the majority of the electorate right now?
I would suggest they really don’t…
And they didn't last year either, nor would any other likely outcome of elections in the UK. Without a shift to PR your very unlikely to get any government that does.
I'm surprised no one on here hasn't started a petition rejoin the EU.
Leave Truss where she is, a bit more rope & she'll hang herself anyway.
it’s not like Liz or Kwassi weren’t part of that previous government…
It's not the change of personality that is the issue, it's the change of economic and political direction which is the issue.
The previous government could reasonably claim to have a mandate from the electorate for their policies, such as 'leveling up', ban on fracking, and other manifesto commitments.
Truss's government new economic and political direction cannot claim to have the same mandate for scrapping the top rate of taxation, removing the bankers bonuses cap, ignoring the OBR, and all the other issues which have resulted in the current crises.
The Chancellor has openly admitted that this is a new era and a new direction. They need a new mandate for that and if they aren't prepared to put their new policies to the British people then the petition should be calling for that.
Oh I've documented my bias in this thread and all over STW, I've never been a staunch Tory. You can take most of my statements as rhetorical, but these things need to keep being put anyway, its all part of the rich and informative exchange of views and perspectives that makes the internet such a pleasant and enriching experience... 😉
And you're right no government will ever be fully representative, but it's fair to say it's a sliding scale rather than a binary thing. We're currently at the wrong end of that scale (IMO).
TBH I don't believe we'll get another election, a switch to PR is even more unlikely, but you need to keep chipping away if you think either would do us some good.
I’ve never been a staunch Tory.
In that case I'm not sure you're allowed on here, I'm pretty sure it's a staunch Tory only membership policy.
Whatever happened to fixed-term parliaments, eh?
Signed
144000 so far
Posted 9 hours ago
It's now over 206000. My calculator reckons that's about 115 per minute.
raincloud
Free MemberYou seem to have forgotten the fact Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007 through an unopposed election and some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” with Tony Blair……
I remember it well, so I know how completely irrelevant it is. Brown was a continuation candidate and progressed with the same policies and manifesto which he'd played such a huge part in writing. Truss is the absolute spectacular opposite.
My calculator reckons that’s about 115 per minute.
So in about 6 months time that’ll be half the population.
There is hope.
Signed.
next general election is end of 2024
300000. Making progress.
Signed, and I'm usually Apolitical.
Signed. I don't think it will do anything, but it will do more than not signing it.
Signed.
Signed!
Don't forget to share!
Over 400000 . Sign and share.
The one to revoke Brexit got over 6M signatures...
https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/241584
I would be interested to see some stats on the conversion rates for these petitions.
Looks like it will hit half a million soon
495,154 signatures
Ignore - signed.
Over half a million now.
Interesting line in the longer govt response explaining why we can’t have an election…
In her speech of 6 September 2022, the new Prime Minister set out three early priorities: to grow Britain’s economy, deal with the energy crisis caused by Putin’s war, and putting the national health service on a firm footing.
And use of the Oxford comma, when talking about the health service 😂
Monday could be interesting.
Monday could beinteresting.
I fear that you might be disappointed. The debate won't even occur in the Chamber it will be in the Westminster Hall and there won't be any sort of vote
https://whatson.parliament.uk/commons/2022-10-17/
I predict no more than about 4 MPs in attendance, with possibly one being a lost and confused drunk Tory.
The petition was nevertheless worth it imo, it appears to have been covered by most newspapers and it keeps the topic of an early general election and the "no one voted for this" argument in the public domain.
Bit like the whinging Scots isn't it? Didn't like the result so we'll ask for another one. Suck it up. Good or bad, all governments (and more to the point the voters) should have the right to see their choice give it a go.
No chance what so ever that any other partyu would do any better.
We have a country living beyond its means, just like many an individual.
No chance what so ever that any other partyu would do any better.
You reckon?
There's only one way to really find out...
should have the right to see their choice give it a go.
Liz Truss and her policies were no one's choice other 81,000 Tory Party members. The 46 million registered voters in the UK weren't asked their opinion.
We have a country living beyond its means
What do you mean by "beyond its means"? And have you got some evidence to back up your claim?
No rush, I'll put the kettle on.
I'd take a flying guess he means a large percentage of the country living off borrowed money for their chosen lifestyles
Or the odd couple of trillion pounds we owe, apart from that, nope no debt here
I’d take a flying guess he means a large percentage of the country living off borrowed money for their chosen lifestyles
Apparently not because the full sentence reads:
We have a country living beyond its means, just like many an individual.
So the country and many individuals are living beyond their means, apparently.
How is the country living beyond its means? What does that actually mean? Budgetary deficit?
Pretty much, as a country our lifestyle consumes more value than it generates, we have sustained it by borrowing. Choices made by the current government have accelerated the point at which it ceases to be sustainable.
I predict no more than about 4 MPs in attendance, with possibly one being a lost and confused drunk Tory.
I dunno.
Whilst often they do end up being mostly a waste of time with most mps not caring and so leaving it to the paid off lackeys (eg the grouse shooting one) in this case I cant see many turning up in defence (better to be silent than look an idiot) and plenty of opposition mps reckoning its worth a laugh.
In the grand scheme of things wont achieve much since I assume the tories will just about muster enough to silently downvote it but will be awkward for them.
Might drop Michael Green an email asking him his opinion on it.
Choices made by the current government have accelerated the point at which it ceases to be sustainable.
So time for a general election then.
I assume the tories will just about muster enough to silently downvote it but will be awkward for them.
There is no divisions in Westminster Hall debates.
I'm not even sure how many can fit in the Westminster Hall.
It turns out that Westminster Hall debates don't even usually happen in the Hall but in smaller committee rooms.
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/what-is-a-westminster-hall-debate/
