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Ongoing mass shooti...
 

[Closed] Ongoing mass shooting in USA, Odessa.

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This mindset about personal protection even if the result is my kid gets accidentally shot , where does it come from ?

The problem is gum crime is common in the USA. They have lots of guns. Lots of people get killed by people with guns. The best way to avoid being shot is to shoot the attacker first. So people buy more guns. The criminals get more guns because they need them to shoot other criminals, who have guns and to rob non-criminals, who have guns. Do you see the pattern?

I have worked with a lot of Americans. I am currently in Houston now. In the same State as the shooting, no-one has even mentioned the shooting.

The vast majority, in Texas, own guns. Quite often a lot of guns and huge quantities of ammunition.

I know someone who lives in New Orleans, not the worst part or the best part. He owns a pump action shotgun and a pistol. Purely for self defence. It his honest belief, that if the local criminals knew you had no weapons, they would come into your house and rob you at gunpoint, or worse.

It's a perfect storm of lots of guns, drugs, poverty and massive wealth differential. These random shootings are just the price they have to pay to "defend" themselves.

It's never going to change, the genie is out of the bottle.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 4:59 pm
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gobuchul

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The best way to avoid being shot is to shoot the attacker first.

It's not. Gun crime is high, but you're still more likely to shoot yourself, a family member, or a bystander with your own gun or likewise be the victim of one of these negligent discharges, than you are to be shot by an attacker. And the likelihood of succesfully defending yourself with your own gun is not high- and no wonder, your attacker comes to the scene ready and primed, gun in hand. You are thinking about dinner, or boobs, or something and your gun's not in your hand. And most gun owners never make the effort to become competent with their gun anyway, which is every bit as important as buying it.

So, by owning a gun you increase the risk of being shot with your own gun or shooting the wrong person from 0 to many, and you really don't do much about the risk of being shot by an attacker.

I appreciate that this isn't the thought process people go through- it's totally understandable to be irrational about it, and to want to take control of your destiny and "protect yourself and your family" but in reality it's not really like that. The difference between "common sense" and reality is always a hard one to cross.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 5:21 pm
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It’s not. Gun crime is high, but you’re still more likely to shoot yourself, a family member, or a bystander with your own gun or likewise be the victim of one of these negligent discharges, than you are to be shot by an attacker.

I'm sure you're right. However, my post was written to describe the thought process that creates that mindset.

The other side is that a lot of the gun obsessed Americans I know, would argue that they are very unlikely to have a negligent discharge as they take their "hobby" very seriously. A lot are ex-military who have been trained to handle weapons, others go hunting or to the range frequently. They would argue that it's going to be the doped up criminal or the nervous, middle class dad with his .38 pistol, who will make mistakes.

Just to clarify, I don't think the gun laws in the USA are sensible and that gun ownership is not a problem. It definitely is. I just don't believe it will ever change no matter how many get gunned down.

The other argument I have heard from them is that gun control makes no difference, Anders Behring Breivik was in Norway. They have strict gun controls, didn't stop him murdering 77 people.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 5:44 pm
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I think we'll see more and more mass shootings in the us. Higher numbers killed.. higher frequencies of them. The pressure on law makers will mount but for now they're running with thoughts and prayers successfully.

Desperate.

What annoys me most is the unwillingness to just take the most ridiculous weapons off the table for consumers. thats shit.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 7:13 pm
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Powerful jacinda ardern would see them right.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 7:15 pm
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I think we’ll see more and more mass shootings in the us. Higher numbers killed.. higher frequencies of them

Read this...

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

I think the quote was they have had more mass shootings this year than days


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 7:42 pm
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What annoys me most is the unwillingness to just take the most ridiculous weapons off the table for consumers. thats shit.

Why does it annoy you?

There are many more people getting killed throughout the rest of the world.

Why do Americans matter - why is it that dead Americans get forum posts all the time, where as others barely register?


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 8:15 pm
 Drac
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Perhaps because it's possible to be annoyed at more than one thing.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 8:45 pm
 kcr
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The other argument I have heard from them is that gun control makes no difference, Anders Behring Breivik was in Norway. They have strict gun controls, didn’t stop him murdering 77 people.

Possibly the easiest argument in the world to shoot down?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:10 pm
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Rayban.. all injustices annoy me. I dont think an American born child is more deserving of being shot in the face than a Mexican child is. That would be pretty weird right?


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:14 pm
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Perhaps because it’s possible to be annoyed at more than one thing.

Nah. People choose what to get annoyed about, as there is too much shit in the world to care about it all and because most people are simple, they can only empathize if the people suffering look like them. "Oh maiii gawwd white people killing each other - I only thought that happened in bad places."

Then again, it's possible that I just have a really, really, bleak view of my fellow man. But hey.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:16 pm
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Youre trying to insinuate that im a racist, trying to put yourself on a pedastal by not caring about innocent victims of mass shootings. Weird.

Take a step back and have a look at yourself.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:21 pm
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Not at all Dirka.

I just don't get the UK's obsession with American mass shootings. It's headline news here, where as if someone explodes in a Kabul goat market it's a footnote on a website or something discussed halfway through newsnight.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:29 pm
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Agreed,

Can’t really bring myself to be shocked anymore.

You die by your sword.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:33 pm
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Of course you do.. its obvious why its newsworthy. Its a totally bonkers situation.

You were suggesting its because we sympathise with Americans more than others because of perceived racial links. Dont be shying away from what you were saying because ive called you out on it.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:35 pm
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Of course you do.. its obvious why its newsworthy. Its a totally bonkers situation.

You were suggesting its because we sympathise with Americans more than others because of perceived racial links. Dont be shying away from what you were saying because ive called you out on it.

I'm not suggesting you individually. But yes, that is my gist in terms of wider society.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:37 pm
 Drac
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You die by your sword.

Nice.


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:39 pm
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Gobuchul:

Lots of people get killed by people with guns. The best way to avoid being shot is to shoot the attacker first.

It’s *a* way to avoid it. I’d assert it’s far from the best way, but the NRA are pretty convinced we should all think it’s the best.

Trouble is that if you accept the premise and start the discussion from there it’s a long and hard road back to a moderate viewpoint. Which is of course why they’re (the NRA) pushing it so hard, and spending so much lobbying $$$ on thoughts and prayers


 
Posted : 01/09/2019 9:50 pm
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I just don’t get the UK’s obsession with American mass shootings. It’s headline news here, where as if someone explodes in a Kabul goat market it’s a footnote on a website or something discussed halfway through newsnight.

#specialrelationship
#americanexceptionalism


 
Posted : 02/09/2019 12:27 pm
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