One more time with feeling: which pizza oven?

Are there many people who've actually used both? In classic STW fashion I'll recommend what I have; a Roccbox.

Never had an issue with it, never bothered trying the wood box as gas makes a perfect pizza

Ooni Karu 12 owner here, I use wood. Do Pizza for 4 once a week, find the '12' plenty big enough. You can buy a gas attachment for the Karu 12. Can't recommend the Ooni highly enough, well built, little or no maintenance, quick sweep out every now and then. I would advise a wooden peel to launch your Pizza, then a steel one to turn / remove Pizza. Good luck, they are great fun, you'll never buy another shop bought Pizza again.

My own anecdotal research from munching many pizzas from mates who have either one of these is there can’t be much in it! 🙂🍕
RM.

A dome is a waste of money for just at home - unless you have a family of ten or will always have people round for pizza night. We have 2 domes being used commercially, you can only fit one at a time in them, and max ish size would be 10" - you need room to turn them. However, they cook in less than a minute, so with 2 running side by side, and a team of 3 or 4, we can comfortably put out 100 pizzas in an hour. But for a family of 4, the 1hr heat up (on gas, longer on wood) for a few minutes of cooking would seem a bit daft - they're designed to stay hot for a long time and used over an extended period.

I'd say for home use, gas is much easier, but at least go multi fuel if you're set on using wood, and have the gas option on standby. Literally only because we've been so happy with the Gozney quality and their service and back up, i'd say the Roccbox. I also like the fact that if you use the woodburner, it's not actually taking up space on the stone as it's a burner underneath.

I've used a Roccbox before (with the wood attachment), it was easy to use, stable temps and fun. Personally bought an ooni Karu I think. I like to use wood, but gas is easier from what I've heard.

To be honest, if you were making a business I'd have thought a couple of ovens would be practical, but most of the businesses van based options I've seen seemed to have custom solutions on trailers or in vans and usually made a selling point of 'wood-fired'.

If you buy something and decide you don't like it the secondhand market is still decent for them too.

@nickclift You can buy pizzas in shops? 😉
Occasional wood use isn't enough to justify a permanently-attached flue for me.
I always use an aluminium peel to load and unload. Quite fancy one of the perforated ones though, and need a turning peel.

@rogermoore This is the kind of valuable research I need!

@cx_monkey Interesting. Yeah, that was my thinking with the Dome too. Surprised that you can't get a bigger pizza in it though - is that because of the space the wood fire takes up, and the clearance you need from it?

Do you reckon a smaller "home" oven would retain enough heat for near-continuous cooking?

Absolutely not set on wood - in fact fairly against it, though @toby1 makes a good point about the selling point. But I'm not sure whether people are actually bothered if it's good pizza.

I've seen a pair of Roccboxs used commercially, but I think even with two people, you'd struggle to use them fully.

Good point about the second hand market - I've had a look but will probably buy new since you don't save much. But that bodes well if I change my mind.

Thanks all.

We have a kara12, have the gas burner but use wood. Its really quite easy to use, and just works.

However, we really aren't using it as much as I thought, its not the fun 'family' experience I was expecting it to be, maybe our kids are a bit too young but it all seems to be one massive rush to put toppings on before the thing sticks, chuck it in the oven and then turn it every 10 seconds else it gets nuked. Then I serve one pizza, boys devour it in seconds....trying to do batches means stuck pizzas, and they get cold rapidly as they are so thin.

We have actually yet to do it in weather where its possible to make the pizzas outside and not have to navigate a kitchen/conservatory/2 small helpers and a step...whilst trying to keep heat in the house. Probably adds to the 'fun'.

I've had a uuni/ooni 3 with gas for years, if I needed to replace today it'd probably be a Koda 12, although I love the idea of the 16 too. I keep the oven in the shed and get it out when needed (and sometimes comes away with us) so smaller and more portable is good.

Sacked off pellets pretty quick, you need someone on oven duty topping them up all the time or they don't burn properly and you end up with smoke and no heat for a bit. Gas was a game changer, just light, leave for 20 mins, start cooking.

Any "wood flavour" is mostly nonsense. They're in for 2 mins tops, even if it was smoky AF in there (and it shouldn't be) it's not enough to impart much flavour. But if you like the idea of wood, go for it. I was using a friend's Karu 12 and using wood rather than pellets was easy, nice stable heat from it - just does need more checking/topping up. A small bag of wood is more portable than a gas bottle too.

None of these small domestic ovens do well at continuous cooking - they work well when someone is prepping and cooking so the stone gets a few mins of heat to get back up to temperature. When you're running a production line it'll just get slower and slower until you need to leave it for a bit to get up to temp. The bigger and heavier your oven the less of an issue this is - hence pros either having a BIG oven or (or portable setups) multiple ovens so one can be heating up when another is used.

Have had a Karu 12 since Xmas, and used only wood so far with Ooni frozen dough balls. I've noticed that the first few cooks in Jan/Feb produced much better/crisper bases than those in Mar/Apr, despite getting the stone up to the same temps etc. I'm putting this down to the dough 'going off a bit' after say 10-12 weeks (I bought it in Nov). Am about to order some more and hoping to get those bases back on form.

Will probably get the gas adapter at some point. No rush though.

Karu 12 (and the 16) great for family and friends, but can't comment on how feasible they would be for a business.

@DT78, sounds like you just need to get a system in place and chill.

Throw some semolina on your peel when launching and turning - that'll stop your pizzas from sticking.

Stick your oven onto 100deg and pop your cooked pizzas in there if you want to keep them warm. Or use foil.

yes probably, wife in particular gets really stressed with it so its not fun. We've probably used it 6 or 7 times so far. Even the making of the dough, which I thought would be therapeutic seems to be a cause of stress, so I'm going to just buy the frozen balls.

I think we tried semolina last time instead of flour. Its the whole running around with it thing and such a short time, there is quite a distance between the kitchen and where I can set up the pizza oven safely so that isn't helping. With warmer weather I hope to be able to do it all outside which should make the whole thing easier to use.

May pick up a wooden peel as currently using a metal one. I have the gas attachment which is another thing to try - I quite like using wood though i imagine gas will make it even easier to use

What space monkey said. I make pizza in our Ooni 3 (was pellets but now gas and as its much less faff we use it nearly every week, less so in the winter) for the 5 of us. Once the 4 pizzas are made (and kept warm in the oven) mine is last in and everybody is sat down ready to go once mine comes out. Wooden peel floured then semolina/polenta and they slide into the oven without a problem. Metal peel to turn and take them out. PizzApp for the dough recipe and I use 50/50 bee/water ratio for the liquid portion, usually retard the fermentation in a fridge overnight also.

Just to add the gas is much more controllable in that you can launch the pizza, turn down the heat to ensure the base is cooked/risen then back up to full heat to finish off the top. Can't get above 450degC with gas whereas the pellets just seemed to incinerate everything at +500degC, if the wind was blowing the right direction!

@simon_g

None of these small domestic ovens do well at continuous cooking – they work well when someone is prepping and cooking so the stone gets a few mins of heat to get back up to temperature. When you’re running a production line it’ll just get slower and slower until you need to leave it for a bit to get up to temp. The bigger and heavier your oven the less of an issue this is – hence pros either having a BIG oven or (or portable setups) multiple ovens so one can be heating up when another is used.

Interesting, this was my fear. The thicker stone (19mm vs 10mm) in the Roccbox compared with the Koda 12 (or even the 15mm in the Koda 16 or Karu) should help with this. As you say, multiple ovens would help with this, and probably has some benefits over a single bigger oven too.

We've a gas powered Ooni Koda 12 and it's been great for family pizza nights. Turn on fifteen minutes before hand, prepare a pizza and put it in, whilst one is cooking the next person can prep their own.

Ooni Koda 12 here. total winner but if I was buying again Id seriously look at that RoccBox, doubt there is much in it. Gas is the way to go, way too much faff with pellets

Wooden peel with a pinch of semolina makes launching way easier! I have one like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-HOMEFAVOR-Pizza-Paddle-Spatula/dp/B075CMG9RV - they're so un-sticky that you can easily plonk the dough on it and add the toppings rather than try to transfer once it's made.

I know about the panic/faff when you've got a load of hungry people, I've resisted attempting to feed a big crowd but we did 20 between two ovens on the weekend (plus plenty of helpers making) and it worked out fine. At home I tend to get 2 or 3 done and sliced up, people can start eating then make more as you go. If you're in the "everyone makes their own" mentality then it can take ages to queue everyone up.

Premade dough is fine for getting going, the next least faff is using the breadmaker, but if you've got a stand mixer then pretty easy too. Tastes so much better with some proving time and you can experiment with longer proves and higher hydration that can stretch really well. It's something that with a bit of practice becomes far easier and less stressful.

Ooni Koda owner here.

After being given advice on here I cancelled the Frya and went for gas. Absolutely brilliant things, pizza, steak, fajitas and tikka all cooked in mine with incredible results.

I've got a 13" Cozze Pizza oven - i bought it before Christmas at our local BBQ shop after watching a demo.
Apparently they're made in the same factory as Ooni.
https://cozze-pizza.com/

I wanted Gas as didn't want the time spent faffing with pellets/wood to put me off using it.
I'm very happy with it.
I paid £200, but like everything else they've gone up a bit since.

I've noticed Robert Dyas are now selling them..
Cozze

I'll sell you my Ooni if you want it, used it once to show willing, will probably never see light of day again!

Msg me if you're interested.

Why did I read this. I now need a pizza oven...................or do I? @DT78 this sounds to me like a real life experience that would be replicated in our house. Only thing that might get me back on track is if they all can cook the variety of foods stated by @Drac ?

I had a wood pellet burning Unni 2s. Now have a Koda 12. Gas is definitely much easier

Pizza meals are more faff, I'm constantly working while everyone is chilling, but it's still good. I tend to do lots of smaller pizzas, everyone eats well because there's a constant stream of pizzas. Usually do one, chop it up and then everyone grabs a bit. Lots like that basically

Haven't had a pizza night this year, needs to fix that!

Another Roccbox owner! Ours is gas only for now, but will probably purchase the wood attachment at some point.

We did the Ooni vs Roccbox and the top choice changed on a weekly basis. I don't think you can go wrong with either. We use ours every weekend, absolutely love it.

wife in particular gets really stressed with it so its not fun.

My missus sometimes gets worked up in these situations too, so she either hangs out with whoever we have round and/or focuses on sides and other dishes.

I’m constantly working while everyone is chilling, but it’s still good

Same here, whether it's the pizza oven or BBQ. But I'm happy working at speed so long as I get my system in place. Most importantly, I enjoy cooking for other people so I'm happy to put in the effort and kind of feed myself last, or maybe snack as I go along. Main thing IMO is for everyone to feel at ease and enjoy themselves.

Don't take it too seriously, get your system in place, encourage others to help out, ie your other half, kids, friends, and crack on.

a Buffy the Vampire reference Northwind?

@DT78 - I feel your pain. I cant get the system right for whatever reason on the day. Need to take more time (al la @spacemonkey) and what @sv said is a good plan!

Once the 4 pizzas are made (and kept warm in the oven) mine is last in and everybody is sat down ready to go once mine comes out.

There's a food truck here in Edinburgh who have about 3 or so Ooni Kodas hooked up and knock out some decent pizza. Can't remember what size though.

Decent deals on these https://www.freshgrills.co.uk/ An Ooni without the scene tax.

least its not just me then!

(they do taste very nice)

kids like a a pizza base with nutella and strawberrys on top.

PizzApp for the dough recipe and I use 50/50 beer/water ratio for the liquid portion, usually retard the fermentation in a fridge overnight also.

@sv, interesting. can i ask how the 50% beer changes the kneading and prove times for the dough please? i was asked at the weekend whether id considered using beer and said 'no' as i thought the yeast in it would mess up the method, plus ive not seen one recipe that uses it which i thought would be for a reason.

A couple local to me have recently set up a pizza business based off a pair of Oonis. Looking at their pics they seem to be two different sizes, so reckon they have one Koda 12 and one Koda 16.

They seem very friendly so might be worth contacting;

@sadexpunk it seems to lighten the bread/crust and add flavour. The difference is notable and the others round the table can tell when I haven't used beer. When I say 50/50 it's normally a 330ml can made up to whatever my liquid volume/hydration % is - I make 5 balls @250g each around low 60s hydration so more like 66/34.
Proofing might take a bit longer (hard to tell as I prove overnight so it's never really been an issue) and I make my dough in an old Kenwood mixer with the dough hook.

It does take team work! Ooni on full then I stretch 3 bases onto 3 peels, my wife then tops these. These are then cooked and the Ooni left on full whilst I stretch the last 2 bases, they are then topped and I cook them. Sometimes I have a runner transferring pizzas/peels etc. To be fair it used to be hectic when we first started doing them 😅🙈 It was very useful during Covid, we also have had steaks cooked on the skillet.

Pizza meals need everyone to help. I did 8 in under 30 minutes in August.

Basically show people how to stretch them, add the base and then toppings. Run a little production line, by the time the one if the oven is done the next is ready. They can all be cooked with a few minutes of each other.

thanks @sv

so do you use the beer's own yeast and no 'normal' yeast then? or both? may have to experiment with this, sounds good.

i use this recipe which calls for a poolish to be left overnight in the fridge. do you think instead of water in the poolish, i could make this solely from beer, leave in the fridge overnight and then add it to the flour/water the next day?

Ooni Karu 12 here.

Brilliant bit of kit!  Have the gas attachment too but not used it.

I use lumpwood charcoal to get to a base temp of about 250 and then feed it little pizza logs to ramp the temp right up.  Seems to keep the temp more stable.

We have a habit of doing a double batch of dough and making extra pizza for leftovers (unless I'm extra hungry).

Pudding - stick some choc chips and double cream in a skillet and tope with marshmallows. Let the pizza oven cool to like 300C or so and get the marshmallows browned.  Place in centre of table having warned the kids it's hot and attack with biscuits.

@sadexpunk I still use an instant dried yeast addition, haven't tried a poolish with beer should be fine though.

That Cozze oven looks really well made.

@jekkyl no, that's over my head that one

@timmys that was really interesting, not just to see what ovens they're using, but their general setup/approach too. Can't believe they're doing all that with full time jobs too!

That Cozze oven looks really well made.

Its pretty solid/heavy - i'm very happy with it.
You can also buy a replacement stone for about £30 if you need it.

@benpinnick missed that before, sorry. Thanks, but pretty much decided on the Roccbox.

For those making up the pizzas every so slightly in advance (two or three on wooden peels to go in one by one), don't you find the sauce gets the base a bit too wet?

So I'd decided on a Roccbox, and it turned out there's a local dealer a couple of miles from me, so I went to have a look in the flesh and see if I could pick one up immediately. It was tempting to walk away with one, but they only had the grey one in stock, and though a fairly flimsy reason, I thought another few days wait wouldn't hurt, so asked the guy to order one in for me.

Doing some research to find a gas supplier in the meantime, I found that the Roccbox doesn't come with a flame safety device (that switches off the gas if the temperature drops because the flame has gone out), though they will supply a different burner for an extra £125 to make it suitable for commercial use (HSE regulations say it must have this function).

This put the Oonis back in the frame, since they have them as standard, and the price difference is now more significant. Having given it some more thought, I still think the Roccbox is the way to go for heavy use. Annoying though.

I wouldn't bother with the safety device for home use, it seems unnecessary since I haven't read anything to suggest the flame blowing out is a problem, but for commercial use, it seems sensible as an arse-cover.

I came across this guy in my additional research - how cool?! http://thepizzabike.co.uk/

If you have a gas BBQ, why not get an oven that sits on top? They only cost £100 and I can't see there being much difference to a lot of these standalone ovens. I used mine last year for our street party, cooking pizzas constantly for a couple of hours! It was great, although as said, you end up cooking whilst everyone chills!
I also take mine camping and stick it on top of my mates BBQ (although not quite as good without a hood).

Came on here for a nosey. We've got an Ooni Fyra 12. Faffed around all last summer with pellets. That came to a head when I let it go out 3 times when trying to feed a football team. (Beer may have been drunk). So I got a fyra gas burner and have mounted it using magnets. Game changer!
I'm also intrigued by the thought of beer in the mix so I'll be having a go at that. I'm guessing it's the usual amount of yeast plus the beer on top.
I made some stromboli last night (done in the oven not the ooni) and have been struggling with my dough. I use a dough hook in the mixer on its lowest. Run for about 8 mins but I struggle to get it to "windowpane".
Once it's proved I also find it hard to stretch out.
What am I doing wrong? Not enough mixing? Do it by hand?