So to confirm anyone's allowed to make jokes about this bar jhj?
Makes you think.
Why the need for donations? Surely the place is insured?
Guy on Radio 4 this morning who has already donated €100m to its repair.
this.But….as someone not enamoured by religion in general and organised religion specifically these huge lumps of stone stand for something I despise. Their very existence is a visual reminder of poor funding choices to honour a god rather than help the population
wonder if he also donated €100m to ease the appalling conditions at the Calais camps? Perfectly sums up the hypocrisy of this monument if not.Guy on Radio 4 this morning who has already donated €100m to its repair.
these huge lumps of stone stand for something I despise. Their very existence is a visual reminder of poor funding choices to honour a god rather than help the population
I agree with you there convert and whilst I wouldn't normally be defending JHJ, divine retribution on the catholic church for it's complicity in child abuse was one of the things that crossed my mind. (Strange that this fire is seen as a catastrophy whilst years of child abuse from the catholic church is brushed aside.)
wonder if he also donated €100m to ease the appalling conditions at the Calais camps? Perfectly sums up the hypocrisy of this monument if not.
And the whataboutery commences.
So to confirm anyone’s allowed to make jokes about this bar jhj?
It was one of random political theories not a joke.
Did quotes make my post invisible? Same thing repeated 4 times afterwards. Oh well 😆
Did quotes make my post invisible? Same thing repeated 4 times afterwards. Oh wel
Imagine how CClou feels about it.
wonder if he also donated €100m to ease the appalling conditions at the Calais camps? Perfectly sums up the hypocrisy of this monument if not.
Like it or not, it's part of the tapestry of European history. Letting that be destroyed is as terrible as letting any other historical building or artefact slide into destruction. For example, let's not forget that the building has helped to heavily shape our understanding of the development of western music.
Would you rather we do a Chairman Mao and destroy our culture and history for the cause? How did that work out for China?
There is a big difference between destruction and feeling it is necessary to reconstruct after ‘natural disaster’.
wonder if he also donated €100m to ease the appalling conditions at the Calais camps?
Didn't realise this was an either/or decision. Maybe he forgot to consider the potential new hospital wing for sick children, or the home for poorly puppies and kittens, or the potential to fund ground breaking research into dementia. Is the gesture invalid because someone doesn't champion your personal cause?
@Convert Not really, the end point is the same as we'd lose it all given that attitude.
There is a big difference between destruction and feeling it is necessary to reconstruct after ‘natural disaster’.
No not really.
No not really.And the whataboutery commences.
Just making the point that for too many of us on earth, things > people.
Utter ****ing waste of money when Paris has some of the most deprived living areas in Europe, sort out equality for all before adorning your city with pointless trinkets
libertie, egalite, fraternitie
Utter **** waste of money when Paris has some of the most deprived living areas in Europe, sort out equality for all before adorning your city with pointless trinkets
That would be the most visited monument in Paris, and a huge tourist draw? That pointless trinket you mean?
It'd make a great ruin.
There are more important things to spend/invest money & resources in.
so the most visited tourist draw in Paris has contributed exactly how much to the further raising of equality for those living on the streets of Paris ?, like I said....utter ****ing waste of money, like the Glasgow school of art....let it burn and build a modern city for all, not just a skyline and trinkets harking back to a time when religious intolerance was rife.
so the most visited tourist draw in Paris has contributed exactly how much to the further raising of equality for those living on the streets of Paris ?
Yeah, the French would be in a much better position without the yoke of the tourist industry generating money and jobs.
on the streets of Paris ?, like I said….utter **** waste of money, like the Glasgow school of art….let it burn and build a modern city for all, not just a skyline and trinkets harking back to a time when religious intolerance was rife.
How did the 1950s dream of a modernist urban utopia work out for us? Brutalism.....WHOOOOOOO!
And if you care about religious intolerance, surely remembering it is the way forward? That's like stating we should let Auschwitz burn to the ground because the holocaust was horrific.
Remember though, the human need to understand our world led to religion and then rationality. Two faces of the same human coin. Not to mention that Notre Dame was a church to the cult of reason at one point....it stands as a monument of the journey to where we are today.
so the most visited tourist draw in Paris has contributed exactly how much to the further raising of equality for those living on the streets of Paris ?, like I said….utter **** waste of money, like the Glasgow school of art….let it burn and build a modern city for all, not just a skyline and trinkets harking back to a time when religious intolerance was rife
Edit: I can't even begin to argue with such polarised views on matters.
maybe they could do a modern reconstruction?
turn it into a launch pad for Tesla spacecopters?
The Edge Lords are out in full force
If you want full on weird, the Trump fans on Twitter are already blaming dark forces (aka Muslims):
https://twitter.com/MarkTJay3/status/1118008038357635072
https://twitter.com/TrumpLadyFran/status/1117972048586743809
What would Jesus do? Spend millions rebuilding a cathedral or use the money for the poor. I think he said something along the lines that any place where you talk about me is a church.
I am not Christian but it seems horrible how far from Jesus's words (many of his general thoughts and word were and are positive messages) some people who call themselves Christians have gone where by they are so interested in symbolism.
If you want full on weird, the Trump fans on Twitter are already blaming dark forces (aka Muslims):
If I told you some Brexit supporters have been since the first reports of the fire would you be surprised?
What would Jesus do? Spend millions rebuilding a cathedral or use the money for the poor
Guessing Jesus probably wasn't that well informed about the workings of 21st century economies, and how investing millions to recover more due to tourism etc might actually help the poor more in the long run?
If I told you some Brexit supporters at have been since the first reports of the fire would you be surprised?
Shocked, I'm shocked. To the core.
Would Jesus spend millions on nuclear weapons as well?
There are plenty of other things to cut before history and culture.
There are also plenty of NGOs throwing money at the poor to little avail. At least this will create employment for little return to the investors. A 100 million donation is still a 100 million transfer of wealth to the various social classes involved with the rebuild. Keynesian economics right there.
What would Jesus do?
He’d feed the workers fish finger sandwiches.
raybanwomble, who said anything about spending money on nukes and aircraft carriers. No, spend on improving the quality of life for the homeless & underprivileged. Its what Jesus would have done*
* I really don't know this of course like you haven't a clue about what I think.
The difference of spending money on nuclear weapons or other items is that this money is never donated or claimed to be for religious for a religious casue. The money being donated to rebuild the cathedral is.
I am looking forward to visiting the Louis Vuitton Cathedral once it is rebuilt.
The money being donated to rebuild the cathedral is.
I thought the money was being donated to rebuild an item of historical and cultural importance? Also you're seeing different reports, religion seams to barely register
EDIT: FWIW if somewhere like Rosslyn Chapel was to burn down here I'd probably donate towards the rebuild, and I give zero ****s about religion
The difference of spending money on nuclear weapons or other items is that this money is never donated or claimed to be for religious for a religious casue
Hah! Weapons have never been bought for religious or political (political mass movements are religious in nature as well) purposes, like ever.
The stupidity shown in this thread is quite spectacular.
Why is every choice so binary all the time?
They could do both?
Because people.are idiots. That's why Joe.
I thought the money was being donated to rebuild an item of historical and cultural importance?
Exactly this - I am not in the slightest bit religious but I have been to churches, temples, ruins, national parks etc etc all over the world just because they are there. And why not?
If you want full on weird, the Trump fans on Twitter are already blaming dark forces (aka Muslims):
No surprise there. That bloke in the video was wearing a yellow jacket. Makes you think.
The historic, architectural and cultural significance is appreciated by all, the religious significance for those who are Christian, so I'm not dismissing the religious aspect but it's reasonable for the French state to pay for this rather than the pope (!)
As for finding the money, it can be done. Nuclear weapons are silly but they have nothing to do with it.
Throwing money at them only goes so far and there are already people doing that. This will create employment, like the Public Works Admistraion did in America during the great depression.
Exactly, just in the same way the cathedrals were built in the first place... to keep the masses busy and gainfully employed. What better way than to take a few hundred years to build a cathedral employing several generations of peasants, giving them useful skills, to keep them in check, give them jobs in a society before law and order, religion served as an effective mechanism to create some moral and societal structure and rule based living all with the ever present threat of some all powerful, all seeing, all knowing beardy bloke floating up above the clouds who would condemn you to an eternity of torment and pain in the pits of hell if you step out of line. Religion is a man-made construct created for practical purposes to serve the progress of mankind. It should have been superseded when the rule of law was invented and our current civic structures started to emerge, but so much power in the hands of a few blokes in gowns and silly hats was too much to relinquish and so we still have to suffer the scourge of religion.
Despite my opinion on religion I am in awe of the buildings and structures it created, or rather the skills and workmanship of the people Who created them, and these things are worth preserving and rebuilding. I love Paris and it would be all the poorer if they don’t rebuild it.
It will be interesting to see how it gets rebuilt - apparently an awful lot of it dated from extensive renovation done in the 19th century so one option would be to take it back to its mediaeval configuration. Personally I think it would be good to do a bit of that, a bit of the 19th c, and a bit of something more contemporary. It seems a bit unimaginative to just replicate it as was...
Apparently the rose window and the organ are OK.
Total donation by the 3 richest family in France is 500 millions euros.
A few others make total so far 600 millions.
As someone else above, could not care about religion but appreciate the building. I also hope they will include modern touches, like glass pyramid at the Louvre.
It’s a lovely building and means a lot to the French people. If individuals want to donate money for a rebuild then that’s up to them. I just like to think that God set fire to it for s laugh.
Wow. With the conceptions of God being set out on this thread, it’s no bloody wonder that STWers aren’t religious.
Good grief.