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I know it's been done over and over again, but what will it take to stop this? How many more lives must be sacrificed for the sacred amendments?
The shootings or the predictable media circus that legitimises the gunmen?
Both, though I don't get the comment about legitimising the the gunman? I don't think previous reporting, whilst stating why a nutter has done what he's done, has made a case for them being in the right?
Motor vehicles are legal here and yet some use them to kill other road users, by reducing speed with limiters or other means would save lives, yet nothing is done and most people would refuse to have a limiter fitted as they see it as their right to speed, just like owning a gun in america.
the story will occupy the media for the next few days untiol a copy cat idiot starts again to get his/her media attention
I think what this thread needs is someone to make a comparison between a car and a gun. They're clearly very alike in their intention and uses.
Everyday people die in all sort of circumstances ... 🙄
Yes they do chewy, but this is, again, someone "normal" going out with a lethal weapon and the specific intent to shoot and kill people. But different from having a piano drop on your head.
How long before we hear... 'The weapon(s) were legally held'
As was observed before - if the Sandy Hook shootings weren't enough to break the deadlock, nothing would be. It has been decided, by a majority of the US population, that all these shootings of innocents are indeed a price that can and will be (repeatedly) paid to preserve the right to bear arms, and however insane we or anyone else thinks it is, significant change is simply not going to happen.
Edit.
This guy gave advance warning too and several people were telling him the best way to kill rooms full of people on line and what weapons to use. When will America learn?
RIP to those that lost their lives today for no reason.
SSRIs .....
Nice to see the usual apologists for the US gun culture creep out of the slime again, even though most Americans [i]would[/i] support tighter controls...
Go and look in a mirror at yourselves, today of all days, look at what you are...
As Obama said after Charleston, looking tired and sick of this shit,
" “At some point, we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries.”it is in our power to do something about it. I say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now. But it would be wrong for us not to acknowledge it. And at some point it’s going to be important for the American people to come to grips with it, and for us to be able to shift how we think about the issue of gun violence collectively."
even though most Americans would support tighter controls...
The problem however is money, the gun lobby have plenty of it. Too many US politicians can't afford to upset them.
Not sure if you were suggesting I was an apologist, but I'm not - you may well be right about the majority supporting tighter controls but it doesn't seem like that to me. I'm more of a defeatist, really - I think the opposition to significant controls is just too strong to make a dent in.
I wish it wasn't so - but I believe it's mostly about power, to be self-reliant - e.g. hunting - and to defend oneself against threats both real - e.g. self defence, wild animals - and (more often) imagined - e.g. home invasions, government tyranny - and it's just so ingrained now that I don't think it can be shifted. No-one who is attracted to power wants to give it up. Legitimate reasons for gun ownership blur into appeals to tradition, paranoia and outright power fantasies, and reaching a compromise is never going to get close enough to outright banning to make a significant difference to the availability of weapons.
You can sense Obama's quiet exasperation as he no doubt looks back on failure to introduce any meaningful gun control. (Not that I blame him personally...it's an almost impossible task.)
Somehow this has become routine. The reporting is routine. My response here at this podium is routine... We’ve become numb to this.
Found on Facebook:
[url= https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/10/mass_shootings.pn g" target="_blank">https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2015/10/mass_shootings.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
I knew it was bad, but good lord that's just mental.
[img] 
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The most mental part is when you compare it to other "civilised" countries.
More than 50 shootings last weekend in Chicago. 50. One weeekend.
[url= http://heyjackass.com/ ]
Www.heyjackass.com
Motor vehicles are legal here and yet some use them to kill other road users, by reducing speed with limiters or other means would save lives,
But that is not the same is it? This shooting wasn't an accident, it was premeditated.
Speed limiters in a car would not stop someone in a car from deliberately driving into a crowd of people and killing them.
Or are you suggesting they should put power limiters on guns, so the bullets are only fired at a power that cannot piece skin?
latest news suggest it's a brit who does not like organised religion. Seems a bit mad to me listening to the radio this morning.
Some worrying stats in that Chicago link. [img] 
[/img]
Oh if only all the good guys had been carrying guns!!
😯
This *is* a major US city, not Afganistan...
[img] 
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From what I read he was born here but moved to the US very young. Not that that really matters.
I find it pretty screwed up that he apparently openly alluded to what he was going to do and, worse, he got "urged on" from some ( http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/01/oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting).
Obama seems to genuinely want to do something, unlike alot of the candidates to replace him, and I think he's wholly sincere in his exasperation. That calendar above is pretty sobering. RIP to those murdered.
Or are you suggesting they should put power limiters on guns, so the bullets are only fired at a power that cannot piece skin?
I reckon there wasn't much thought wen't into his post.
The US really needs to wake up to the issues they have with firearms and change the laws. It won't get rid of the issue overnight or altogether but it should have a big enough big impact to matter.
What gets me is that Obama not trying to ban all guns (never going to happen) but put in better/more common sense/restrictions etc on how to get a gun!
But no USA can't have that, every tom, nut job, dick and harry must be able to have a gun
Any a good/funny vid on gun control by Australian comedian Jim Jefferies (little bit sweary)
[url= http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89d_1411198955 ]Gun control[/url]
John Oliver did some interesting segments on the daily show a couple of years back.
The problem however is money, the gun lobby have plenty of it. Too many US politicians can't afford to upset them.
Didn't stop them abolishing the slave trade though, who would have thought that possible considering the money and power of the slave drivers. But you are right, too many cowards in privileged positions unwilling to do the right thing for fear of losing their meal ticket.
It's a shame that the anti-gun lobby don't have such outspoken attention seekers as the pro-gun lobby do in that dim-witted **** Donald Trump.
[quote=slowoldman]Oh if only all the good guys had been carrying guns!!
Which is pretty much what the campus pastor interviewed on the BBC said this morning.. 🙄
The statistic on gun related crime in the US are pretty sobering
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/01/obama-oregon-college-shooting-routine ]Link[/url]
This is the 994th mass shooting in three years
America’s gun problem goes deeper still: on the day of the Newtown shooting, many noted that if that had been the only shooting that day, the day’s death toll from gun violence would have been below the US average.
On average more than 30 people a day are intentional killed by firearms and that's only homicides. If you include accidents and suicides its three times higher
the OP question is how do can this be solved. I honestly dont think it can be solved. How many guns are there in the USA? Even local sheriff dont support the removal of them from society. it would take a much more massive tragic event to change peoples opinions and then the job of getting those guns off the streets would be a lifes work. Shame.
[i]Didn't stop them abolishing the slave trade though, who would have thought that possible considering the money and power of the slave drivers[/i]
Er, take it you've not heard of the US Civil War...
Guns have been a part of American culture since the wild west. Obama has no chance of changing the gun laws, infact the more he criticises them, the more pro-gun many Americans become. More people are saying this wouldn't have happened if everyone was armed. It's beyond belief.
It's a sad state of affairs and just another reminder of what a strange, foreign place the USA is.
Er, take it you've not heard of the US Civil War...
Of course I have heard of It, that wasn't the point.
The point was that someone had the thirst for change, to change something heavily ingrained in the lives of US people, there doesn't seem to be that willingness to put ones neck on the line for a change that is blatantly needed for the good of the people.
I wonder how many people have died from firearm related crimes since the end of the civil war.
Didn't stop them abolishing the slave trade though, who would have thought that possible considering the money and power of the slave drivers.
Well it did. That's why they had to have a war in which three quarters of a million people died, the greatest loss of life of any war in US history, before the US constitution could be amended to abolish slavery.
I don't think another civil war to introduce tighter gun controls is really feasible.
So democracy will continue to be perverted by gun lobby money.
More people are saying this wouldn't have happened if everyone was armed
To be fair to Mercans for once (quite rare for me) I think it's true to say that a majority want more gun control. It's certainly the case that even though they are legally entitled to own guns, again, the majority don't. The enormous gun ownership in the States is down to a minority who own a cupboard full each.
Of course, in these situations the fact that minorities commit murder is of little comfort.
God can you imagine the carnage in a mass shooting event if a significant number of people were armed ? Nutter starts shooting hero pulls out his gun shoots back second hero hears gun shots behind him pulls out his gun shoots at hero one who now shoots back to defend self further heroes see what they assume are nutters engaged in a massacre and open fire and so on as it ripples out. At some point SWAT turn up and take out the survivors.
I like gun control . If you make gun ownership unlawful then only criminals and the police have guns which means if you see a guy with a gun who aint police you know to avoid them and if the police se a guy with a gun they know immediately he is a baddie and can apprehend him and stop him committing crime. Hunting rifles and shot guns can be an easily and efficiently licenced exception at very low risk.
The "it's two hard practically" argument is rubbish make an announcement then one month amnesty to hand in your guns after which massive crack down by police seizing guns and fining for possession in private and jail for carrying.
Yes a few in the gun industry will lose jobs or have to change jobs but at the moment many are losing lives or suffering life changing events.
300-400 million guns in circulation. If I lived there I'd want one. I think the issue isn't just gun culture, it's American culture in general. In their reality they are superior to the rest of the world in every way. Movies aren't just a form escapist entertainment, it's something that validates their self image.
My brother in law is in the Irish Police and so regularly travels to New York for Saint Patrick's day and various functions. He's a big, physically strong guy, but always comments on how the NYPD are a terrifying bunch of steroid fueled gun nuts. He says they can't relate or talk on any normal level without resorting to film quotes and macho BS, all they are interested in discussing is their guns, workouts and how to choke someone.
They strike me as a culturally backward, poorly educated nation obsessed with superficiality and image (generalising I know). Their attitude to mental health, the prevalence of anti depressants and the power exerted over their health care systems by large pharmaceutical companies seems to compound their problems.
More people are saying this wouldn't have happened if everyone was armed
BBC news this morning was talking to some local pastor at the scene of the shooting. His view was the students should be armed 😳
Oregon is a shall-issue, concealed carry state, with open carrying broadly tolerated too, no firearms licencing, no ownership permits and only basic background checking, and I think also state law specifically designed to prevent localities introducing their own controls. So the "moar guns" brigade should have a hard time with all that. I think just about the only thing they could do to make gun carrying easier, would be to allow it for children or give them away in cereal boxes
(this is a genuine question, not some STW passive aggressive bullshit). Has there actually been a demonstrated case of a mass shooting being prevented by an armed civilian bystander? I can't remember ever hearing of one. I've shot a bit, but put me in the middle of this sort of situation with a gun and I'm probably more likely to fumble it and shoot myself in the balls than shoot the gunman. And put someone like me in a situation where maybe someone's going to get shot or maybe not, and arm them, and it escalates it and probably makes it much more likely that innocent people get shot.
Some of the details of this one are just horrible. And the irony, that the US is obsessed with wiretaps and elint and defeating strong encryption and all that but you can openly post things on a forum and nobody goes "better call the cops", and some people even say "Yeah, go for it". What tyres for school shootings?
Northwind(this is a genuine question, not some STW passive aggressive bullshit). Has there actually been a demonstrated case of a mass shooting being prevented by an armed civilian bystander?
Yes. Numerous I think. If a mass shooting is prevented then it can't be a mass shooting and hence, it doesn't make for gory sexy news over here, and we don't hear about it.
The right of US citizens to own and use guns as their laws currently seem to allow.
Is written in the blood and tears of the victims.
Just when will the US have had enough of this and stop it!
jimjam have you got an example of one of these numerous incidents?