[Closed] Northern Ireland (and politics)

I can't see it - views are too entrenched for Unionists.

is it a serious option?

I really don't think so. Maybe many generations down the line, but it won't happen any time soon. The Brexit vote has raised all kinds of divisions though. It will be only substantial land border between the UK and the EU - the notion of a hard border with customs checks will be an absolute nightmare given the giant leaps forward since the GFA. I'm not sure people (especially the uneducated portion of "Leave") understand the amount of cross-border trade and initiatives that happen now.

Make no mistake, Sinn Féin will try to make the most of it. It is their stated aim after all, and the fact that the DUP was "Leave" will be helping them stir the pot.

is it a serious option?

Yes, it is in the Good Friday Agreement

What's the current sentiment amongst the population?

Against

Could it ever happen?

Maybe, but interestingly the politically closer rest of the UK is the North's dominant trade party not the geographically closer south.

Would they have to put border crossings between NI and the mainland then? Otherwise it's a bit of a back door into the UK from the EU isn't it?

Sinn Féin

Utter sidetrack - can you get Irish keyboards with accented letters on? Or do you just know the numeric keypad codes for them?

A large part of the north's population are most definitely british. This is enshrined in the good friday agreement. If Brexit does go sideways for the north then there may be some push for some sort of fudge. Its a shame that at the moment the politicians can't even form a government as there is a danger the north will get a really bad deal.
Would the ROI even be interested in taking on the north in any form anyway??

Utter sidetrack - can you get Irish keyboards with accented letters on? Or do you just know the numeric keypad codes for them?

Brexit may have a catalytic effect (as opposed to a catholic effect) but I suspect I won't see a united Ireland in my lifetime. Ultimately I suspect demographics will play more of a part in achieving unification than brexit.

Molls - [url= https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/23/northern-ireland-brexit-border-old-wounds-troubles ]A very indepth feature in the Guardian last week goes into all the implications[/url]

As someone who spent a lot of (sometimes pretty bloody scary!) time in 'Bandit Country' prior to the Good Friday agreement, with the border posts,checkpoints etc I can assure you that absolutely nobody wants to return to anything resembling that! What that article also points out is that the peace is still fragile, and there are still nutters on both sides who would love to exploit the situation to re-start hostilities.

Oh... and if the troubles taught us anything its that the Irish border is too big and porous to police. If they couldn't stop people smuggling arms, by using thousands of troops, helicopters, and everything else at the disposal of the British Army, what chance do you think they'd have now?

I suspect the Republic would definitely take the six counties back. People I know in the south who are not particularly republican regard the north as part of Ireland even if they don't support any proactive measures to change the status quo

ccéúíóá

Only acute accents it seems. No to bach (circumflex) for Welsh.

Utter sidetrack - can you get Irish keyboards with accented letters on? Or do you just know the numeric keypad codes for them?

On a mac or iphone press and hold the letter and it will come up with a context menu that offers all letter options. The fada being one.

On Windows all the accents exist but it involves remembering loads of alt code crap. I don't know if windows 10 makes it easier???

Would the ROI even be interested in taking on the north in any form anyway??

I am not sure they have a say as the GFA leaves the decision to the people of the North so I think they are contracturally bound. The few Irish I have spoken to say with their heart they would say yes, but are very concerned at cost because NI gets alot of subsidy from the rest of the UK.

I am not sure they have a say as the GFA leaves the decision to the people of the North so I think they are contracturally bound. The few Irish I have spoken to say with their heart they would say yes, but are very concerned at cost because NI gets alot of subsidy from the rest of the UK.

The polls i have seen are very cost dependent, if the north comes free of charge, yes, but the more the cost the less the willingness.

Yes, it is in the Good Friday Agreement

To clarify, yes, it's a serious option. I had assumed mol meant "option" as in "possibility in the near future".

Would the ROI even be interested in taking on the north in any form anyway??

I'm not sure they'd be massively keen - politics there is an utter mess at the moment but if a majority were to vote for re-unification, I don't think they could possibly say "no".

Would they have to put border crossings between NI and the mainland then? Otherwise it's a bit of a back door into the UK from the EU isn't it?

Nobody knows right now. RoI isn't part of schengen at the moment, so there may be something there. There's not a chance this will be sorted in two years - FFS, how long did it take to sort out what days what flags could be flown from government buildings!?

Utter sidetrack - can you get Irish keyboards with accented letters on? Or do you just know the numeric keypad codes for them?

There is only one accent in Irish - the fada over vowels:
a (ah) becomes á (aw)
e (eh) becomes é (ay to rhyme with hay)
i (i as in "igloo") becomes í (ee)
o (uh) becomes ó (oh as in more)
u (uh) becomes ú (oo is in food)

And as it's gaelic, shedloads of small variations depending on what consonants precede or follow.

"fada" literally means "long" so what it does is broaden the sound of the vowel. There's a combination of keys on a mac keyboard (alt-e, then press vowel) that places this accent over the vowel - probably more for the acute in French, which I learned as my own first name has the accent.

Anyway...back to politics.

Ultimately I suspect demographics will play more of a part in achieving unification than brexit.

There was a time when all the Catholics were busy still having big families, and the Protestants were using contraception more and having smaller families - it actually looked like the population percentages would flip. However, Catholic birthrate has slowed down, and when the province was on its arse, re-unification as a concept would trump all other considerations. However, it would be a massive assumption to think that all Catholics would now vote for re-unification. Certainly a few years ago, they wouldn't Although again, Brexit would have a big influence on voting patterns now I reckon.

Diageo (baileys & Guiness) make 18000 border crossings a year alone. On leaving the customs union each load will need an EUR1 which costs £24!

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/poll-just-38-want-a-united-ireland-29584149.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37309706

Note the dates, what happens going forward is anyones guess at this time. There is no demand today, but wait and see how the Conservatives handle Brexit and that may change.

Iirc one of the demographic factors is that the unionist population is older than the nationalist one, I agree the days of massive catholic families are long gone. I wouldn't expect all Catholics to be nationalist nor all non-Catholics unionists

Utter sidetrack - can you get Irish keyboards with accented letters on? Or do you just know the numeric keypad codes for them?

Would they have to put border crossings between NI and the mainland then? Otherwise it's a bit of a back door into the UK from the EU isn't it?

mikeyp - Member
Diageo (baileys & Guiness) make 18000 border crossings a year alone. On leaving the customs union each load will need an EUR1 which costs £24!

Good - hopefully keep that black rubbish out of the pubs and give our own micro breweries a chance!

The republic isn't in schengen, outcome will be the status quo, ie the continuation of the uk common travel area. Any other thoughts are just there to sell papers, there will be no border.

For customs purposes they need to sort something. Currently you can cross the border bring back anything you like. Post Brexit, as an example International Duty Free rules apply, VAT claims, duty etc etc.

If theres checks they won't be in newry or Derry etc. They'll be at the ferry ports and ni then works under different rules with more autonomy to align itself to the republic. Imo brexit means a defacto UI. When that becomes official is anyone's guess. Probly another 20 years. There's just no other way for it to happen i reckon.

Tbh it's all dependent on what brexit looks like. If the tories insist on a hard border it'll need to be based around the mainland as they can't expect the republic to isolate itself from Europe.

ÂÁÀÄÊÉÈËÎÍÌÏÔÓÒÖÛÚÙÜâáàäêéèëîíìïôóòöûúùü?????Ý?Ÿ?????ý?ÿ

[url= http://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/welsh.htm ]They're all here, Molgrips[/url]

As a child of the 'troubles' i normally stay out of any politics thread/discussion but...

If the tories insist on a hard border

Then they're a bigger shower of CLINTS than previously thought. I can't imagine anyone with even half a head would want a hard border again. Maybe they should be sent over to police the border if they're so keen on having it.

We must do anything to keep the **** wits happy. If the express readers want a border due to one instance that might happen then they will have to do it in our best interests.
Trump has a wall, we will have one and make the Irish pay for it.
Common sense has long disappeared.
Ps. May is a ****.

If there was a realistic chance of winning a referendum Sinn Fein would be shouting a lot louder about getting one than they are. The same has been true for quite a few years now. It will change over time in much the same way the Scottish went from being SNP extremists to a reasonably close vote over around 20 years.

Winning a referendum could also remove the reason for Sinn Fein to exist.

Winning a referendum could also remove the reason for Sinn Fein to exist.

If I was voting for a Dublin government I'd probably want to vote for a party that could potentially be a majority. Of course it depends if the Irish parties choose to stand in Northern Ireland.

The unionists would likely survive but just be less relevant / more disruptive.

There's also the other side of it, do the South really want the North?.

If the tories insist on a hard border

Why would they do that? It is pretty clear they want a soft border, whether the EU will agree is another matter.

andy_B

It has to be a hard border between the UK and other country. We've been told that repeatedly by both Tories and Labour for the past 4-5 years.

mefty - Member
If the tories insist on a hard border
Why would they do that?

I don't think there will be a particularly hard border anywhere. Whether on the irish main land, between british and irish ports or british and european ports.

Hadn't really thought about the EU putting up a fence to keep "US" out.
That would really piss off the mail readers.
Can we crowd fund one?

I think the border will end up looking like Switzerland assuming there is no free trade deal. So just a means to clear goods and free passage for people.

158 seats for a population of 4.7M people! So could we expect to add 50 to that to allow for 1.8M in NI?

SF could easily be the biggest party. Scrap what I said earlier. I really thought they'd be an irrelevance.

Is it worth me getting some sort of official presence in NI so I can get an EU passport on reunification?
What's the cheapest property in the province?
Cheers Zippy O'Kona.

http://m.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/43600727?search_identifier=3b4d9dd199334b57ca3c65c9709e1941
Alright smarty pants down there!
Anyway Scotland will be independent before irish reunification.

zippykona - Member
How many people want to co-own this with me?
http://m.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/43600727?search_identifier=3b4d9dd199334b57ca3c65c9709e1941

you do know campbelltown is in scotland, right? 😆

Came across this,

http://www.daft.ie/clare/houses-for-sale/ennistymon/drumeevin-valley-ennistymon-clare-1221539/

get in before brexit and hide, then claim a passport and residency.

I bet there's a hundred of us that would chip in on that ^^^^

That flat in Cambelltown - the mortgate would be less than a Sky subscription!

The harder the Brexit the more likely reunification.