[Closed] No, seriously?

Apart from all those black spots from all of those buildings around it along the river, and the complaints from their occupants when that hefty radar plays merry hell with their computers and other electronic devices.

I only went into medicine because the RAF told me I didn't have the eyesight to be a pilot.

That has all changed. So I'll be applying this summer.

A lot of guys over at Arrse/Pprune don't think much of this decision either.

Perfectly good air defense are in place

I only went into medicine because the RAF told me I didn't have the eyesight to be a pilot.

Bwaarp, not directed at you, old chap, but at our resident omniscient.

Apart from all those black spots from all of those buildings around it along the river, and the complaints from their occupants when that hefty radar plays merry hell with their computers and other electronic devices.

Good point, I'm guessing they would switch it on once ground observers or air control had spotted a target. The missiles I think can be data linked to target aircraft located by other radar units.

Still not convinced, I still reckon it's mostly for show.

I still reckon it's mostly for show.

As a resident, I'd be incredibly hacked off about all this.
TJ, where are the air defence facts to prove that they even exist??

Rapier malfunction

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=593_1255018191

Not as much of a problem if it is just a couple of squaddies up a tower with a shoulder launched Starstreak system though.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Medical professional in knowing everything about counter-terrorism shockah!

And Flashheart lacking the confidence to ever express an opinion, or make any carefully thought out comment, on any subject, shockah

Even lacking the confidence to reveal what he does, if anything, for a living, lest anyone should take the piss shockah

I thnk I know why he does that ernie

Perfectly good air defense are in place

piffle

Now it may be that is easier to do it from the air because we have weak air defences that dont protect us. However it appears we dont get attacked by air [ perhaps this is due to adequate air defence?] and it is not the chosen method for terrorist attackers.

if you think it is poor perhaps you could explain why?

if you think it is poor perhaps you could explain why?

Don - I ain't responding to your trolling any more - just pointless.

Ummm

TJ, not sure how to say this but ummm, it is rocket science! We are talking aboout missiles aka rockets!

TJ, all I have had done is use your strategy against you, and you don't like it, do you?
The only thing you haven't done is insult people... 😀

❓

God he really has got under your skin hasn't he ...i think you should chill,get out more , get over this and move on

Except if you are painted with one, it will trigger a warning receiver in 4th gen aircraft allowing the pilot to either run, dive below cover or enter clouds.

If the plane is able to enter clouds it'd be too high to be in range anyway. Starstreak is a low level point defence / anti helicopter missile. Max range is 7k, so you've got less than 7 seconds to do something about it - at min range you'd have less than a second.

All largely irrelevent anyway as the 'terrorists' aren't going to be riding around in 4th gen fighters. And neither, for that matter, is anyone we're likely to have a war with.

The really nasty SAM's are the newer gen fire and forget thermal ones that can differentiate between counter measures and aircraft.

Pretty much every sam since the 2nd gen has been able to do that. All that happens is counter measures get better, and then the missiles get better, and repeat. The beauty of the laser system is there isn't any countermeasure (at low level with no clouds). Obviously not fire and forget tho so there is always the problem that someone might 'distract' you whilst you're trying to kill them (much like the problems Milan anti tank people would have faced in the fulda gap in the 80s).

pingu66 - Member

Ummm

TJ, not sure how to say this but ummm, it is rocket science! We are talking aboout missiles aka rockets!

🙂 I thought that had been wasted completely 🙂

God he really has got under your skin hasn't he

To be fair I think DS is in a generally stroppy mood at the moment, and from what I've seen it's not solely directed at TJ.

God he really has got under your skin hasn't he ...i think you should chill,get out more , get over this and move on

To be fair I think DS is a generally stroppy mood at the moment, and from what I've seen it's not solely directed at TJ.

When I go flying I see a lot more clouds around below 7K, Ewan.

No one else uses the beam riding concept except us and historically it has proven to be prone to user errors.

Military pilots generally have three countermeasures available to it, getting below ground clutter to make the operators time harder, get in clouds, or take hard evasive manurers to generally make it as hard for the operator or optical tracking to track the target. Some have a fourth, the laser beam source can be detected and engaged with guided missiles by some 5th generation fighters.

If we are talking about the olympics...the system is especially hard to operate when aircraft are passing 90 degrees to the operator, now imagine trying to use a beam riding weapon where your line of sight is cluttered by ground objects such as high rise buildings. Ever looked at the part of London they are trying to protect?

Are you looking out for me ernesto?

No stroppy bollox, I was making a suggestion to JY.

No stroppy bollox, I was making a suggestion to JY.

How does it go .............. Whatever 🙄 ?

😆 It would appear that you're rattled.

Is mocking you the sign of being rattled?
can you prove that? 😀

You must be rattled by me then if saying whatever is the sign of being rattled? 😛
night all

you're rattled.

Hugely. As you can imagine.

can you prove that?

[img] [/img]

Red circle is the tower where the missile battery will be.

ROFLMAO. Look at all the clutter.... they won't be able to hit shit from there. By the time they can they may as well just resort to small arms fire.

Hey what happened to TooTall, he's either adapting an RC or looking up new big words!

It would be alot easier if we could discuss, rather than attack, I know I would enjoy it more. After all, are we not entitled to our opinions and thoughts. Non in here I think would be privvy to the details of the breadth and depth of specific defenses. Though there are some interesting references here from some people most of what has been said is opinion and conjecture which we should simply agree to disagree on, if indeed we do disagree.

Its the athaletes and visitors I feel sorry fo, I'm meant to be working on the Olympic Park and its a bloody nightmare getting in, security at ground level is pretty good.

Clucking Bell bwaarp, you doing the attack plans? Geez the only thing you haven't got on there is the "kill zone"

Nahhh, it's from the Daily Mail lol.

It would be alot easier if we could discuss, rather than attack, I know I would enjoy it more.

Oh you had me worried, if its in the Mail it must be right!!!!!!!!

Don I don't have an issue with yourself, I enjoy debate but not being attacked, you didn't attack me, however TooTall did. As I say we are all entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately sometimes it blows up.

I assume there are some "personalities" on STW I need to get used to it as a Newbie!

After all I only wanted some bike advice?

Thinking of a do it all CX type bike for long distance training any ideas! Dont want a roady! Ooops wrong thread I guess!

(that was a difuse argument grenade)

Well, supposedly it is the tower that have been told they will have a SAM site on their property.

Don't know why they don't use helicopters with stingers on 24 hour CAP tbh. But hey, all conjecture. Whole thing seems like a choice between do we cause AVGAS to rain down on cockneys or the politicians, corporate sponsors and tourists in the stadium.

Take your pick.

ROFLMAO. Look at all the clutter.... they won't be able to hit shit from there. By the time they can they may as well just resort to small arms fire.

how can you tell from that picture?

The stadium is clearly the intended GDA, the HVM is designed as a point defence weapon to engage oncoming targets, therefore to judge the positioning you need to stand on the tower to get the arc's and engagement ranges. The angle of view in the picture is clearly not adequate to make an assessment.

You also need to add in the likely type of threat; is it FGA or popup AH using stand-off missles (the threat HVM was designed to counter)or a relatively slow moving aircraft/ Helo/ROV that needs to hit the target itself?

HVM is a very effective missile with a short time of flight, they were talking about 11 men so thats likely to be two launchers with supporting kit to identify targets and to man the radios.

They will obviously have tight rules of engagement (Weapons Tight at least) as all AD does as pilots don't like getting shot down by their own side.

all off Wikipedia 😉

[b][i]Defence Secretary Philip Hammond said:

"The majority of this exercise will be played out in full view of the public and I hope that it will have a secondary effect of reassuring the British people that everything possible is being done to ensure this will be a safe and secure Olympic and Paralympic Games." [/i][/b]

I wasn't aware that Londoners felt insecure about the Olympic Games taking place, I certainly haven't heard anyone expressing concern about their safety because of the Olympic Games.

I assume that might change now that Philip Hammond has highlighted the possibility of a terrorist attack.

I guess the "war in terror" hasn't gone quite as we might have hoped, what with terrorists now so powerful that they can threatening us with [i]"very high performance low-flying aircraft"[/i]. Time to up the antes I reckon, and give rogue states and all who habour terrorists something which will make them think twice. Iran seems to be a good place to start.

Thank goodness we have a government which is committed to defending the British people. Thank goodness we have a Tory Defence Secretary........ I know who I'll voting for next election.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9236915/Olympic-defence-missiles-dont-work-in-bad-weather.html ]Olympic defence missiles 'don't work in bad weather'[/url]

Starstreak and Rapier missile systems - which have a range of around 4 miles -

any article that quotes the range of rapier at 4 miles isn't worth the rest of the read.

rapier can be radar controlled
(info off Wiki)

HVM is the last layer in the AD strategy so if they can't see the aircraft, it can't see where it is flying unless it's a helo flying along the streets which they won't be able to do much about anyway.

it will be 80% guff anyway, the first principle of defence is to make sure they think you are prepared, they won't be expecting any action due to the deterent effect of visibly countering the threat

any article that quotes the range of rapier at 4 miles isn't worth the rest of the read.

What ?..... not even when it's in the Daily Telegraph ?

You know...... the Daily Telegraph.......the newspaper which Brigadier General "Bunny" Warren-Balderdash-Anddammit de Huffle-Pyffle of Upper Chipping upon Thames reads

😯

**** me, they could take out elfinsafety from that distance?

You know...... the Daily Telegraph.......the newspaper which Brigadier General "Bunny" Warren-Balderdash-Anddammit de Huffle-Pyffle of Upper Chipping upon Thames reads

Mmm surely the old IRA tactic (and simple at that) is required here. Get a truck, chop the roof off, whack in some
big Mortars, park it on the A12 at a jaunty angle , light blue touch paper and run. Doesn't matter if no one gets hurt but if you Lob something that goes bang into the Olympic park job done. And a lot easier that building a laser avoiding drone using the maplins catalogue!