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heard on R4 yesterday morning that France had just yesterday decided to downgrade their security level from National Emergency following the last attack 🙁
Another huge French intelligence failure. Deploying the Army and it's reserve will have little or no affect
I don't think any country could have stopped this.
Minimal planning needed. What is done will be over encrypted communications.
Now, if it comes out the individual who did this was known to the authorities, then questions may be asked.
...even then, man drives lorry is not exactly going to flag up the intent of what was to come.
Another huge French intelligence failure
Wtf? Unless you want to live in a police state how exactly does an intelligence service prevent every one of this type of attack? All I've heard is he was known to police (as a criminal) not as a potential terrorist. Even if he was under suspicion there's no way the French intelligence service can keep track of everyone that crosses their radar.
Another huge French intelligence failure.
Stay classy.
wot pondo sed.
I think it's almost sad how people believe that the state can protect them from every fool who wants to harm others.
That every attack is an abject failure by the security services.
You don't get the FBI blamed for every lone gunman attack in the States - why is this different?
Another huge French intelligence failure
Erm... ok
Its actually far from it. You have to look at the bigger picture. This is a desperate act to try and counter the fact that ISIS (or whatever you want to call them) are losing the military conflict and being driven back, while losing support as the people see them for what they are.
its terrible, but lets keep things in context
They were already considering sacking their head of intelligence. Under a sustained long term attack their only response has been to call out the reserve and to downgrade their alert status. All points to a failure within their security system to understand and asses the situation.
I did not mention stopping all attacks or becoming a police state. What I'm suggesting is its time for a change at the top and a root and branch review of their system. You can find plenty of articles that indicate and underlying dissatisfaction with French security and cooperation with other allied nations.
We have a choice. We can publish pictures to promote fear to support our own agendas, which is a bit tasteless, or we can sit down and work out how to deal with this, get together and support each other.
PersonallyI won't be making a fuss, I won't be scared and I won't shun anyone because of race or religion.
I am embarrased for those who are using this for their own ends, but I won't shun you either.
A sadder situation for humanity I can not think of.
May the souls of those innocent rest in festival they enjoyed before they encountered the abomination.
andybrad
why do they have to show such images? I think its too much.
I think it's important we see such things. Today, we are largely isolated from death on a first hand basis in the 1st world and yet, in our virtual world, we no longer blink an eye at people getting killed (witness the fact a film or computer game can show hundreds of people getting killed without issue, but have to carry a banner saying "no animals were harmed during the making of").
We see news reports of "hundreds killed by fighting in Syria" but we don;t see the details, see the misery and human suffering. Well, here, we ARE seeing it, and hopefully it will affect the way we think and act for the better (possibly for the worse if we let anger rule ourselves!)
Another huge French intelligence failure
Really?
If anything it's just rendered intelligence meaningless. No need to make bombs or get guns, just use a lorry. The simplicity really is bloody terrifying. Utterly impossible to defend against.
maxtorqueI think it's important we see such things. Today, we are largely isolated from death on a first hand basis in the 1st world and yet, in our virtual world, we no longer blink an eye at people getting killed (witness the fact a film or computer game can show hundreds of people getting killed without issue, but have to carry a banner saying "no animals were harmed during the making of").
Agreed. I was watching this unfold online last night and saw the videos as they appeared on twitter. I was disgusted by what I saw, but not sorry that I watched.
Another huge French intelligence failure.
sorry dont agree with that. i agree with FuzzyWuzzy in they cant be expected to track every would be terrorist...half the people they track may not even be terrorists...its just that they suspect that they may be...until they commit a crime there's no way of telling.
reports suggest the perpetrator was a known criminal to the police...so he may have done this of his own volition...we dont know yet. until the French authorities disclose more information on who the driver was and what they suspect his reasons for the attack was and whether he had any links to any terror group i dont think its right to be speculating on this any further.
right now we should be offering thoughts and prayers for the victims of this senseless killing.
As others have said almost impossible to guard against. Not only could it happen just as easily in this country it could well have been worse here. How long would it have taken for armed officers to respond, whereas in France you could argue the police were more prepared to deal with such an incident as far more of the police routinely carry firearms.
until the French authorities disclose more information on who the driver was and what they suspect his reasons for the attack was and whether he had any links to any terror group i dont think its right to be speculating on this any further.
Are you suggesting he might have been an angry Mormon?
[i]Ninja Edited for reasons.[/i]
...but:
09:19 GMT
French local media have identified the truck driver as Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel. It was revealed earlier that he was a 31-year-old French national who was born in Tunisia.
- rt.com
Another huge [s]French intelligence[/s] failure of society
The world needs to look and what makes someone do such an act, what isolates them from society and pushes them in to influence of terrorists.
People are not born evil.
As with previous attacks, this is more a French society problem than an international terrorist issue.
A lot of North African youth are not integrated at all in society.
Nice is a beautiful town, have family there and visit regularly, but it has a lot of very difficult suburbs.
It also has a very right wing Mayor, not Front National, but not far.
Don't want to look at pictures or read about it. Just feel very sad and numb about it all.
We where up until 3am watching French news and checking on friends and family. There where early reports of guns, grenades and the shouts plus reports of driver being shot dead by police. It was apparent very quickly it was an act of terrorism. Use of vehicles to ram pedestrians is not new, its happened in France before, in Austria (fatally) and of course in Israel.
French press report he rammed the police barricade and broke through. All French police are armed and fhe Army is permanently present outside every Synagogue and Jewish School and all other government buildings. I have no doubt the lorry came under police / army fire but if its travelling quickly its obvious it can break through.
As for intelligence the authorities here are tracking 1000's of people, I imagine France its even more. With unbreakable encryption now on WhatsAp etc terrorists can communicate freely. Its impossible for the authrorities to foil every attack at the planning stage. Whether they could have had more robust barriers, that will be discussed I imagine.
Hollande has now reversed his decision to end the state of emergency and to remove the army protection of the Jewish community. IMO its time to recognise we live in a very different world and security commitments need to go up substantially not down
Just to reiterate, there where eyewitness reports on TV of him shout Allahu Ackbar last night, around 1:30am I recall.
What we need to do Jamby, is ban automatic high capacity assault trucks.
What we need to do Jamby, is ban automatic high capacity assault trucks.
That's really not being helpful.
I am not saying they are radicalised by outside influence, but the origin of the problem is total lack of integration in society.
But of course terrorism is a lot easier to blame for politicians rather than looking at their past, present and future failures to deal with real issues.
We spent a good while trying to park in the area last night ahead of the fireworks. Due to it being so busy we decided to head back to our hotel to watch from there. In hindsight a very lucky decision.
A truly shocking and depressing event.
Truly tragic what happened last night
At least Rihanna and the cast of 50 Shades of Grey are all accounted for
Just to reiterate, there where eyewitness reports on TV of him shout Allahu Ackbar last night, around 1:30am I recall.
So what?? What does that actually matter and how exactly is it relevant to anything?
Some f'kin nutjob decides its OK to run over people celebrating because..well what? What in the world could possibly make someone think that's ok? I don't care what he's shouting, wearing, the colour of his skin or what religious beliefs he has - I'm pretty certain that there's no where in any religious scripture or document that says what has happened here is OK. Its a group of f'kin nutters trying to spread fear and hatred and in doing so killing innocent people. And by having it on every single form of media they're getting exactly what they wanted.
As per everyone else, I'm stunned, shocked and saddened by what's happened. Made equally worse by the constant showing of videos taken last night. Personally I find it disgusting that 'action shots' of what happened are being broadcast. If one of my family or friends was a victim of an attack, the last thing I'd want is for footage to be shown to those obsessed with watching people (including children) being run over by a truck. Its a complete lack of respect to those injured or killed, something which in this day and age seems to be becoming more and more common. Additionally, they (ISIS or whichever band of mouth-breathing scum claim responsibility for this attack) want people to fear them or hate them, or just generally fight them. Showing stuff like this only exacerbates the problem.
As for increasing the security threat - how exactly do you police something like this? What on earth is the army going to do? There's nothing you can do, and turning up the hatred 'Trump style' isn't going to make anything any better.
At least Rihanna and the cast of 50 Shades of Grey are all accounted for
Oh thank god, out of tragedy come good news.
Words fail me when I think about children and families out to watch fireworks being caught up in this senseless action.
So what?? What does that actually matter and how exactly is it relevant to anything?Some f'kin nutjob decides its OK to run over people celebrating because..well what? What in the world could possibly make someone think that's ok? I don't care what he's shouting, wearing, the colour of his skin or what religious beliefs he has - I'm pretty certain that there's no where in any religious scripture or document that says what has happened here is OK. Its a group of f'kin nutters trying to spread fear and hatred and in doing so killing innocent people. And by having it on every single form of media they're getting exactly what they wanted.
As per everyone else, I'm stunned, shocked and saddened by what's happened. Made equally worse by the constant showing of videos taken last night. Personally I find it disgusting that 'action shots' of what happened are being broadcast. If one of my family or friends was a victim of an attack, the last thing I'd want is for footage to be shown to those obsessed with watching people (including children) being run over by a truck. Its a complete lack of respect to those injured or killed, something which in this day and age seems to be becoming more and more common. Additionally, they (ISIS or whichever band of mouth-breathing scum claim responsibility for this attack) want people to fear them or hate them, or just generally fight them. Showing stuff like this only exacerbates the problem.
As for increasing the security threat - how exactly do you police something like this? What on earth is the army going to do? There's nothing you can do, and turning up the hatred 'Trump style' isn't going to make anything any better.
+1
those ISIS mo-fo's havent claimed responsibility for it..or at least not yet. so could it be that this was the actions of a deranged loner who happens to be muslim?
its funny how right away the media is classing this as an act of terrorism (and quite rightly so) but when Andres Brevik went on his killing rampage the media wasnt as quick to class that as an act of terrorsim but the action of a lone wolf who may have had mental health issues...funny that
chubstr +1 my thoughts exactly
Words fail me when I think about children and families out to watch fireworks being caught up in this senseless action.
with all due respect this kind of thing is a regular occurance in other parts of the world such as afghanistan, ****stan, israel, palestine, iraq, syria to name but a few...but the world ignores them but then shows its shock horror when it happens a little closer to home
FFS who decides that one life is worth more than another??
it shouldnt matter about race, gender or religion...its all human life at the end of the day and should therefore be equal
Is it really just a coincidence he was mulsim?
Not sure we'll ever resolve the problem with our heads stuck up our arses.
flange
Just to reiterate, there where eyewitness reports on TV of him shout Allahu Ackbar last night, around 1:30am I recall.So what?? What does that actually matter and how exactly is it relevant to anything?
Some f'kin nutjob decides its OK to run over people celebrating because..well what? What in the world could possibly make someone think that's ok? I don't care what he's shouting, wearing, the colour of his skin or what religious beliefs he has - I'm pretty certain that there's no where in any religious scripture or document that says what has happened here is OK. Its a group of f'kin nutters trying to spread fear and hatred and in doing so killing innocent people. And by having it on every single form of media they're getting exactly what they wanted.
It matters. He wasn't shouting "sing hosanna" or "hari hari". Saudi Arabia is spending billions (some say up to $100billion a year) promoting their wahhabist ideology all over the world. From mosques in Orlando to villages in rural ****stan. They want this interpretation of Islam to become the dominant force in the world.
ISIS could be defeated overnight but another iteration of it will emerge with Saudi/Quatari funding a month later.
These attacks are carried out by "lone nutters". But they are lone nutters who are buying into an ideology that is being promoted worldwide with a multi billion pound budget.
the origin of the problem is total lack of integration in society
I'm getting sick of reading comments like this. Look around you, here in London and in thousands of other places around the world there are huge numbers of perfectly well integrated people from all sorts of religious, ethnic and cultural backgrounds.
The origin of the problem is Islam taken to its self expressed conclusion.
Clearly hugely sad that another group of innocents have lost their lives.
Thing that bugs me though is how we continue to refer to these acts as terrorism. The label just (IMO) legitimises (as far as is possible) the perpetrators' actions. We should just refer to them as murders or mass murders - make clear what is going on. There is no cause that justifies the deliberate taking of innocent life.
Words fail me when I think about children and families out to watch fireworks being caught up in this senseless action.with all due respect this kind of thing is a regular occurance in other parts of the world such as afghanistan, ****stan, israel, palestine, iraq, syria to name but a few...but the world ignores them but then shows its shock horror when it happens a little closer to home
FFS who decides that one life is worth more than another??
it shouldnt matter about race, gender or religion...its all human life at the end of the day and should therefore be equal
I wasn't looking for a pissing competition of "who has it worse", I was merely commenting on how bloody horrible this is. But thank you for taking a huge steaming dump over my comment.
Joolsburger, you might be sick of hearing but it is reality I am afraid, at least in France. And I have grown over there. There is some outside influence for sure but the issues of the Banlieues in France is well documented.
So what?? What does that actually matter and how exactly is it relevant to anything?
There seem to be a few cases now of petty criminals being turned into radical islamists. Saying his religion isn't relevant is not going to help look at how and why this is happening. So I'd say it's very relevant, maybe especially so in France.
Jimjam are you sure that's the only religion that spouts hate and violence in its texts?
gonzyJimjam are you sure that's the only religion that spouts hate and violence in its texts?
Religion is a crutch for the mind. IMO all religion is little more than redundant superstition. However, the Vatican isn't spending $100 billion a year teaching people to kill non believers or that homosexuals should be thrown off buildings or that adulterers should be stoned or that women shouldn't be educated.....yes they are doing silly shit like not changing their stance on contraception but that's not exactly comparable.
However, the Vatican isn't spending $100 billion a year teaching people to kill non believers or that homosexuals should be thrown off buildings or that adulterers should be stoned or that women shouldn't be educated.....
the vast majority of victims of these terror groups are Muslims...but because they are Muslims dying at the hands of the Muslim terrorists they dont count...right?
i'm still waiting to read about a homosexual Muslim being thrown off a rooftop in a Muslim country other than in Syria
yes adulterers are dealt with harshly but that's less of a religious and more cultural practice...the same as thieves having their hands chopped off...its cruel, barbaric and unacceptable just like the death penalty...but its ok for a modern forward thinking country like America to still carry on that practice but not for others
Saudi Arabia isnt the only Muslim country in the world...there are plenty of Muslim countries around the world where women are actively encouraged to educate themselves even to the point of becoming heads of state...who'd have thunk it(?)
you're right that the Saudi government spends a huge amount of money in trying to promote Wahabbiism through the Muslim world and thats down to the Saudi royal family...but ask yourself this....who allows it to happen?
the west is aware that this happens yet turns a blind eye to it...they can do as they please so long as they still get access to the Saudi oil and allow the hypocritical Saudi government to increase its own wealth while spreading its hateful message through its own warped view of Islam.
the west also knows that the Saudi government has dirty hands by its funding of terror groups but still does nothing as it allows them to carry on their proxy wars in the middle east and other regions under the false pretence that its a "war on terror". because this allows the select few to get richer and more powerful from these so called wars...all while the innocent suffer
Look you're not telling me anything I don't know (in fact I posted as much 2hrs ago). You asked me a rhetorical question about religion. I replied.
is it really just a coincidence he is a Muslim ?
No it is just an irrelevance, Brekkers was a christian is that a coincidence ? The man who did this is evil, misguided , ill, lots of things more relevant than the peg he may have chosen to hang his act on.
Until people stop trying to use simplistic tribalism and hate to deal with international terror it will continue to spread and grow.
with all due respect this kind of thing is a regular occurance in other parts of the world such as afghanistan, ****stan, israel, palestine, iraq, syria to name but a few...but the world ignores them but then shows its shock horror when it happens a little closer to home
FFS who decides that one life is worth more than another??
it shouldnt matter about race, gender or religion...its all human life at the end of the day and should therefore be equalPOSTED 2 HOURS AGO #
Yeah no, they described it in the headlines as a "Truck attack" first - like this
http://fox13now.com/2016/07/14/mayor-of-nice-france-tens-of-dead-when-truck-runs-into-crowd/
Meanwhile in other news, "Planes attack Pearl Harbour" and "Gun kills dozens of school children".
And no one ever thinks that Muslims being blown up in ****stan is somehow less of a tragedy, it's just much more common.
Personally, I suspect your whatabouterry highlights a deep seated feeling of these attacks being justified (cuz it happens in ****stan and the west support Israel right?). Which makes you an enemy of the west.
The reality is, is that if we have trading relations with any country in the middle east. We'll get blown up for it, for one reason or the other. Support Shia Iranians? We'll get blown up by Sunnis. Support Saudi Arabia, we'll get blown up by Shia and Saudis themselves. Support Iraqis? We'll get bombed by Iranians. Support Turks? We'll get bombed by Kurds. Support Kurds? We'll get bombed by Turks, Syrians and Iranians. Etc etc etc etc ad nauseum.
@crankboy, if you think islam is an irrelavance you are deluded and foolish.