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Maybe Jeremy should stay on, comrade?
I don't think you've ever asked for my opinion of Corbyn. But that would get in the way of your entirely predictable attacks on anyone who disagrees with you.
Anyway, go ahead and vote for Phillips: she's perfect for you.
Will do, comrade
@kelvin completely missed that story, not being deliberately ignorant or "specially ignorant" thanks! But have seen her slagging off Corbyn numerous times.
@binners you should change the star wars empire logo to a hammer and sickle
Will do, comrade
I can see why you like her.
Why, comrade?
Is it the Brummy accent? We members of the aristocracy do so enjoy a regional intonation
Labour have a simple decision, stay with a strong socialist ideology and don’t get elected, or move the policies and people over and actually stand a chance in an election. You can’t have both.
Whether large parts of twitter and here like it or not, the country has moved right and if you want to get elected, to some degree, you’ve got to go with them.
I’m no expert but I can see a party with Starmer at its head, with Jess Phillips in the shadow cabinet (and Tom Watson...) being a whole lot more appealing to the general populous than Corbyn and Abbot.
I may be wrong, but what’s the worst that can happen, they don’t get into power again?!
Had no idea that her sons school was closed on Fridays because of Tory cuts. No idea and I’ve seen her on the telly umpteen times in the last few years. Might have helped Labour in this last election if she went on about that
She could hardly complain about her kid's school changing to a 4 day week under the current government when Labour's manifesto included a 4 day week for everyone - including children, teachers and school staff.
She made a lot of high profile fuss about it before Labour's manifesto with the 4 day week plan was launched.
Labour have a simple decision, stay with a strong socialist ideology and don’t get elected, or move the policies and people over and actually stand a chance in an election. You can’t have both.
Don't agree. I think you can keep a lot of the policies but change the people. Corbyn didn't lose by that much against May and the polices were still socialist leaning. With a combination of Brexit and people having had enough of Corbyn by the recent election they lost.
Take Brexit out of the equation and have a shadow cabinet that people actually like and it could be a different matter.
Also need to be careful which polices you shout about while keeping others quiet.
Even if the Iran situation isn't the most important item (or even on most people's important list) it's a perfectly reasonable thing for Corbyn to quiz Johnson over.
Does the special relationship exist?
Will be be required to support US military adventures as part of securing trade deals?
Will be be drawn into more action against Iran?
Having said that, although I'm not really keen on the concept of political assassination, Soleimani was in Iraq, presumably to oversee or at least encourage further anti-Iraq/coalition action - so arguably a legitimate "military" target.
Why, comrade?
Is it the Brummy accent? We members of the aristocracy do so enjoy a regional intonation
No, because she's mouthy and shallow.
Ok now I'm convinced. The reason I changed my mind about Starmer was when I found out recently that he defended activists in the 90s pro bono. I came across many like him back in the day, and myself and many others owe people like him a lot, some of us escaped a prison stretch because of solicitors like him. It's true he did some dodgy things whilst DPP (spycops scandal wasn't a great moment), but he wouldn't be the first idealist to be compromised by an establishment job. He's also the only one of all the current contenders to talk properly about a green new deal, greater devolution and maintaining the radicalism started by Corbyn and McDonnell. Compared to the other declared candidates it's a no-brainer.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1213536222783688704?s=20
Even if the Iran situation isn’t the most important item (or even on most people’s important list) it’s a perfectly reasonable thing for Corbyn to quiz Johnson over.
I'm not sure it is. The best thing Boris can do is say nothing in public and state the Foreign office view in private. Britain can hardly publicly wholeheartedly support an extra judicial killing, yet we don't really want to publicly condemn it because the USA is a superpower and an ally and frankly because there was a pretty strong case for killing Soleimani especially when you look at his previous actions, where he was and who he was with. For the leader of the opposition to try to pressure Britain to make some kind of statement about something we should be keeping quiet about is wrong, IMHO. Some things are beyond party politics.
Also Corbyn's worked for state owned Iranian TV so getting involved in this on Iran's side looks really dodgy.
So yeah, I think Corbyn's being unreasonable here.
In contrast Kier Starmer's response was spot on IMHO as a potential opposition leader. Measured words with tactful disapproval.
Also despite my earlier post saying i'd never be a member, I just joined up. That's one vote for Phillips cancelled out. (two actually cos I've signed my Mrs up too).
I've just re-joined so that will offset one of Dazh's two anti-Phillips votes.
I’ve just re-joined so that will offset one of Dazh’s two anti-Phillips votes.
Serious question, do you really think Phillips is better than Starmer? Why?
Starmer is going to walk it
Bin - you'd be choosing Jess Phillips solely on personality which is - fail 1) and secondly she's not given any sort of idea what political party she wants to be in - fail 2). And finally Corbyn bought with him 300,000 members - fail 3) where do you think they will go?
(Not too mention all the tossy celebrity attitude she has, and too close for comfort Murdoch cozyness.)
If Jess Phillips is the answer I don't know what the question is.
I like Jess Phillips. She's sharp and funny, and she comes across well on telly.
That's not necessarily what I'd be looking for in a leader at the moment, though. I don't really know what she supports (though I know a lot of the things she's against), and while she might appeal to Labour voters I don't think she'd convince many Libs or Cons to switch votes.
I'm a bit wary of saying this in case binners calls me 'comrade' or puts up a picture of a comedian.
I’m gonna go; Phillips for Leader, sharp, witty and charismatic, things that have all been sorely lacking in the post, and are desperately needed to win votes in this modern soundbitey world. She’ll tear Boris a new one given the chance I reckon.
Starmer for her Shadow chancellor to provide depth, gravitas and someone that the chattering middle Englanders can warm to.
She’ll tear Boris a new one given the chance I reckon.
The faux working class oik act would be novel for a short while, then people would get very bored of it. What else has she got when that happens? Boris may come across as stupid but he isn't, he'll run rings around her once the novelty wears off. She could get away with lacking the intellectual rigour of Starmer if she had the party behind her (as Rayner would have), but she won't, because she's pissed way too many people off with her self-promoting antics on the talk shows and news channels. She's the most divisive candidate of all of them and would tear the party apart if she won.
Rone - the question is ‘who could make the Labour Party electable again?’
Daz - you is like part of ‘The Establishment’ now 😂
Daz - my preference is Starmer; I couldn't resist the open goal you gave me to comment.
It would be great if the contenders who are not aligned to the failed Corbyn project would have grown-up discussions about how they could work together.
To be clear - I would see that group comprising Starmer, Phillips, Thornberry, Nandy; I'm not sure about Lewis.
Long-Bailey is too closely associated with Corbyn/McDonnell and if Rayner came clean to say she would work as RLB's deputy that would also rule her out.
I wonder if any of my group of 4 above would stand aside to be deputy for one of the others.
Much work to be done - restoring credibility and being taken seriously for starters; present coherent challenges to Tory policies.
What, from the GE smorgasbord of offerings, resonated with a broad range of voters; that's a start point.
Climate change, as has been mentioned nnnn times, must be central to Labour's revised policy offerings.
The brexit bus has left; now work to get the best possible deal - challenge, where appropriate, using reason and facts; support where appropriate.
Expose Johnson's lack of detailed understanding. Use facts, reason and detail to undermine him.
It will be a long, hard road that's for sure.
Starmer is going to walk it
Be excellent if he did (for the Party and the Country) but I think the continuity Corbyn candidate will win because:
The YouGov poll does not include trade union members and registered supporters, both groups which heavily backed Corbyn for leader in 2015 and 2016 and might be expected to favour a candidate fro the left of the party this time around.
RLB is notable for absolutely nothing other than being championed by Corbyn and McDonnell
Unfortunately I suspect that will be enough and the ‘continuity Corbyn’ will win it.
In which case the Labour Party might as well call it a day
Labour’s manifesto included a 4 day week for everyone – including children, teachers and school staff.
You do understand that “four day week” is a reference to hours worked, and could be spread over five days (as school weeks already are for kids) or condensed into three long days? Not that the policy was a vote winner, as it was seen as irrelevant tosh to most working people… but it in no way barred kids from going to school five days a week.
You do understand that “four day week” is a reference to hours worked, and could be spread over five days
Errr, no I didn't, I've just checked the Manifesto and you're right. I've only heard it described as a four day week. (And I follow plenty of Labour MPs on Twitter and Labour MPs were describing it as a 4 day week, not as a 32 hour week.)
My point still holds true. Labour would have been a bit mental to make an issue of kids spending less time at school if they're openly planning to give all school staff 5 1/2 hours off every week.
Unfortunately I suspect that will be enough and the ‘continuity Corbyn’ will win it.
She hasn't even officially entered yet. Given her less than overwhelming contribution to the debate (left patriotism or whatever it was), and the clear lack of enthusiasm for her I wouldn't be surprised if McDonnell, Rayner et al are holed up trying to work out whether to put Rayner forward instead.
FWIW not a single lefty I know thinks RLB is the right candidate to represent the left. She's clearly the wrong choice, but if Rayner is steadfast in not standing then there's not really anyone else. RLB will need to do something pretty dramatic because at the moment the feeling I get about her is one of apathy, and I'm not the only one who has changed their mind on Starmer.
I've been telling you for ages that much of momentum comes from the green/anti-war/global justice activist network rather than the old militant left. Who do you think they're going to vote for? Len McCluskey's sock puppet, or someone who fought the fight with them back in the day and kept them out of trouble?
The YouGov poll does not include trade union members and registered supporters, both groups which heavily backed Corbyn for leader in 2015 and 2016 and might be expected to favour a candidate fro the left of the party this time around.
Full members also heavily backed Corbyn.
Don’t they just nip in to the Ivy and ask Len?
Having re-joined and now in Lincoln so a different part of the country to when I was a member previously, searched online for information about local party but....nothing.
Then looked for local events but was offered Stevenage which, last time I looked, wasn't near to Lincoln.
Party website homepage still shows 'our manifesto'; wonder what will replace it - and when.
Time to find out how active they are.
It doesn't really matter what a handful of people on this thread think. None of us have a clue who would go down best with the public. The policies are largely democratic so would be similar under any leader so the key thing is getting the leader the public want/will think is good.
Remember the public won't be deeply involved in Labour politics, assessing what each leader has done in the past, what they have stood for, who they are in bed with - they will be judged on what they say and how they act as the Leader and unfortunately if they are likeable
I'm not sure this fear of the Union vote will hold up. When it comes to the final round I can't see many of the members of my Union voting for RLB. We're not all headbanging lefties that do what our Union Overlords say you know!
Rone – the question is ‘who could make the Labour Party electable again?’
But you're giving up everything that makes sense about correcting the damage done by the Tories for what you believe to be a popular candidate. I don't get that.
Corbyn didn't do it - accepted - but his path should be essentially tweaked and followed - without the Brexit debate being front and centre I think we're still on course without resorting to Jess Philips. It's just going to take a while. 18 years last time - 18 years ... even with Blair.
It's your vote. Which I respect Binrade.
It doesn’t really matter what a handful of people on this thread think. None of us have a clue who would go down best with the public. The policies are largely democratic so would be similar under any leader so the key thing is getting the leader the public want/will think is good.
I like this to a point - but has to be reconciled with the membership.
This is all actually a good thing - a few more members is great and more discussion and democracy of the Labour's future is fine with me.
No love for Clive Lewis then?
I like the bloke.
No love for Clive Lewis then?
Absolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.
Watching Marr this morning it's clear who the front runner is. Phillips was a complete car crash. Starmer has a job to do on brexit though. He wants to draw a line under it, but his opponents are not going to let him. Also Marr is a shockingly bad interviewer who barely conceals his contempt for anyone who isn't a tory.
I'm curious as to why RLB is so quiet and hasn't officially entered the race yet. Either they think the backing from the big unions means it's already in the bag, or second thoughts? I wonder whether she really doesn't want it and is being pushed into it? I can almost see Lavery stepping in as the Corbynite candidate.
Absolutely, but the cruel truth is that this massively racist country will never vote for a black leader.
I'm torn.
I know someone I trust who has worked closely with him and can't speak highly enough of the guy.
Are we really more backward than America in this respect?
My heart would love to think we've moved on.
My head says we're going backwards.
We are not as backward as America no, but then America is incredibly backward in matters of race.
I also like Clive Lewis but I don't think he is not someone who would win over the public.
Any clever party would already be doing that analysis as part of the candidate selection process. No could getting a brilliant leader internally for the Labour party if the public hate them.
despite my earlier post saying i’d never be a member, I just joined up
With those iron principles the Labour party's future is assured.
Rayner has now declared candidacy for deputy leader - but still nothing from RLB; does that suggest second thoughts on her part or the current leadership?
Phillips was a complete car crash.
I've zero love for Marr - but her response on 'rewinding' Brexit would be the death knell for her.
(Although I think she's changed her tune again from what I read this morning.)
I think Rayner has already said she’s backing RLB… looks like they are timing her own announcement carefully… presumably with a eye to who the unions will refuse to nominate first.
As for Phillips, if saying that if Brexit turns out to be disaster than Labour could back joining the EU is so controversial, I don’t see how any leader is going to successfully navigate that kind of questioning. To be honest, the most practical answer is “the other nations will never accept us being full members, with all our special opt outs, again… a close relationship without veto or formal voting rights is all they can really offer us in future. As it happens, an economic rather than political closeness is pretty much what the British public seem to want as well.”
Clive Lewis… I like the bloke.
So do I. But, other than the obvious problem about England&Wales voters already noted, he does have a habit of using language that only appeals to people who already identify with being “of the left”, he doesn’t seem to know how to speak to the nation as a whole.