I've got a "Look at me/steal me" type R with lots of BHP, I love it and yes it is a lot of fun to drive. It cost me £3k I've done 30k miles in it over 3 years and it'd probably still sell for £2k if I needed to sell it too. I'd never buy new, not forecourt new but I have been looking at newer cars recently, I do wonder who people fund Range Rovers and the like!
Thats my point. People are scared of a £1000 bill that they may get to repair something big if it goes wrong but will happily pay £10k over 3 years in depreciation.
But you get something for your £10k - a shiny new car. You get nothing for your repair bill, you just get put back to where you were in the first place.
When you have a 900kg car its very hard to sell it as reassuringly expensive when the doors etc are very light/sound tinn'y.
It's more about safety and getting a 5 star ncap rating imo.
Do you REALLY need ABS? Whens the last time you used it?
Bad example. ABS saves tons of lives, it's a no brainer. Electric windows, heated seats and a 7 speaker stereo would be better examples.
But there's no point in asking the manufacturers to make £5k simple cars when you can get a 4 year old nice one for £5k.
To clarify, it wasn't an S3, it was a 2.0 TDi SLine with plenty of extras.
Jesus £36k for a car that is small, harsh ride, doesnt go around corners, and is a diesel!
Whilst the very notion of "value" is entirely subjective, i find it amazing what people spend on their cars. I'm not talking about Ferraris or Lambos or whatever, no, those you expect to be expensive and niche, but the cost of otherwise more normal cars, like say the new F type Jag. Buying that car will not change your life. it's a nice convertable/coupe but that's it, and yet it seems to cost £70k? Who IS buying these things??
molgrips - Member
But there's no point in asking the manufacturers to make £5k simple cars when you can get a 4 year old nice one for £5k.
I'd rather have the new, simple one. 🙂
You're in the minority. Why not set up a company importing the new simple cars from India or China, see how many you sell 🙂
it's a nice convertable/coupe but that's it, and yet it seems to cost £70k? Who IS buying these things??
I for one am very very grateful to people who take out finance on new cars.
An example:
Mercedes CLS350 Grand Edition
£51,000 new in 2010
£17,000 approved used from Mercedes with 40k on the clock
Ownership for first 40,000 miles = £36,000 (£51k - approx £15k trade in)
Ownership for next 40,000 miles = £11,000 (£17k - approx £6k sale)
Bonkers!
An extended warranty is around £50 per month after the first 12 months, so an extra £1,800 on the used buy if you want a total of 4 years peace of mind.
The problem I have with new cars is the depreciation, just scary to think how much it costs.A few people I know buy new cars every 3 years so they avoid the cost of MOT's and service/repair bills. To me that is madness, spending thousands to avoid potential bills of 100's.
I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe that they are saving money by buying a new car every 3 years, but I don't believe the majority are that thick. More will do it to avoid the hassle of dealing with repairs etc, that will happen with greater frequency as a car ages (plus, don't forget the manufacturers warranty). Obviously, not the most economic way of doing it, but if you are busy enough, and have the money, the lack of hassle is very valuable. Oh, and before some clever dick wants to justify their thriftiness at buying old, cheap cars, I am aware they can be reliable if you pick the right one/maintain it yourself/are not fussy about driving something crap.
Mercedes CLS350 Grand Edition£51,000 new in 2010
£17,000 approved used from Mercedes with 40k on the clockOwnership for first 40,000 miles = £36,000 (£51k - approx £15k trade in)
Ownership for next 40,000 miles = £11,000 (£17k - approx £6k sale)Bonkers!
£279.92 + VAT per month for a CLS250 CDI AMG on a personal lease.
That's who's "buying" new ones and why you get so many 10k per year, mint condition examples on the 2nd hand forecourts.
I used to work in the motor trade and couldn't understand why people would buy new - but as a 17 year old, I thought that what all people done if they had money - whilst I drove a £100 banger
Now, 20 years on, i'm doing pretty well financially, but wouldn't dream of buying a new car - jesus - i wouldn't even spend £3K on a car
I'm currently driving a '97 Audi A4 estate. It cost £700 just over 2 years ago, i've done 30,000 miles in it and its been 100% reliable. I've maybe spent £500 of repairs/tyres
It seats 5 people, has 150 bhp, full leather, ABS, air con, a stereo, will swallow lots of bikes and goes plenty quick enough
So, its cost me about £50 per month since i've had it.
To get the equivalent A4 on finance would cost me about £4K deposit and £300 per month for 3 years and THEN i'd have to think about the depreciation
Utterly bonkers - so let some other mug take the sting and then i can spend all my money on shiny new bikes and bits 🙂
Loaded with electronics and gadgets because that's what the customer wants/what you can market. Do you REALLY need ABS? Whens the last time you used it?
Driving normally? Twice, ever. And I'd have given everything I own to have had it, both times.
£279.92 + VAT per month for a CLS250 CDI AMG on a personal lease.
I knew a lad who was paying £400 a month to lease a car.
He couldn't afford 2xContinental tyres.
I remember seeing some stats on it, aren't the majority of new cars 'sold' actually company cars or finance/PH/lease?
Only something like 30% of sales are proper 'cash' sales.
70% of new Mercs are on lease deals.
Do you REALLY need ABS?
Regardless, ABS are required on all new passenger cars sold in the EU since 2007.
if you want cheap AND new, buy a Dacia. Their most expensive model costs less than many models of Ford Focus; their cheapest is slightly less than £6k
ok the cheapest won't have any toys but so what?
£279.92 + VAT per month for a CLS250 CDI AMG on a personal lease.
Where are you getting that figure?
Most personal leases I can see are upwards of £400-500 inc VAT?
FWIW I just thought the Golf GTI was a good example of an everyman car - not to big, not too small, not too, fast not too slow, solid mid range manufacturer - that the average person could reasonably own if they wanted one. I didn't realise it was nearly £30k for a new one
Since when has a Golf GTI been any of these? It's the sports version of a semi premium brand. It's been 25k+ for years, before options.
Audi prides itself on being premium. The Seat Ibiza or Skoda Octavia are the 'everyman' version. The Golf is the upmarket one, the A3 the poshest one. Why would any one expect it to be cheap?
For the record I don't think new cars are that bad a deal these days. In 1989 the Ford Fiesta 1.6S was just short of 10k. In 1999 I bought a Fiesta Zetec for £9200 that out performed the old 1.6S in virtually every way. I bet the base spec Fiesta available now (11k ish?) has improved a great deal over my old Zetec. Not bad IMO.
I've just got back in to new cars after a while in second hand and don't consider myself 'thick'. I pay X per month and will give it back before it needs any new parts, including tyres. I will then get another new one.
If I bought a couple of year old one for say 10k I'd have to get a loan which would cost Y per month for 5 years say. In that time I'd have to cover everything that wears out (Tyres at £100+ each, cambelt, clutch etc) and hope that nothing else went wrong. I'd also have to MOT it each year. With the miles I do the now 7 year old car would be well worn by the time it was paid off and worth next to nothing so I'd be looking to change and would have to get another loan to pay for it.
To me the new option is much better and doesn't actually cost much more.
But you get something for your £10k - a shiny new car. You get nothing for your repair bill, you just get put back to where you were in the first place.But how long does the shiny new stage last for? A week, a month, then you are just paying for a normal car.
Now, 20 years on, i'm doing pretty well financially, but wouldn't dream of buying a new car - jesus - i wouldn't even spend £3K on a car
The majority of people doing pretty well financially wouldn't dream of spending £3k+ on a push bike and would rather put that towards a shiny 2.0tdi with big wheels and a built in sat-nav.
People making sacrifices in order to buy something they enjoy shocker!
I've just got back in to new cars after a while in second hand and don't consider myself 'thick'. I pay X per month and will give it back before it needs any new parts, including tyres. I will then get another new one.
A lot of it depends on the standard of car you want.
For some people, the main priority is having the "status" of a brand new car and no risk of surprise bills (which is why you so see so many bottom end BMWs/Mercs etc out and about).
Some people would prefer to have a better car and aren't so fussed about it not being brand new.
A lot of it comes down to affordability too. I couldn't/wouldn't be able to justify spending £36k on depreciation for a CLS350, but I could justify £11k. So it comes down to simple maths for me.
That same £11k could rent me a brand new basic C200.
Hmmmm, a 2010 CLS350 Grand Edition v 2014 C200. It's a no brainer for me, but I'm sure for others the quality of the car/engine comes second to having a 2014 plate car.
If people stopped buying new cars it would kill off the 2nd hand market, you can't have one without the other!
Which is why I said:
I for one am very very grateful to people who take out finance on new cars.
🙂
Them fulfilling their goal for 3 years makes it possible for me to fulfil mine!
But how long does the shiny new stage last for? A week, a month, then you are just paying for a normal car.
Excatly. That's what I said to my dad. He wanted a diesel but thought he couldn't afford one for £10k - for some reason he was insisting on 1 year old.
There's a bit of difference in niceness terms (but not much) between a 1yo and 3yo car, 5 years later there's no difference between a 6 and 8 year old car. But you've still paid double.
Anyway - buying a new car to get a 3 year warranty is stupid. The extra cost of the car far outweighs any repairs it'll need. If you really want hassle free buy a 3 year old Kia.
In my mind the 'cost' of a car is: the cost of maintenance, plus depreciation plus the interest on any money I have borrowed to finance it. (I'm assuming in this example that mpg, insurance, etc. are similar). A higher purchase price doesn't always mean higher 'cost'.
I'm definately getting old.
Loads of folk saying that used car values are through the floor and here's me thinking that used car values have suddenly gone through the roof.
Bought my current Mondeo estate at 3 y/o and 40k in 2008. Paid a ticket price of nearly £7k but that included an artificially high trade in so maybe real cost of about £6k.
Run it for another 120k over 6 years, now thinking about a change. Worth nowt now, so that's a £1k per year cost of depreciation.
If I look at an equivalent motor now, they all seem to be at the £10k mark. On the same 6 year cycle, depreciating to nowt, that's £1.6k per year in depreciation. Second hand motor cost is therefore up >60% by my logic 🙁
i.e. a 60% price hike
To me the new option is much better and doesn't actually cost much more.
There is that. Running old bangers at 20mpg ended up costing me more than I could get an equivalent new Aygo on PCP just on the difference in monthly petrol costs alone. Didn't make sense, so the banger went. However, the 2003 Fiesta I got to replace my 20 year old Volvo with still does over 40mpg where the more modern petrol cars struggle to get near 50mpg by all accounts. The ten year old Fiesta was better value for me.
As a family we used to buy new, and it was nice for a week or so. Month down the line it's just another car being used to take stuff to the dump. Everybody I've ever known in the motor trade looks at new cars as a waste of money. That is unless they are trying to sell you one....
Tend not to agree with the big bill scenario. If you're running a £700 car and it needs repair work, it goes in the big skip in the sky.
But how long does the shiny new stage last for? A week, a month, then you are just paying for a normal car.
As soon as you park in a Supermarket carpark on a Saturday afternoon.
I would like a golf please, except I would ideally like to pay a further £2k more for it.
Youll be wanting an Audi a3 then sir! May I suggest a white one?
We can't ALL buy second hand can we?!
The forecourt price for new cars is like the RRP for bike stuff.
I'd rather wait a few years, and buy the same frame/bike/kit second hand.
Some people will ONLY buy new, then sell it on after 12/18 months. They accept the depreciation in value as "annual cost" of their hobby, cycling.
I added up the RRP on [i]all[/i] the bikes in our garage (which get used, equally), it was about £15k+
BMX alone was close to £1k, and that gets ragged around the race track every week!
There are big discounts available against the list price of a lot (but not all) of new cars. You might have to go further than your local dealer, and/or be good at negotiating, but there are often big discounts to be had.
Its rare that you should pay the list/sticker/rrp price.
I just bought a new car, for 18% under the list price. it involved travelling a 500 mile round trip to get that deal , but I dont mind that for a significant cost saving.
You might have to go further than your local dealer, and/or be good at negotiating, but there are often big discounts to be had.
You didn't need to travel so far...Drivethedeal seem to be pretty good!
You didn't need to travel so far...Drivethedeal seem to be pretty good!
the best drivethedeal (& others) could do for the car I wanted was 13% discount off the price of the car without options, and no discount off the options themselevs, so it was still worth the (relatively minor) hassle to save 18% of the total price of the car with options. It worked out as roughly double the discount that drive the deal offered.
But drivethedeal and co are good for those that dont like to negotiate, and or want zero hassle.
I have always been a second hand car person, that is until the m135i was brought out. I decided I couldn't wait around for a second hand 3 year old one plundered my savings and took out an 11k loan to get one.
I did negotiate around 6k off the list price though, but at 30k, it was still more than twice what we'd ever spent on a car.
I have always been a second hand car person, that is until the m135i was brought out
my discount mentioned above was also on an m135i.
Great car - well worth it.
There are great deals about, my current car had about 4k off a list of 19k.
As mentioned, it does not cost me much more then a 5 year bank loan would for a second hand one.
By the time I'd finished paying for my last second hand car it was due a new clutch, had just cost £800 for an MOT, was near to needing a cambelt change (Quoted £600 at mates rates), had cost £300 in tyres the year before and had various other parts on the way out. Had I got everything fixed it would have cost more then it was worth, more then I got for the trade in. As said before, it would still have been an old car with plenty of miles on the clock.
It seems that everyone on here either drives a top end Merc/BMW/Audi or a banger. 🙄
Paying cash for an old brand new (new/facelift model had just released) Merc. estate with lots of extras got a 25% discount along with a good trade in, as a family member got with their latest car 😉
Worked out considerably cheaper than the A3 the OP mentioned
To me the new option is much better and doesn't actually cost much more.
Well there is 20% VAT that gets wiped off the moment you take the keys...
PCP deals are designed specifically to keep people in new cars and on typically 3 year turn arounds.
They are affordable for new car models with good residuals and mean you get drive a Merc for the same price as a Kia. The problem with PCP deals is if you ever want to come out of one.
There are some incredible lease deals out there if you know where to look. Earlier in the year you could get the brand new Golf R for £280 a month with around £2k down and as said above, most Mercs are sold to lease companies. The problem with leases is you are fixed in for the term and have heavy penalties for going over a mileage allowance.
Key thing for me on the PCP approach is that you're left with nothing at the end, except the option to take on another financial liability for a new arrangement, or the minimum value payment. At least if you buy outright you have some 'equity' on your depreciating asset.
Also, new cars aren't always the worst option, it depends how long you intend to keep them for.
It's swings and roundabouts and will depend on how many miles you do. What I do works for me. If I got a couple of year old car and kept it a while it'd be worth very little when I came to sell so I wouldn't be any worse off then if I needed to stop the scheme I use.
I might agree that if you had the money in the bank so didn't need to borrow then a couple of year old car might make more sense then new but if you have to borrow the money I think some of the offers on new are hard to beat and I'd much prefer to spend a little more each month and stay in a new car then save a bit but run an older car with all the potential extra costs.
Don't mind me, I'm one of the muppets who buys new as he likes the smell, and can specify a sunroof.
With pcp these days a lot if manufacturer structure the deal such that the car is worth a couple of grand more than the amount oustanding, so that you have something as a deposit on the next car, that way you just keep the monthly repayments going and get a new car.
Horses for courses really, what works for one person might not work for another. It's impossible to generalise, you can't say all leases are good, all pcp is bad, buying cash is best etc etc. It all depends on the exact deal in question.
Agreed Julians and Bain. I was just responding originally to the 'brains trust' that decided anyone who buys new is a brain dead idiot.
I was just responding originally to the 'brains trust' that decided anyone who buys new is a brain dead idiot.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that. Also, there's a huge difference between someone who buys new and keeps the car for a long time v someone who buys new and sells after 3 years v someone who rents.
There have been some lease deals recently that have made renting a new car even more financially prudent than buying a much older model. I regularly cite it as an example, but the 330d touring was going for £300 a month (inc VAT). That's some amount of car for £10k over 3 years, you'd struggle to get close to that on the second hand market.
So in many instances it makes financial sense to buy new. I think anyone who appeared to be having a pop at new car buyers (certainly the ones I noticed anyway) we criticising the logic fails in their value for money calculations (e.g. buying new to save road tax).
I'd love a new car, everyone would, but the cars I want don't come within my budget new, but definitely do after a few years.
Again, it comes back to how you want to spend a similar amount of money - the newest but most basic model in the range, or a used model with a better spec and engine.
I'm slightly jaded since I seem to be surrounded by people who love to rent the smallest engine in an expensive brand, just to own the badge. A chap at work has a 2007 E63 and was recently asked (by someone in an arbonne cruiser) if it wasn't about time he got a new car since he'd had that one for ages 🙂
If another deal like the 330d came around, i'd bite their hand off. I'm definitely not against renting/buying new, provided it makes at least some financial sense.
(I can't really talk about financial sense to be fair, i don't have much, but it sounds sensible when I type it at least 🙂 )
