Etymology is great.
In English, especially in the past, the words Maiden and Virgin could often be interchanged. There is no obvious link between the two words. However, as many Munro baggers will know, there is a peak in Wester Ross named a'Mhaighdean. Remove most of the consonants from the Gaelic name and you're left with Maiden, that being the English translation. However, it's pronounced a va-jin, or, as Madonna would say, like a virgin 🙂
There’s only rule when it comes to pronouncing someone’s name – pronounce it how they would like you to
Sorry, not in Colin Powell's case.
Just no.
I have a now dearly departed work colleague who was troubled by having a Gaelic name that a lot of people wouldn't know how to pronounce it. It's not a partially common name so even in Scotland a lot of people would struggle. We're an industry of freelancers and a lot of work leads approaches from listing in trade publications. She found paying for listings problematic as she was worried that people would see her name, have anxiety about pronouncing it and skip past it to the next on the list. So she set up and email address / URL in include on those listing that was basically phonetic instructions on how to pronounce it.
I've also noticed a a couple of Mhairi's I know spell it at Vary on their business social media
I have a speech impediment, lisp and a stutter. It’s a lot less noticeable now so I can talk to people and they might not realise.
Part of the way I was taught to overcome my speech problems was to visualise words and break sentences down into parts. The downside to this is that I can’t pronounce a lot of words, when words are pronounced different than the English I always get it wrong. I work with a lot of Irish and have been told of on a number of occasions for what they consider as me being bloody minded English!
I knew three Irish brothers who taught English in Bangkok...
Gearoid, Donncha and Ciaran. I don't think I ever heard anyone pronounce their names correctly in 2 years of working and hanging out with them 😆
Tbh most native English speakers would have trouble with the first two.
It’s not that hard to Google “pronunciation of Dave” and get loads of helpful links and videos.
Probably worth cross referencing a few sources - there may be some bad actors out there 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5y-o4D7hcE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y31jRIhtvqo
We live in Wales, the land of consonants
Try telling my mate Ieuan that.
Aoife usually pronounced a bit like eefa.
Two grate my carrot Gallagher pronounced Galagar
And the butchering of Menzies (Mingis)
And the butchering of Menzies
Because the letter yogh isn't available in the written English language.
Yoghurt?
and this is why I just greet everyone with a wave and a smile. Possibly a nod and a “how do” or “aye up” tis the safest way.
It’s not that hard to Google “pronunciation of Dave” and get loads of helpful links and videos.
Bullcrap.
Given it's a name that I'm familiar with (we all know several Daves, hence just about every Dave has to have a prefix: Fat Dave, One Arm Dave, Gay Dave (because he never smiles), Corsa Dave, etc) it never occurred to me that I've been mispronouncing it. No one ever complained before.
I tried googling it and it didn't help....
You pronounce Dave like wot Trigger does, innit bruvva.
Unless you're Dutch.
Just about every language that uses the Latin alphabet are agreed on the rough pronunciation of the letters.... Except the Gaelic, it seems.
Tbf, I thought the op was referring to a Thai name at first.
Fat Dave, One Arm Dave, Gay Dave (because he never smiles), Corsa Dave, etc)
Darren
Big Darren
Flu Strength Darren who had his elbows amputated
Just about every language that uses the Latin alphabet are agreed on the rough pronunciation of the letters…. Except the Gaelic, it seems.
Agreed with who? The Welsh? The Spanish?
English is riddled with discrepancies
Dalmatian (3 A’s pronounced differently)
Aggravating (3 A’s pronounced differently)
Extremely (3 E’s pronounced differently)
Parentheses (3 E’s pronounced differently)
Bioengineering (3 I’s pronounced differently)
Unyouthful (3 U’s pronounced differently)
Thoroughgoing (3 G’s pronounced differently)
I know 3 Mhairis. All pronounce it with an M.
Youngest is called Ruaridh. A lot of folk Cannae pronounce his name. An English type at work said he liked unusual names. I reminded him when I was at school there were more Ruaridhs than Jamies.
Ough can be prnounced in loads of ways in English
a huge number thought my Surname was my forename.
I used to work with a chap by the name of Harsh Dave. That confused the crap out of everyone even before you started worrying about pronunciations. (His surname was something like 'dah-vay' I think.)
Aoife usually pronounced a bit like eefa.
A mate's daughter is named Aoife and it's exactly as you say. Her mum was Welsh. Well, still is, I would assume.
Stupid letter combos and pronunciation lead to ghoti being pronounced fish.
gh as in tough
o as in women
ti as in staTIon
Going back a few hours when I started the thread did anyone else learn the songs I mentioned ,teacher an old dear she was used a tuning fork , no idea how that worked
Almost forgot about Kookaburra
Mari's wedding? Yep. Also "Donald where's yer troosers" and "ye cannae chuck yet granny" also one about jeely pieces.
Ye cannae fling pieces oot a twenty story flat
Seven hundred hungry weans will testify tae that
If the piece is jam or jeely
If the breed is plain or pan
The odds against it reaching Earth are ninety nine tae wan
Thats the best I can do from memory 🙂 god knows how much I have mangled the scots spelling
I have an Irish surname, I have just given up speaking it when asked if I know the person is going to write it down. As for how it gets pronounced when read!
Thing is it's a ****ing simple name if you have any knowledge of geography! I think it just sums up the level of education in England.
How to spell names is one of the hardest things I have had to learn here in Ireland. I have worked with a Sadhbh, Rionach, Saoirse, Caoimhe, Deirbhile, Fionn, Oisin,Tadhg to name few (possibly spelt wrong).
I'm still laughing at the idea that English pronunciation is straightforward
https://pronunciationstudio.com/7-pronunciations-ough/
And one of these "slough" pronounced like "ow" for a boggy hollow but "sluff" when its decaying flesh
Except the Gaelic, it seems.
I can only speak for Irish, start with the idea that h isn't a letter it is an accent/diacritic. the h simply tells you how to pronounce the preceding letter. You also have to consider which vowels are also present.
I take it you already know
of tough and bough and cough and dough?
Others may stumble, but not you
On hiccough, thorough, slough, and through?
Well done! And now you wish, perhaps
To learn of less familiar traps?
Beware of heard, a dreadful word
That looks like beard and sounds like bird.
And dead; it's said like bed, not bead;
For goodness sake, don't call it deed!
Watch out for meat and great and threat,
(they rhyme with suite and straight and debt)
A moth is not a moth in mother.
Nor both in bother, broth in brother.
And here is not a match for there.
And dear and fear for bear and pear.
And then there's dose and rose and lose -
Just look them up - and goose and choose.
And cork and work and card and ward,
And font and front and word and sword.
And do and go, then thwart and cart.
Come, come, I've hardly made a start.
A dreadful language? Why, man alive,
I'd learned to talk it when I was five,
And yet to write it, the more I tried,
I hadn't learned it at sixty-five!
See also 'The Chaos'
https://chateauview.com/pronunciation/
Aggravating (3 A’s pronounced differently)
Huh? What exactly are you doing with this?
Aggravating (3 A’s pronounced differently)
Huh? What exactly are you doing with this?
A1 = hard a as in apple
A2 = more like "uh"
A3 = long as in "eight" 😉
Same 3 a's as in "I ate an apple"
My three daughters have all Irish Gaelic names, pretty much vowel heavy. We live in Wales, the land of consonants, not once have their names been pronounced correctly
That's one reason why we didn't give our daughter an Irish name, even though we liked the sound of the name. Another reaosn was that as we have no Irish heritage it seemed a bit daft. MrsJ is Greek but we ruled out a Greek name for similar reasons. Ended up calling her an English name, and found out when she started school that it was one of the commonest names that year!
My sister gave her dutch kids English names. One of them is rarely pronounced properly in dutch - Nathan. I don't know if the TH sound does not exist in dutch but he gets Natan usually
I can only speak for Irish, start with the idea that h isn’t a letter it is an accent/diacritic. the h simply tells you how to pronounce the preceding letter. You also have to consider which vowels are also present.
Now that bespoke typewriters are no longer an expense and unicode is a thing I'm of the modest opinion that we should now return to the ponc séimhithe and get rid of the confusing rash of h.
I just routinely spell my name [presumably Jeremy] when giving it to someone to fill in a form or whatever as despite being a relatively normal name folk just don’t get the spelling right.
I often get "is that with a J or a G?" despite having NEVER encountered someone called Geremy.
(In an earlier life I worked in Texas for Elf Aquitaine Petroleum. Imagine how much fun that was to explain to locals. I'm particularly amused by the letter I once received addressed to Al's Equity.)
MrsJ is Greek but we ruled out a Greek name for similar reasons.
I've got a pal whose greek and has a name derived from Ancient Greek that even greek people don't know how to pronounce. She has quizzed her dad a few times on why he chose it, as he doesnt seem the type to have chosen something so pointedly unusual. He can't remember 🙂
I’ve got a pal whose greek and has a name derived from Ancient Greek that even greek people don’t know how to pronounce.
My (Greek) FIL was called Paris - no problem with the pronunciation but some confusion as he was an airline pilot.
Mhairi? my mate used to just call her "Meh - hairy" - to wind her up lol.
Learning Irish names is a vital teacher skill. As for Mhari, a notorious landmine. I used the usual pronounciation as a start but did get the odd M. Then I made sure I remembered.
A favourite example elsewhere, was the disgraced (brilliant genius by current standards) Chancellor Norman Lamont. He went for a pretentious mispronunciation of his name, so using the usual version really annoyed him.
Whoever formalised the spelling of Mhairi decided that a V was useless in that language despite there seemingly being a need for it.
Except that when the Latin alphabet was introduced in these islands, ‘v’ was pronounced as ‘w’.
