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@dannyh - whilst the status quo is usually more comfortable than change, the opposite side of your argument seems to be based on an assumption that everything would be better if we'd remained in. Genuine question, why then did the Remain campaign not manage to highlight this clear 'better future' to the majority who voted Leave? Surely it ought to have been simple and not required spin/exaggerations/lies.
I'm not saying in or out is best as I don't have the ability to predict the future with certainty but asking the Leave voters to evidence their plan for the better is not a convincing argument that remaining would have been better (leaving always involved uncertainty over negotiations involving others that couldn't possibly be predicted).
Richinbish. What a huge steaming pile of emotive, little Britain, spiteful bullshit.
How much of a piss take is it for the old to tell others to roll up ther sleaves and work harder whilst relaxing in their mortgage free houses with a healthy pension pot, just after voting to make the economy worse.
@mdavids do you even know how a pension pot is funded ? It depends how well the economy is doing , this is becoming more comical by the minute
yup the baby boomers ****ed us...
The future is now entirely in your hands.
The great illusion that has fooled so many.
We have just unleashed a series of events that we are unprepared for and unlikely to be able to contol
#fakecontrol
#outofcontrol
[quote=richinbish ]@mdavids do you even know how a pension pot is funded ?
Yes. Do you know what happens to that pension pot when you retire and take your pension, and how much is the amount of pension you get every month affected by the state of the economy?
The future is now entirely in your hands.
It's a shame about the handcuffs and blindfold
Genuine question, why then did the Remain campaign not manage to highlight this clear 'better future' to the majority who voted Leave?
They did. It was in the sodding great booklet that went through everyone's front door. The same booklet that 100% of the people I know who voted 'leave' didn't bother to read. The same booklet that everyone I know who voted 'remain' did read.
Willful ignorance followed by an economically disastrous decision followed by repeating over and over again "don't call us names, we're all in it together now, let's all pull in the same direction". Can you now appreciate why I am absolutely ****ing livid?
And yes, I did use "we're all in it together" deliberately, because the last time that one got trotted out all anyone could do was have a pop at Dave and Gideon.
Now an ignorant (willful or genuinely) majority have dropped us down a big, dark, shit-filled hole and are getting narky when the barely smaller minority get pissy with them.
What the **** are we going to do to offset the economic disaster? Because here's the thing, if I was going to tip the apple cart over in the vain hope of starting over again, I'd have a very clear plan of what needs to happen from day one.
All the knuckle-dragging halfwit in the street can go on about is what 'we' have been freed [u]from[/u] (and they have mostly got that wrong too). So what have 'we' been freed [u]for[/u]? What positive steps are in place or being put in place quickly to deliver this vaguely defined utopia?
I don't know how many more times I can post on here, because trying to reason with idiots is the definition of insanity. There won't be a different outcome however many times you try.
WHAT IS THE PLAN?
Danny would you have been able quantify the next 2 years? Are you sure you could guarantee it?No.
Danny would you have been able quantify the next 2 years? Are you sure you could guarantee it?No.
See you in two years mate. One or both of us might be living under a bridge by then, of course.
What's the plan?
Danny would you have been able quantify the next 2 years? Are you sure you could guarantee it?No.
You don't need to be able to guarantee it, you just need to provide a roadmap, based on expert advice and pre-discussions on what would happen in the event of a leave vote and how the country can be positioned to best deal with what's coming.
He blamed nobody, threatened nothing and sucked it up to say it was time now to regroup, rebuild and get back to business. He was also honest enough to understand the mood in much of the country and step down gracefully.
Haha - that's so fwking naive.
He has just politely offered the key of No. 10 to BoJo and said "you're the one who's crapped in the duvet - you clean it up"
🙄
Genuine question, why then did the Remain campaign not manage to highlight this clear 'better future' to the majority who voted Leave?
As has been stated many times (other thread), it's much harder to sell the benefits of "carry on as you are". We all know exactly how we were doing last week - whether shit, comfortable, optimistic or no hope for the future.
Loads of financial info on how the economy / country was doing (i.e. Remain case) was available and [s]has[/s] had a name - "The News", any many, many folks don't give two hoots about the news, the economy, politics etc - presumably that's why so many were googling the EU after the referendum 😯
And also, the same people (voters and VL politicians / campaigners) didn't give two hoots about reasonably informed people saying that an out vote would unleash a storm of shit. IT REALLY WASNT PROJECT FEAR. It was people desperately trying to get the uniformed / impossible to be informed / wilfully ignorant that they were racing full speed for a cliff edge
Whether it was economists, politicians, "experts", or just knowledgeable STW forum users wanting to express their concerns - very few (nobody?) appeared to be interested in listening to factual information or reasonably constructed forecasts.
Are Remain supporters bitter - too right. For me, because the info was there, the implications far reaching and the electorate (many that I heard) not interested in taking an informed decision ON THE ISSUES AT HAND.
Are Remain supporters poor losers - well unfortunately, I suspect we all will be...
... and our children...
... and our grandchildren
You don't need to be able to guarantee it, you just need to provide a roadmap, based on expert advice and pre-discussions on what would happen in the event of a leave vote and how the country can be positioned to best deal with what's coming.
In actual fact you don't even have to quantify it, all you have to show is that one side would be better than the other. So, with a pound that has already lost 8% of it value when I last looked, hundreds of billions wiped off the FTSE and it looking likely that the AAA credit rating rating wil get downgraded, which looks the better option right now?
I posted this on FB earlier - to try and put that £350M lie into context...
No £350M per week for NHS (no surprise)
No kerbs on immigration...
No truth in the Leave campaign???
£120 billion off London stock market - equivalent to running:
HM Armed Forces for FOUR YEARS...!
Or the NHS for ONE FULL YEARAnd globally £1.24 trillion wiped off stock markets - ONE DAY's global losses equivalent to 10 years' UK NHS Budget
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending ]The £350M p/w & Immigration Lies[/url]
Just so those that are saying suck it up and get on with it can have half a fwking clue what they're talking about 👿
@dannyh - cheers. My query was more why an apparently compelling message couldn't be landed persuasively.
We'll have to see what the future holds but I'm inclined to think there's mutual benefit to everyone involved limiting the negative impacts so with some upside it won't be the economic disaster you fear. If the EU continues its expansion and fails then it might prove to be akin to the potentially disastrous euro decision which never was.
This is why i'm not bending over and taking the vote leave result without voicing my opinions, an incredibly ignorant selection of voters from Romford and i genuinally do feel for the young girl (Fay) at the start of the video who voted remain.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36626004 ]Link to BBC clip here, it may leave you shaking your head in disgust[/url]
This is probably the most far fetched, overly optimistic tenuous line of approach ever, but given how the challenge to the result based on requiring a higher majority isn't really going to work, could you base a challenge on accusations of fraud instead?
It's one thing to say you're going to do one thing and then just be rubbish at it or not get round to it, but to claim something then immediately say that's not what you meant after people took you for your word seems sufficiently dishonest to be worth investigating...
This is why i'm not bending over and taking the vote leave result without voicing my opinions, an incredibly ignorant selection of voters from Romford and i genuinally do feel for the young girl (Fay) at the start of the video who voted remain.Link to BBC clip here, it may leave you shaking your head in disgust
I don't think I can feel disgust for those muppets. I genuinely feel sorry for them.
As for the single mum, I could hazard a guess why she might also get quite a lot of stick apart from her political views, but I'll leave the rest of you to fill in the gaps on that one.
I still feel that the anger towards the English/Welsh people who voted out is mis-placed.
The Eton/Oxford well educated, not too old, father of children, leader of Remain stated that if he hadn't got the concessions he negotiated earlier in the year, that he would not have ruled out backing a leave vote.
So if you didn't think the concessions were up to much, and the well educated not too old leader of Remain thought they were the only difference between in and out, then a less well educated, maybe even old, person could be forgiven for thinking that the decision was marginal and a leave vote was not an unreasonable thing to do, particularly as these balance tipping concessions weren't guaranteed to be ratified.
That video is sad and terrifying. The old classic immigrant stance. On one hand they're lazy, uneducated and unskilled. Yet on the other hand they're stealing all the jobs 🙄
Stanhope sums it up perfectly as always
Don't worry, I'm sure that when more companies pull out of the north and Wales and more unemployed people come cap in hand for even more of Londoners' taxes, London will be only to happy to help. #NeverForget
And I have to say - those who are carping on that Scotland should accept the result...
... yes they should - there result was IN
I would have been upset if Scotland had left the Union in 2014(?), but it's their choice to make - but TBH, Scotland's politicians have shown themselves as head and shoulders above England & Wales'.
Say what you like about Sturgeon - she's canny, an addroit politician and appears to be working her butt off to look after the Country she represents