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"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. "
Who said that then?
Pretentious, moi?
You've not met JY then?
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It's a pretty emotive topic teasel. Of course people are going to get a bit wound up. Add to this the various histories between various posters, who, if they're honest, often taken positions in accordance with the positions taken by the posters they dislike the most.
Otherwise, with your little essay on Junkyard, you might be overthinking things.
Given the subject at hand, it's a credit to the contributors (and mods who I assume have had to keep a handle on things all along) that it's stayed open this long. Your entry (or maybe re-entry...I have no idea if you've posted earlier) on the last page (I think) seemed purely designed to have a go at a few people - mainly JY.
Either join in the debate, accept that there's a bit of thread drift from time to time in a 43 page thread, or just read it and fume quietly.
[i]Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.[/i]
I don't know who said it, but I'm sure they were thinking of junky! 😕
Who said that then?
Plato.
I believe he also invented the plate and various other eating utensils...
The excellent vice news, well worth watch IMO - Dispathces 2 (featuring Paris Imam) and 3 (rally coverage plus commentary from journalists on the roof who had filmed some of the attack and who had filmed a documentary featuring one of the jihadists)
seemed purely designed to have a go at a few people - mainly JY.
Nope, just pointing out the racism thing as asked by another user.
And I have made a few (probably worthless) contributions to the thread earlier on. My point has nothing to do with thread deviation and I find it weird that's what you took from my post. What were you saying about preconceptions earlier...
"Who said that then?
Plato."
Did he really source for that?
Plato.
This attribution is to be doubted, there is no record of it in his dialogues.
If Plato was a alive today he's be sending abusive tweets to Katie Hopkins
Did he really source for that?
This attribution is to be doubted, there is no record of it in his dialogues.
🙂
Good stuff, guys. Really good stuff....
Nope, just pointing out the racism thing as asked by another user.
But as JY and I pointed out, noone was "called a racist".
Anyway, I have no desire to make any more points on it to you. That kind of thing just gets the thread closed.
But as JY and I pointed out, noone was "called a racist".
And I pointed out I disagree. I think it was pretty clear.
Anyway, I have no desire to make any more points on it to you.
🙂
Okay, fella. That's fine by me.
Plato and in particular the 'republic' are quite relevant to the topic in particular his pro censorship arguments and his view that there was no place for an artist in a "just" city .
It is not just the Dialogues that don't contain the quote it is entire body of work in so far as I can gather.
The use of the pseudo quote is also relevant to the thread in general with received "wisdom" from the internet being put forward as definitive fact.
any way I only came back to this to post about Dewsbury it is a hole it has been for my life time that is nothing to do with race or religion it is to do with the death of the mills the poor location in terms of transit links and the poor housing stock . given the decline of local industry its only viable function is as a dormitory town but it has poor links and the houses are not attractive to people who can afford to commute. (lived up the hill in posh Ossett)
The excellent vice news
Imagine if Murdoch owned a good chunk of Vice News!!!
Oh, hang on...
Well this should make this year's summer holiday destination choice easier - the Prime Minister of Turkey is now on record as saying that the massacre in Paris was actually staged by the French as an excuse to attack Islam and Muslims:“The duplicity of the west is obvious,” Recep Tayyip Erdogan said at a press conference on Monday evening. “As Muslims we have never sided with terror or massacres: racism, hate speech, Islamophobia are behind these massacres. The culprits are clear: French citizens undertook this massacre and Muslims were blamed for it,”
The leader of Turkey's AK Party goes one better:
“Mossad [the Israeli intelligence service] is definitely behind such incidents?.?.?.?it is boosting enmity towards Islam.” Mr Gokcek linked the attacks to French moves towards recognising Palestine. And Ali Sahin, a member of Turkey’s parliament and foreign affairs spokesman for the AK party, last week set out eight reasons why he suspected the killings were staged so that “the attack will be blamed on Muslims and Islam”
IMO Turkey should have been booted out of Nato a long time ago.
Not seen him posting on the Singletrack forum, but I hear he has made the odd appearance on Pistonheads and is still alive and well.binners - Member
If Plato was a alive today he's be sending abusive tweets to Katie Hopkins
Oh [i]that[/i] Plato.
Farage on Fox News.
[url= http://video.foxnews.com/v/3985683598001/nigel-farage-says-europe-has-suffered-from-moral-cowardice/?#sp=show-clips ]http://video.foxnews.com/v/3985683598001/nigel-farage-says-europe-has-suffered-from-moral-cowardice/?#sp=show-clips[/url]
Jaw dropping stuff from both people involved.
I know we all think JHJ is a bit OTT with his conspiracy stuff but if what Fox News puts out is believed by most Americans who watch it then maybe there is a bit of a conspiracy going on in that area - it's just bonkers stuff.
Farage loves it, of course, as it gives him an open goal to shoot at.
You can see why Turkey might have reason to doubt Israel
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10203726 ]9 activists on ship bringing aid to Gaza killed by Israeli commandos in international waters[/url]
[url= http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/un-panel-israel-suppressing-footage-of-gaza-flotilla-raid-1.316201 ]What the BBC report fails to mention is that Israeli authorities confiscated footage from journalists aboard the flotilla[/url]
This footage managed to be smuggled out:
Good vids Jambalaya, with most views represented. "Le Pen" is pronounced the same as in English BTW, rather than the journalist's "pain" as in bread.
I've been following German and French media throughout but STW is my only source for the UK reaction. I've been contributing the odd anecdote but left it to Binners to make pretty much the same contributions I'd have made through the first few pages.
Although there is only a narrow stretch of sea between Britain and France there is a significant cultural divide, I'm aware of it and self-moderate my views both for the few people I still know in the UK and STW. There's an even greater cultural divide between my home and a "cité" just a few kms from my home. The self-moderation has to go up a level there, my son is very good at it, he enjoys spending a few days away with the school athletics teams and gets on fine with the Muslims, feeling empathy with some of their views but frustration with others - he like most, when it's not all, of the team members are "issu(e)s de l'immigration". It's clear that his friends' cultural references are very different to the TV, radio and Internet sites consulted in the Ed household.
In recent years the events in north Africa and the Middle East have dominated the TV news and highlighted the cultural divides that people had been living peacefully with for decades, you get one version through the BBC, I get another version through Europe 1 and ZDF, "they" get another through the north African channels. I hope that we'll look back at the Charlie events and say that from then on things improved because it demonstrated the importance of "les valeurs républicaines" and "l'unité nationale".
I doubt it though, the days in which everyone in France watched the news on either TF1 or France 2 are long gone. The sense of national unity that came from shared media experiences has gone and communities are retreating into their own media ghetos. The divides are growing when you would hope that satelite TV and the Net opening up the whole world to people would be eroding them.
I don't have an answer or even much of an opinion. I observe and shake my head in dismay.
Well this should make this year's summer holiday destination choice easier - the Prime Minister of Turkey is now on record as saying that the massacre in Paris was actually staged by the French as an excuse to attack Islam and Muslims
What did he say about Jimmy Saville and Prince Charles?
Imagine if Murdoch owned a good chunk of Vice News!!!Oh, hang on..
@jive, I didn't know Murdoch was an investor so thanks for pointing that out, I am not sure if I would 5% is a good chunk though, Walt Disney owns more.
@Edukator, Agreed, on the balance. I hope a few people here take the time to watch them and don't think that because I have posted them they are not balanced/worth watching. Their 45 min ISIS documentary is excellent, probably the best I've seen.
We shouldn't be surprised at comments from Turkey, during the election campaign a now elected minister (I forget which one exactly) said Turkish women would be more modest and bow their heads when men look at them and not smile or do anything to "encourage" them. Having been pushed back from joining the EU they have made a deliberate move more Eastwards socially and politically.
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/murdoch-family-tighten-their-grip-on-vice-8953023.html ]Murdoch Family tighten their grip on vice[/url]
So, er, yeah, James Murdoch is on the Vice Media board of directors...
That thing about Israeli commandos killing 9 activists providing aid for Gaza didn't get quite as much attention from 'World Leaders' though, eh?
For today at least ,Edukator's "Troll" should be replace with " Voice of reason".
For today at least ,Edukator's "Troll" should be replace with " Voice of reason".
I was considering emailing him to tell him his account had been hacked. (-: Thanks for the posts, it's interesting to hear that side of the story.
it's a credit to the contributors (and mods who I assume have had to keep a handle on things all along) that it's stayed open this long.
To be fair, there's been little to do. It's been broadly civilised apart from the sudden round of "who has the biggest e-peen" on the last couple of pages. The thread now has over 1500 posts, and there's just two been deleted. (Don't ask me what, I'd have to wade back through 44 pages to find them.) So credit to the contributors, indeed.
[i]Don't ask me what, [/i]
one was a cartoon with a swear word in it 😳
It's been broadly civilised apart from the sudden round of "who has the biggest e-peen" on the last couple of pages.
My apologies to all, it wasn't meant to be disruptive or aggressive. I think it was actually more of a defensive stance, similar to Apollo in the trial of Gaius Baltar, though who's who I couldn't begin to tell ya...
I'll keep my hands away from the keyboard in future discussions. Probably for the best, anyway.
🙂
Edit : Oh, and...
I was considering emailing him to tell him his account had been hacked. (-:
proper lolz or something...
That thing about Israeli commandos killing 9 activists providing aid for Gaza didn't get quite as much attention from 'World Leaders' though, eh?
@jive, watch the vice news pieces they are excellent independent of who is on the board of directors. As for the Turkish boat thing it got a huge amount of coverage at the time and afterwards and lead to an international investigation at the UN (I recall) where Israel was cleared. The Turks were told not to send the boat, they did so anyway and when they where intercepted the Israelis where attacked with iron bars. We've debated all of this on STW by the Anyone is free to send aid to Gaza via Israel, the Isrealis let the Turks know that in advance but the whole point of the boat was to spark a confrontation. The Israeli's regularly intercept vessels, they stopped one not that long ago full of missiles from Iran.
@teasel - if you just stay away we just end up with implicit censorship where only posted he "accepted STW viewpoint" is allowed.
There is another website I spend time called Sailing Anarchy, the political forum there is rather spicey to say the least. The website is international but I'd wager most of the posters there are from the US.
jambalaya - Member
They stopped one not that long ago full of missiles from Iran.
5th March 2014?
if you just stay away we just end up with implicit censorship where only posted he "accepted STW viewpoint" is allowed.
Indeed and I admire your tenacity and tolerance to do the opposite.
I'll take a gander at that message board, thanks.
The Turks were told not to send the boat
Wow so israel gets to decide what goes to other counties from Turkey
Quite lucky they had guns to shoot them as the israeli forces engaged in act of piracy ehthe Israelis where attacked with iron bars
Anyone is free to send aid to Gaza via Israel
Gawd bless em for this...controlling what help others give to the land they occupy
Imagine if Iran stopped the US from sending aid to Israel except via then and then attacked them for doing it. How would you view this?
This is why I object to your view as apart from Israel is always right its pretty hard to see what "principle" you apply in these situations. You sure wont be defending Iran if they did this.
There is "no accepted STW view" { IMHO its pretty diverse and credit goes to everyone from the mods to the contributors, only thing we have in common is liking the sound of our own opinions / enjoying a good debate if you prefer] and debate and all views are to be encouraged and held up to the same rational analysis. When your argument fails this test dont get upset [or overly personal] or think everyone is against you. Instead re evaluate your views [ like that will ever happen]
This is quite long but worth a read IMO [url= http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/war-between-two-worlds#axzz3OiNmdaDA ]Stratfor: A war between two worlds[/url]
To be fair, there's been little to do. It's been broadly civilised
Bum.
Bum bum bum bum.
Bum.
This is quite long
It is yes...
worth a read
It really isn't.
Bum.
Fair dues Woppit. 😀
Now, about that Free Speech angle...
[url= http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/un-panel-israel-suppressing-footage-of-gaza-flotilla-raid-1.316201 ]What the BBC report fails to mention is that Israeli authorities confiscated footage from journalists aboard the flotilla[/url]
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Wow so Israel gets to decide what goes to other counties from Turkey
With respect to Gaza yes. Your comparison with Iran makes no sense, other than to say if Iran doesn't wish the US to supply arms to Israel it can try and intercept them. the fact is Iran is subject to numerous sanctions and restrictions due to its actions and stance on a range of issues including it's attempts to arm Hamas. Israel seeks to ensure Hamas cannot arm itself hence checking all "aid" which enters Gaza. Israel isn't always right, no country or individual ever is.
There is "no accepted STW view" and debate and all views are to be encouraged and held up to the same rational analysis. When your argument fails this test dont get upset [or overly personal].
Had to have a chuckle at this JY, so many personal insults aimed at me for posting alternative views, some of which I admit are pretty abrupt, ultimately water off a ducks back though. You are welcome to point out anywhere I have insulted someone.
How would Iran be today if the democratically elected government hadn't been overthrown by the CIA and MI6?
Anjem Choudary sailing close to the wind again
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11342210/UK-shops-to-receive-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-despite-radical-cleric-calling-it-an-act-of-war.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11342210/UK-shops-to-receive-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-despite-radical-cleric-calling-it-an-act-of-war.html[/url]
Radical cleric Mr Choudary said "ridiculing" Mohammed is attacking his personality, and said these actions are "extremely serious", adding that if the "act of war" was to be tried in a Shariah Court it would carry capital punishment."It's not just a cartoon, it's insulting, it's ridiculing, it's provoking," he said.
The lecturer in Shariah law, who was arrested in September as part of an investigation into Islamist terrorism, added: "These things always have a history of coming back and biting them. People are not going to forget. Muslims will never forget what these people did.
"And I'm sure there's someone somewhere who will take the law into his own hands. It's inevitable.
"There will be repercussions. I think there will be someone somewhere who will retaliate."
You are welcome to point out anywhere I have insulted someone.
You are welcome to point out where I said you did.
The point was general point about STW rather than specific to you. If it was unclear then I apologise*
choudry is both correct about what it means under sharia law and that it is likely someone will retaliate. that said he is also an odious **** delivering a barely hidden threat.
It hard to not advise him to just move to a country with Sharia law
* though you could say what you would do if Iran blocked Israel or explain the principle at work.....you could couldn't you?
Going back a few hours
"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. "
Who said that then?
Is a paraphrase of this from the the wise words of the wise one...
[i]The unwise man thinks all to know,
while he sits in a sheltered nook;
but he knows not one thing, what he shall answer,
if men shall put him to proof. [/i]
Hey, Anjem...
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