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Back that "racist" accusation up with a quote, Junkyard. You normally litter your posts with them. Link a whole thread even. Perhaps one in which I put forward the French government view that covering one's face in public is not acceptable whether it's with a religious garment, or a scarf and hoodie. There are limits to what a secular state can tolerate.
I am not sure portraying black person as a monkey can be called "sailing close to the wind". Its just racist.
You seem to have turned offence in to an art form there Edukator,
I would agree Junkyard, you know what I meant though.
Tom I dont think you are a racist; thick skinned like a rhino and pig headed Yes but racist , no 😉
Said with affection rather than malice to be clear.
tbh i have next to no French and the Charlie ones often seem to be just be offensive for the sake of it.
Naked prophet with a camera but I dont know what the captions mean.
I do get the intouchables one though as I have seen the film
I didn't think you thought I was a racist - I've found this an interesting thread.
I change my opinions all the time anyway as I never really believe my own, let alone other peoples opinions. I think some of you know that my opinions can take wild swings from thread to thread, it depends on my mood and which side I feel like arguing for. The pig headed comment comes from the fact that I will then attempt to defend which side I pick at all costs.
I enjoy playing the contrarian.
I have the fortune or misfortune depending on view of believing what I say
One of the better debates on here on a complex issue with no completley satisfactory answer
Most of societies ills come from the fact that you often end up with competing rights and having to pick which to support and which to ignore.
This is interesting for me as I dont support either view fully and see that both have a point though of course killing folk is not the correct response.
Not offended, Junkyard, just asking you to back up a clearly directed insult (you quoted me and implied I'm a racist) with evidence. Perhaps you could make it clear as you have done to Tom:
Tom I dont think you are a racist
However Junkyard, when I place Nazi imagery next to Charlie Hebdo cartoons - it is really clear how much of a darker and nastier message the Nazi cartoons are portraying. There is no comparison IMO - I think some of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons are unfunny, in bad taste and sometimes inaccurate in their commentary. I don't think they are incitements to hatred though and I do believe in the right to use scathing humor to question the validity of authority be they governments or religion and we have to accept that we won't always like some of this humor if we find it unfunny, unhelpful or offensive. Think of this as satires equivalent to collateral damage.
In response to your thoughts on "killing the message" of radical Islam, I think we should combine some of the thoughts raised in that Spiked article into a coherent policy as a long term solution to our chronic problems with Islamism. I do think that the short term response to the acute and immediate threats of Islamism should be robust, using measured force.
The more we fail to achieve a cohesive response to Islamism, that placates the public's fears, the more we play into the hands of the far right. Europe needs to remember and start championing it's values, the enlightenment, the rule of law etc etc before we forget it and see a reversion to fascism.
I am not sure portraying black person as a monkey can be called "sailing close to the wind". Its just racist.
Depends if there was intent.
Don't know the cartoon you speak of but if meant as in the the term you pay peanuts you get monkeys as in useless or I will speak to the organ grinder as in not the man in charge.
My sister said to a new black mother a friend of my niece of her baby, he's a cheeky little monkey.
The mother took offence where non was meant.
My sister calls all little boys "monkeys"
The religion of peace again spreading it's message of peace of love again I see...
Not like Christians and their ever so friendly burning each other at the stake because they are the wrong sort of Christian.
Different era, same religion.
Anyone old enough here to remember Enoch?
Boardwalk Empire?
Oh the other one.. Yes I think that was done a few pages back, some people thought he reasonably predicted this situation but apparently their all racists.
Anyone old enough here to remember Enoch?
Givup, we've been there earlier in the programme.
Apparently he was a misquoted rascist. (or something)
I wonder if a wee bit beer on a friday night makes the fan boys braver?
I wonder if a wee bit beer on a friday night makes the fan boys braver?
Not braver just more gobby! 🙂
Can't wait for that weekend away with Ton!!
Genuine LOL at that
May be a wee bit sweary
FWIW Never met up with STW ers and not got on...... if we dont its you and not me 😉
May be a wee bit swearyFWIW Never met up with STW ers and not got on...... if we dont its you and not me
Served my time on the local Council from 15 yrs old & now work in a prison, of course It'll be sweary. Also I'm not arsed about insults as I get them every single day,(& have had them since I started work) just hope your'e not. 😉
I've paid my deposit to Ton. 😀
Oh shit I forgot to pay
Best e-mail him
See you there hopefully get some more to go as well
I'm hoping to get another 2 guys from work to come as well. Theyr'e a lot lot worse than me.
So I'll just leave this here
[img] 
[/img]
Just like to say,
Hats off to the French for their no messing, get in and slot them attitude.
Best result. In stark contrast to Abu Hanza who was allowed preach terrorism here and to clog up the UK courts for years in extradition proceedings before being sent to the USA to be convicted.
08.25 BREAKING Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) claims responsibility for Charlie Hebdo attacks; threatens further bloodshed. (from The Telegraph)
Interesting times we live in.
Could Operation Cyclone be the origin of Al Qaeda?
Bin Laden* potentially CIA funded? *Tim Osman?
Similar things still happening today?
So, I'm summary, sticks and stones will break my bones but cartoons will kill me dead?
Liberty > Security . ...
Winners:
The state - having caused the problem through mass-immigration, the state will now have even more powers of surveillance over us all.
Security companies
The nutcase right.
Losers:
Pretty much everyone else.
What you have to ask your self is for a peaceful religion,when was the last time you have seen a high ranking spokesman of the islamic faith condemn an act off terrorism or actually done anything about it.
And not one world leader has asked why.
Perhaps one in which I put forward the French government view that covering one's face in public is not acceptable whether it's with a religious garment, or a scarf and hoodie. There are limits to what a secular state can tolerate.
So I suppose I'll have to abandon my cycling anti-smog mask now, then?
Also: Unusual to extract comedy from such a tragic situation, but I noticed that the Special Forces entering the warehouse where The Brothers KaraMeOut were holed up, were being shown how to get in by a bloke in a "hi-viz" jacket... Blinkin H&S gets everywhere.
What you have to ask your self is for a peaceful religion,when was the last time you have seen a high ranking spokesman of the islamic faith condemn an act off terrorism or actually done anything about it.
Your problem here is that there aren't actually any "ranks" as such in islam - just a network of lightly-connected preachers and those paying attention to them. Whilst christianity is well structured with clearly defined levels of responsibility (despite it's fractured nature), no such equivalent exists in islam.
Given that, it's unclear to me what exactly you expect a bunch of virtually independent preachers to "do" about it except preach. I think you'll find that there has been much of that in the past two or three years from the Quilliam Foundation and elsewhere, including ad hoc projects like the Poppy-patterned headscarf, for instance.
I think you and those like you who are coming out with this trite sort of statement should do a little self-education first.
It can pay dividends, in my experience. 🙂
Hi. Sorry I'm late to the party. I've just caught up with the thread, all 28 pages of it, and would like to thank you all for some interesting, informative and in some cases surprising reading. There are a few comments I'd have liked to have responded to, but now that they're ten pages back I guess the moment has passed.
Binners, remind me next time I see you, as the consistent voice of reason and sensibility in this discussion I should very much like to buy you a pint (or a pie).
One thing I would like to pick up on is the photo JHJ posted of the little girl "burned by US drones", an image so important that he felt the need to post it three times on one thread.
As it turns out, the girl in question wasn't burned by drones, she was injured during fighting between the ****stani military and the Taliban. The "drone strike" story is a result of misreporting by CNN, something which they've subsequently recanted.
Ironically, she was actually flown out by US missionaries to a hospital in Texas for surgery and treatment, something the hospital offered to provide for free. Oh, and it's an image from five or six years ago.
No doubt JHJ will now tell me that that's what They want me to think and I should open my eyes and wake up, probably accompanied by a picture of Jimmy Savile in the same room as Prince Andrew or something, but them's the facts.
Perhaps you'd like to reveal your sources Cougar?
Are you implying that drone strikes don't kill children and civilians?
Or that arms sold by Prince Andrew don't kill innocents?
[url= http://my.firedoglake.com/etisdale/2012/01/01/cnn-and-u-s-denials-of-drone-strikes-in-****stan/ ]This is an interesting take on events surrounding the picture in question[/url]
From what I can see, quite a lot of radicalisation begins in prisons.not surprising that those who commit terror crimes have a criminal inclination. There's a starting point.
Essentially this won't be solved by blowing places/people up, or capitulation. Everyone is not suddenly going to hold hands. I can only see the end of this resulting from a mix of intelligence operations for those completely brainwashed and hell bent on violence and some hearts and minds for the rest.
I'll stick my neck out here, and I'm likely to take some flak for it, but this idea that we are a multicultural society is misleading. In the main, integration is dreadful. There are Muslim areas (often further sub-divided further into Somali, ****stani etc areas), white areas, black areas, etc etc. As long as this is the case we are going to get nowhere IMHO. To be truly multicultural, we gots to spread that shit out.
I was amazed at NI, they still have prod and catholic areas, and schools (that really surprised me). So you could have a catholic kid, living in a catholic area, went to a catholic school then gets a job in a catholic run company. His interaction with the prods is next to nothing, is he likely to be open minded towards them? (and vice versa prod/catholic)
Anyway enough of my rambling....
Perhaps you'd like to reveal your sources Cougar?
Five minutes' research rather than blindly posting an image I found on Facebook.
Are you implying that drone strikes don't kill children and civilians?Or that arms sold by Prince Andrew don't kill innocents?
Yes, yes, of course, that's [i]exactly[/i] what I said. Jesus, it's no wonder you buy in to conspiracy theories with such fervour, you're a gold medal Olympian at making shit up. You could put 2 and 2 together and come up with the square root of -1.
Five minutes' research
You're free to share the results of your research for all to see you know...
after all, you did state your account as fact...
Here is an opinion:
Glenn Greenwald: “The amount of gullibility it takes to believe that the U.S. is merely killing “Terrorists” — over and over and over and over — is just staggering (and for those who do believe that there are so many Terrorists trying to attack the U.S. even after a decade of supposedly killing them over and over, you might ask yourself: why are there so many people so eager to attack the U.S.?).“
Hmm, didn't the US (and UK) lie about NSA/GCHQ... and WMDs... and babies in incubators etc etc?
You're free to share the results of your research for all to see you know...
No, I'm just going to do what you always do; handwave, tell you to do your own research and add a coda of "makes you think, doesn't it." The truth is out there!
Here is an opinion:
What does that have to do with the image I'm discussing?
Hmm, didn't the US (and UK) lie about NSA/GCHQ... and WMDs... and babies in incubators etc etc?
What does that have to do with the image I'm discussing?
Can you tell us who gave the account you state?
Actually, don't answer that. It's just going to derail the discussion off into one of your flights of fancy and that's not the point. Forget I said anything.
Can you tell us who gave the account you state?
I can, yes, but I'm not going to. Can you cite a [i]credible[/i] source which asserts that the claim you made (three times) is correct, other than ones repeating CNN's initial report which they've since retracted?
Gah. Must not get drawn in. That's my last word on it.
Mr. Woppit a bit like yours then. For a start they could start preaching that it is wrong. 2 they could start informing on such parties you can't tell me that in such close communities they don't know who they are locally.
And as for researching this you shouldn't have too , I cannot recall the last time I have seen anyone from the Islamic faith denounce these acts on major public media, or is this because the media do not wish us to see it or the Islamic faith do not disagree with these acts.
Ill carry on waiting for this to be seen in the media.
Jesus wept jivehoneyjive, do you have to argue every bloody point just to shoehorn your conspiracy theories in? I find your questioning of the reality of the Parisian Cop being shot insensitive and insulting, and the way you're attempting to swerve Cougar's point that the picture you posted three times wasn't what you claimed is almost laughable. To a point, I think it's right to not always take things at face value, but come on man, you're taking this to a whole other level. Just accept that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there's a fairly good chance that it is a ****ing duck!
And as for researching this you shouldn't have too , I cannot recall the last time I have seen anyone from the Islamic faith denounce these acts on major public media,
Well I could "reveal my sources", but then 1: I've already mentioned two examples and 2: I don't see why I should do your homework for you.
A bit like Cougar and the remarkably unfocused jivebunny.
Have a nice day.
What a bloody mallardy.