Why did the cyclist have to hold onto the car "for balance"?
Whiff of shite there tbh.
I'm with TJ on this, nobody comes out of this well and the whole thing could easily have been de-escalated. As for a brake check, I'll have to take that on faith since it wasn't filmed. Not saying it didn't happen but it's a very one sided view that's been presented.
What interests me is what isn't in the video.
1) If there were 8 riders that means that there were only 1 or 2 in front of the camera bike.
2) There's a comparatively long time between the car overtaking and the brake check - much longer than it would have taken to get past just the two riders in front of the camera bike.
3) The driver doesn't seem overly pissed as he overtakes.... Just a couple of beeps on the horn.
If the driver was in such a hurry that he was angry about being held up for a minute or two, why would he waste more time stopping to confront the riders when he was well past and gone?
My money is on one of the lead riders giving the driver the finger or suggesting he's a tosser.
This leads to the brake check which is usually a snap reaction to something and not something you think about doing for a minute while waiting to overtake.
The driver was clearly wrong in his actions, but the cyclists {as a group} brought this upon themselves.
And I'm with TJ.... The woman stopped in front of a slowly moving car - she wasn't "run over".
Shock horror, some drivers are dicks as are some entitled cyclists.
May be different approach N/S of border but I *think* up here the complainer would be consulted before any diversion from prosecution
When I was clipped by an overtaking driver who then chased me down, knocked me to the ground and punched me in the head a dozen times while I was tangled up in my bike the police told me "we can either tell him to write a letter saying he's sorry or we'll do nothing* because it's not like it's serious".
So there's "being consulted" and there's "being consulted".
*A conviction for assault probably would have caused him problems with his shotgun license!
If the driver was in such a hurry that he was angry about being held up for a minute or two, why would he waste more time stopping to confront the riders when he was well past and gone?
who knows but drivers do do this
The driver was clearly wrong in his actions, but the cyclists {as a group} brought this upon themselves.
I would not go quite as far - what the cyclists did IMO was to escalate it - the intitial actions were the drivers road rage but instead of deescalating this they cyclists actions made it worse.
The blame legally lies firmly with the driver - its just the cyclists could have easily avoided this becoming such an incident simply by taking the moral high ground or running away - instead they chose to confront the drive aggressively and that just makes it worse
Reflect on what happened and why and how to avoid it in future
I’m with TJ on this, nobody comes out of this well
True, but there’s “be a twit” and “be a twit while endangering people’s lives”. Not the same thing.
The cyclists would have been in no danger had they deescalated this. What put them in danger was surrounding the car and aggressively confronting the arse in the car escalating the situation. sitting behind the car and laughing at the drivers small willy would have meant much reduced danger and much less angst
Does seem the cyclists reaction escalated the situation and made things worse for themselves. Easily done in the heat of the moment.
The driver started it and also had the chance to deescalate it. But again, surrounded by a group of angry people, common sense can go out the window.
No one comes out of this well, you'd hope it would be used as an example to all sides in how not to behave and react.
Yes, when the driver who assaulted me got cautioned, I had over reacted to his initial bellendery.
Having seen the longer video now i concur the driver actually did cause a lot of this and and there was no reason, they'd stayed behind the pack and then overtaken appropriately. If they did beep and then brake check the cyclists then that was dick move. Cyclists escalated it, ideally they shouldn't have, that said going around him without saying anything would have been the smart move but he would have been behind them again and next time the driver may have done something more stupid.
To be honest it is frustrating being stuck behind a group, but then so is being stuck behind a tractor or pensioner site seeing, neither of those would warrant a brake check either.
They driver should have been given a lot more of a sanction for their behaviour.
I would not go quite as far – what the cyclists did IMO was to escalate it – the intitial actions were the drivers road rage
Yep, OK.
But the point I was trying to put was that I suspect a/the cyclists did something (other than not riding in single file) off camera to make him stop after he had gone past.
They then surrounded him....and the rest we know.
As for a brake check, I’ll have to take that on faith since it wasn’t filmed.
Yes, no evidence of actual brake check but how did the cyclists catch up with a car that had overtaken them going faster than they were?
The driver must have slowed down (even if not hard braked) for the cyclists to have caught up so why did the driver slow down in front of them?
If the cyclists reacted like that just because the driver overtook them (safely) that would be odd wouldn't it?
It took me nearly ten minutes to cross a main road yesterday when a tractor with more than a mile of traffic behind it trundled past at 6mph. Don't seem to recall anyone overtaking, standing on the anchors, and then punching the tractor driver.
Oh, wait, that's because a ****ing combine harvester leaves a big dent in the back of your car when it drives into you.
Maybe there was a cyclist in front of the (rear facing) camera who we couldn't see. Otherwise it was a perfectly fine overtake in that video.
Only thing that would've annoyed me was the BEEP BEEP BEEP as he went past. But then I would never ride in a group of teamshirt clad roadies like that, so can't put myself in that place.
The cyclists would have been in no danger had they deescalated this. What put them in danger was surrounding the car and aggressively confronting the arse in the car escalating the situation. sitting behind the car and laughing at the drivers small willy would have meant much reduced danger and much less angst
She wouldn't have been in danger had she not walked through the park at night, that was a bit silly. She could have worn sensible clothing rather than provoking the attacker by wearing a short skirt AND she'd also had a few alcoholic drinks. It wasn't really her fault, but she could've avoided it.
FFS TJ - yes the cyclists could have acted differently but stop victim-blaming!
its not victim blaming and the situations are not parallel.
The cyclists could have avoided the confrontation but instead chose to escalate it. there would have been no assault if the cyclists had not acted as they did.
I would have just sat behind the car obviously laughing at the driver and if he had got out of the car i would have ridden away
I sam NOT stating its the cyclists fault - thats victim blaming. What I am saying is the driver was clearly in the wrong but deescalating the situation would have been a much better approach that setting up an aggressive confrontation that would never end well
A few years ago I got into an altercation with a car driver that escalated to him chasing me round the streets in a rage trying to use his car as a weapon
I used my best deescalation techniquies r4ealising we had both ended up behaving like dicks. It ended with a handshake
With TJ on this - both sides have escalated this IMO. The driver appeared to give plenty of space during the pass but I'm guessing hooted in frustration at being held up then another cyclist responded off camera and it escalated from there. In the heat of the moment I wouldn't trust myself not to react - one of the reasons I hate road riding.
The cyclists would have been in no danger had they deescalated this.
Yes, they should've apologised for being on the road and slowing down a car. Someone should explain to them that they don't pay road tax so should yield to drivers that do. 🙄
Sorry, but if you're riding in a group and you get brake checked, you'd be very lucky to avoid a coliision amongst the group, which is obviously what the driver was trying to achieve...
By going around the car, you leave space for the group to react and slow down.
They haven't tried to set up an aggressive encounter, it's happened because of the drivers actions.
The driver who leaned on the car has aggressive body language ( all we can judge on) If he had stopped behind the car then no assault happens.
Jim - in that case they are riding dangerously by not being able to stop safely!
All the cyclists had to do was stop behind the car.
Not really sure what the cyclist did wrong. He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself. As for the lady getting run over - even if you agree she had stopped if the driver wasn’t so busy pulling/punching the cyclist he would have seen her!
Not really sure what the cyclist did wrong. He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself.
1: touching the car is guaranteed to set the driver off
2: he aggressively confronted the driver.
Both avoidable and unneeded and both guaranteed to escalate the situation
Why escalate the situation? Why not descalate it?
He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself.
That right there is exactly what he did wrong.
It's like putting a foot in a front door if someone is trying to close it, or walking into your garage without permission.
Grabbing a wing mirror simply isn't on.. that would escalate the situation for me too.
Jim – in that case they are riding dangerously by not being able to stop safely!
So, cyclist can't stop and rides into the back of a car, cyclist's fault, driver goes into back of cyclist also cyclist's fault.
Jim – in that case they are riding dangerously by not being able to stop safely!
So, cyclist rides into the back of a car, cyclist's fault, driver goes into back of cyclist also cyclist's fault.
touching the car is guaranteed to set the driver off
Next time we'll know to just straight off punch him in the head through the window. Then just common assault caution. (or would that be different for a cyclist doing the assaulting, I wonder)
It's amazing how much anti-cycling there is on cycling forums.
Christ, this is a painful read.
Riding two abreast is legal, driver just took offence at having to wait for someone else's hobby and does something dangerous and illegal...and the cyclists are getting a pasting on here for being a bit miffed about it.
Yes, we can all be self-righteous about turning the other cheek etc, but if someone endangers your life, you have a right to be a little upset about it.
Not really sure what the cyclist did wrong. He was only using the wing mirror to balance himself.
Okay this has to be trolling now.
On the off chance it's not, can you please explain why the cyclist had to use a moving car to balance themselves?
does something dangerous and illegal…
Could you point out the bit on the video where he does this before the cyclists mob him please?
Christ, this is a painful read.
Riding two abreast is legal, driver just took offence at having to wait for someone else’s hobby and does something dangerous and illegal…and the cyclists are getting a pasting on here for being a bit miffed about it.
Yes, we can all be self-righteous about turning the other cheek etc, but if someone endangers your life, you have a right to be a little upset about it.
100%
Gotta love the people trying to justify the driver's actions by saying how long he was 'held up' for.
Whenever some oaf takes my life into their hands to 'save' 30 seconds (or god forbid more than 60 seconds) I get quite miffed that my life isn't worth 60 seconds of their precious time.
I guess they must just be more important than me. 🤷♂️
Could you point out the bit on the video where he does this before the cyclists mob him please?
Inappropriate use of the horn (madam) ?
What Jim said was that because the cyclists were riding so close together they had to slow gently so not to crash into each other so had to pass the car and could not stop behind the car which i suggested as the sensible move
Nothing about going into the back of the car.
personally I see all chaingangs as dangerous riding. too close together for safety.
no one has tried to justify the drivers actions. Clearly wrong. However why then escalate it?
I used to get into confrontations like this often but then changed my tactics and no longer do. I still ride assertively and will tell a driver if they endanger me but I will not put myself at risk in the way these cyclists did.
What Jim said was that because the cyclists were riding so close together they had to slow gently so not to crash into each other so had to pass the car and could not stop behind the car which i suggested as the sensible move
But they were fine until the car overtook and immediately slowed/stopped in front of them...
For the record I 100% agree that escalating the situation is a bad idea and can make things worse, however that in no way makes any of what happened the cyclist's fault. Practically speaking yes sometimes people get annoyed and do silly things, it's normal if not ideal. Having a few choice words and touching a wing mirror is reasonable when you're annoyed. Hitting them and running them over is not.
no one has tried to justify the drivers actions.
No, but the way you are wording it is very much excusing the driver's actions.
However why then escalate it?
Not everyone is as chilled. Or can let things go as easily. Or can easily accept their loved ones and friends being put in a dangerous situation. Or is trained in de-escalation.
Could they have reacted differently? Yes. Were they in the wrong to react the way they did? No.
I still cannot believe this bit:
"she suffered cuts and bruises but wasn’t considered part of the case as the police couldn’t actually see her"
Surely there must be more to it than that. It makes no sense to me at all.
Please point out where I or anyone else has said its the cyclists fault?
the driver was criminal in his actions. the cyclists were just stupid and made the situation worse. they could have deesclated it and the situation would not have been so bad and the cyclist would not have been punched. thats not to say they are to blame - but simply saying dealing with a road rager in a different way would have been better
Please point out where I or anyone else has said its the cyclists fault?
Not 10 posts ago you said riding in a group was inherently dangerous and therefore wrong...
Sorry, but if you’re riding in a group and you get brake checked, you’d be very lucky to avoid a coliision amongst the group, which is obviously what the driver was trying to achieve…
There's absolutely nothing to say that he brake checked them - he may well have simply stopped in a normal way.
personally I see all chaingangs as dangerous riding. too close together for safety.
I find groups of roadies very intimidating on the country roads around me.
It’s amazing how much anti-cycling there is on cycling forums.
Riding a bike doesn't automatically make your actions right.
Although some people here may think it does.
but simply saying dealing with a road rager in a different way would have been better
I agree whilst sat here typing this but not the same when someone has just put me in danger and the adrenalin is flowing although ultimately any altercations I have had with drivers never ended positively so would be better just to avoid however hard that is.
I find groups of roadies very intimidating on the country roads around me.
Bizarre, what do you think they're going to do? Knock you off your mountain bike? Push your car into a ditch?
I find groups of cars far more intimidating when I cycle on the road, they kill and injure lots of cyclists you know, whereas groups of cyclist don't kill anyone..........
but simply saying dealing with a road rager in a different way would have been better
I'm interested in the alternative suggestions you have
I don't condone confronting drivers aggressively, but I suspect said drivers will approach a group differently next time in order to avoid a confrontation. I accept this will not always be positive but if nothing at all is done then the driver behaviour remains as it was. It seems as if you are saying that groups who are harassed (which is what he did with his beep)
should just let it go? If so, he will continue to do it. Nothing changes.
And if the answer is "give footage to police". Forget that one. I now don't bother with my camera as numerous reports have ended in tumbleweed.
Not 10 posts ago you said riding in a group was inherently dangerous and therefore wrong…
Not what I said - try reading and also thats a IMO
And even if I said that its still not blaming the cyclists for this situation.
I find groups of roadies very intimidating on the country roads around me.
crikey, really? You must be absolutely terrified when you see a few motorbikes then!
