We have asked him for an itemised account of work done and materials, he gave me a hand written list of costs for some work, a total for something and said he had another amount for receipts, that's all, not a proper breakdown, he listed a small step and corner section of concrete as £1000 whicj I thought was excessive.
Another problem is that we had a leak in the roof, I contacted him about this and he said he would get the roofers to look, they turned up on Friday along with him and his brother, the roofers were there about 10 mins before them and they were up on the roof looking at it, then the builder went up on the roof, eventually they came down and said it's nothing to do with them and blamed my existing roof, today it's been raining and the leak is worse than before, it wouldn't surprise me if he went up there had a word with them and interfered with it to make it worse, My surveyor has said it wasn't leaking before the work so it's down to them, but I know I'll get nowhere with them, if he was any kind of decent professional he's have wanted to sort it out to keep his customer happy.
We feel the best thing to do is just tell them to eff off and don't come back and get a proper builder in to finish it off, and rather spend money with someone else and we just don't want someone like that on our property or in our house. If they feel we oew them money they can take us to court but I'll have a pretty good reason to defend it.
Sunday morning and the brother is supposed to come around this morning expecting me to sign a contract, not signing it, no way! But my partner seems to think that we can explain the situation to him better, but I don't think they'll listen, they don't seem to understand that we're not happy with the way the cost has gone up, his unprofessional demands behaviour and threats, he doesn't reply to our letter or requests, won't put anything in writing, won't negotiate or discuss things in a civil manner. We might be able to talk to the brother but if they both turn up it's just going to be more aggression, threats and demands, so that's when I'll be dailing 999.
Sunday morning and the brother is supposed to come around this morning expecting me to sign a contract, not signing it, no way!
Why don't you pre-empt this?
Ring him up and tell him that you are not going to sign a contract and not to bother coming around. Tell him from now on you will only converse with him or the brother by letter.
On another note all the discussion over price is irrelevant - if he's quoted you a price then that's what you should pay. If he's underestimated the cost of the job then that's his fault and he'll have to absorb the cost.
This is a very similar situation which happened to me in the past - stand your ground and they will back down.
Ask a 3rd party to be there as an independent witness to the proceedings. With recording equipment if necessary
Is the builder a member of any trade organisations, FMB or similar? Contact them. They 'may' be in a position to assist.
Re the roof - agree with the posts above. If it didn't leak beforehand, it's something they have done. Is the leak on the join of the two roofs? I wouldn't allow this builder, nor his subbies on your property to do any further work.
He sounds like a real rogue. Certainly not the correct way to resolve any disputes.
I'll be rocording it as usual and make sure there's a 3rd party, they don't like it when there's a 3rd party, I've had my step father present before and they told him to eff off.
I'll be interested to see what they put in this contract, might put them deeper in the s**t.
With the roof, we have to give them the opportunity to resolve any issues as it wouild look bad in court if we refused them access, but I was not happy about having them look at it, I expected the outcome to be honest. Part of the roof goes around a chimney on the side of the building, it's this area that's leaking.
No idea if they are a trade member, I seriously doubt it and don't think they'd tell me if they were.
No idea if they are a trade member, I seriously doubt it and don't think they'd tell me if they were.
Look up their company name(s) on the various sites. If you don't find them then call up each body and ask the to look - I had to do this once when I couldn't find someone specific. Like you, I seriously doubt they're registered anyway.
Good luck this morning. As above, ensure everything is recorded.
I had this happen, almost carbon copy, you are not in devon are you? I resolved with a solicitor, surveyor who condemmed the work, and a recording of him threatening me..
With what you've told us about the leak, I'd be keeping them away from it, bringing in a surveyor to assess the quality of workmanship, and getting someone else to finish it properly.
Hopefully you've withheld enough from the bugger to make that workable.
Threats = police.
Threats = Police 100%
I'm a couple of steps behind you in a similar process. We had a load of plastering and other work done back in April and May, agreed that we'd pay in 3 instalments over 3 months. Guess what, the final instalment is due, there are a whole load of little jobs that haven't been finished off and all I get are excuses as to why he can't return to complete the work. He still wants paying though, which is a bit unfortunate for him because I've no intention of giving him any more money until he's done what we agreed (no written contract) and then I've deducted the stuff I've already paid others to finish and factored in a buggeration tax as well. I've no doubt he's going to get shirty and I've no doubt that I'll need to explain to him that unless he can keep things civil that we'll be communicating through solicitors and I'll get a court injunction barring him from setting foot on my land.
Some people expect to feed off you. Don't let them, and don't take their shit.
I'll be rocording it as usual and make sure there's a 3rd party, they don't like it when there's a 3rd party, I've had my step father present before [b]and they told him to eff off.[/b]
It is against the law to abuse someone in public, this can be reported to the police and they should act on it (make sure you don't also tell them to eff off)
Details here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64#pt1-l1g4
Relevant section is:
Fear or provocation of violence.
A person is guilty of an offence if he uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour,with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked.
Kojaklollipop are you under a new patio ? How did the meeting go ?
Builders eh! 🙄
Are you reasonably handy? If so front him up if he dares come back to your property. Knobs acting like this cause our trade the world of pain!
As above, pay what was agreed on the quote and no more. ask for all material receipts, break down of costs etc etc, do you have a diary of hrs worked?
Keep something "handy" by the front door..,
BOMBERS !!!
Meeting never happened, 9am this morning I get a phone call from my local PC who I contacted on Saturday to explain the situation, he wanted to pop along to get the full story and offer what advice he could. So he was here for about an hour, gave some very good advice as he has had to deal with similar situations before. It's restored my faith in the authorities.
It's hard when you're in the middle of it all to see a clear way of doing things, both my partner and I just couldn't seem to function or make a decision, so it was great to have somebody say, you can do this, you can do that, you don't have to do this. He went through their paperwork that I had received and basically said it stood no chance, they have not provided me with information I requested, proper contract, signed paperwork, very unprofessional. So basically we tell them in a nice letter to eff off, make no contact directly only through my solicitor, not to come to the property - if they do call the police, and that's that. If they do carry out their threat of taking or damaging my property the PC will happily put them in court.
I'd imagine they, or their mother, saw the police car outside and decided not to call, although we did wait until gone midday just incase they did, but we were advised to put a note on the door basically saying leave the property, don't return, will not answer door, will contact them in writing.
It's like a massive weight has been lifted, although it might not be over yet as who knows what they might decide to do, in a way it would be good if they did decide to try and take the roof off.
The money they've received so far should cover the costs and profit for the work to date according to my Quantity Surveyor so this will be mentioned in the letter, but whether or not they decide to accept that is another thing.
For all those who slate the police, sometimes they do come up trumps and have clearly made you feel safer in your own home, so big up to your local bobby for that!
Might be worth the OP getting an old banger painted up in police colours, and leave it on the drive 8)
Unfortunately there's knobs in every trade and profession.
Next to my front door is a fork, shovel, sledgehammer, axe, large spike and crowbar ... that's because I'm removing some tree stumps in the front garden.
More likely to be cowardly vandalism of the brick through the window variety. Can anyone lend you a discreet cctv camera for a few weeks?
^^^ that's the spirit (safety net) ^^^
Do you have an invoice & receipt of payment for the work done?
Can anyone lend you a discreet cctv camera for a few weeks?
Surely an overt one, as a deterrent, would be better?
Yeah I'd go for overt as well. Shows you are being proactive in protecting the interests of your property and are not up for taking any shit!
Maybe a brick or some damage to the cars, but it'll be obvious who did it but unlikely to prove it.
No invoice or receipts, we've been asking but not getting anything. The building, luckily, is sound as it's been subject to building control inspections at every stage - apart from the leaky roof, and we'll just be happy to have them out of our lives.
I'd been phoning 101 to keep them updated on the situation, have a ref number to keep refering to, but the only reponse I had from that was it's a civil matter and nothing they can do, it's only when I decided to phone and speak to a PC directly that something was done about it. He asked if I had contacted Trading Standards, I had open a case online and even phoned them and they said there was nothing they could do, he was surprised at this and told me there's a local office go to them and speak to a Trading Standards officer and get as much information as possible. So the help and advice is there, it's just a case of going to the right person.
I did think of the CCTV option, will have a look at some systems tomorrow.
You didn't pay in cash though?
Part cash, part bank transfer. They could argue I haven't paid the cash, but I have witnesses, the amounts being withdrawn from my account, and it was suggested I could argue that I'd paid the amount they were asking and they'd have to prove I didn't, so it works both ways, the PC said it's unlikely they'd do that as they probably won't be declaring it.
Well, I'm going to have a large drink now and hope it all ends soon and not get worse, I'll keep it posted.
Thanks for everyone's support and suggestions 😀
It is against the law to abuse someone in public,
On your property isn't 'in public'.
Perhaps you're having an STW BBQ on the exact date they next pop round to intimidate you? 😉
Perhaps you're having an STW BBQ on the exact date they next pop round to intimidate you?
Oh yeah. That garden full of overweight, socially awkward, IT-working, t-shirt wearing bike g33ks is going to see him scared.
Oh yeah. That garden full of overweight, socially awkward, IT-working, t-shirt wearing bike g33ks is going to see him scared.
Shame he's in Sussex. There are plenty of STW ninjas up here.
On your property isn't 'in public'.
That particular episode was in front of my house on the public footpath and road for about an hour, arguing, swearing, etc. didn't even think of getting onto 999, I think we were all in shock at the time.
Actually got an ok's nights sleep, been waking up everynight and BANG it's there going through your head straight away, same with almost every waking hour too. Feel better able to deal with it today so we've got to get a letter together, the PC said he'd look at it before we send it as he gave lots of advice about what to put in it. The only anxiety now is are they going to come and do something to us or our property, I'm giving the case number and details to the good neighbours so if they see anything going on they can get onto the police straight away .... wonder if his mum would do this for us too 😉 she used to keep an eye on the property when we were away and take parcels for us, say hello and have a chat, she'd probably turn a blind eye now 😐
On your property isn't 'in public'.
Sections 4A and 5 of the POA can be committed in public or private.
Sections 4A and 5 of the POA can be committed in public or private.
You might recall this was recently debated by many top legal bods when some B list celeb waved a kitchen knife at some trespassing scallywags in her garden. The general consensus was the law was not meant to protect threatening people on your property, despite what the Police may think. Obviously were one to use the same actions against someone who was on your property going about their legal business (e.g. Postman) then the law would apply.
Oh yeah. That garden full of overweight, socially awkward, IT-working, t-shirt wearing bike g33ks is going to see him scared.
😆
Actually, that's the thing with cowardly bullies, they CAN easily be deterred by determined individuals; the battle is mental, not physical.
Oh yeah. That garden full of overweight, socially awkward, IT-working, t-shirt wearing bike g33ks is going to see him scared.
Man, that hurts 🙁
Just found his thread and havent read all the posts but as some have already said, call 999 next time he comes to your house demanding money and issuing threats....report abuse, threats to damage property and intimidation to the 999 operator and you should have a unit there fairly quickly....you also may want to mention they are acting aggressively towards a female (your other half?) and whether you have children in the house or not....this can also hasten the police along in my experience.
With regard to actually sorting the problem, send him/his company a letter detailing your understanding of the agreement/debt and that he will have to take you to small claims court if he feels underpaid....at his point he'll either accept your payment or proceed to court, provided you have some proof of the previous financial agreements then court wouldnt be a bad option to be fair.
I had problems with some builders in a neighbours house who were blocking me in constantly, dumping stuff in my garden, things escalated and at one point they put a hose through my letterbox and blew a load of dust through....thankfully i had the interior/porch door closed so it didnt go into the sitting room but the porch looked like it had been snowing!
I dealt with it by slashing the tyres on every one of their vehicles parked outside my house (3 vehicles/12 tyres)....the problems stopped after that...their job would have become prohibitively expensive if they had to put new tyres on their vans every time they came to do some work!
I dont advocate this approach, it can backfire massively if you dont honestly believe in an eye-for-eye approach to things and arent prepared to have similar done to you in return.
Anyway, use the police and courts, they are there to protect you in situations like this.
I'd be most worried about related vandalism, ofc as you know their mother's address you could always respond in kind, just double up the damage until they get the message - what could possibly go wrong? :p
You might recall this was recently debated by many top legal bods when some B list celeb waved a kitchen knife at some trespassing scallywags in her garden. The general consensus was the law was not meant to protect threatening people on your property, despite what the Police may think. Obviously were one to use the same actions against someone who was on your property going about their legal business (e.g. Postman) then the law would apply.
If you are referring to Myleene Klass waving a knife at burglars then that was predominantly a debate over the offence of Possession of an Offensive Weapon, which can only occur in a public place. The POA is quite clear that some of it's offences can be committed in public and in private - the offences are not committed if the threatener and the threatened are both within dwellings, but if one or other is not then those laws apply. Unless the OP and his builder were all inside his house, which it doesn't sound like from his post, then the legislation applies. If I stand in your garden shouting and bawling at you, I commit the relevant offence, even though I'm standing on private property.
Well, it's been quiet until today, we had a note through our door saying that as we are in an ongoing contract I'm not to let anyone else to enter of alter the project. Don't know if that's true legally, I think it's in response to us having a another builder look at it yesterday to get an idea of costs to finish the work. He's also said a copy of the contract will follow shortly, a contract I've never had and the work he was supposed to do is almost complete, erm bit late now?
So, after help from the police and my solicitor we have sent off a letter today to dis-instruct the builder, we're all hoping he'll just eff off!
It's people like you who keep people like this in work!
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🙂 good luck mate
Come to think of it, maybe you should contact them...
[i]Up and down the country, cowboy builders are causing devastation and dismay. These reckless workmen are always bad news, leaving behind them piles of rubble, financial angst and heartache - and it's up to our team to fix up ruined homes and drive the bad builders out of town. Standing up for aggrieved consumers everywhere are Dominic Littlewood and Melinda Messenger.[/i]
Contract? Have you signed it?!
Oh yeah. That garden full of overweight, socially awkward, IT-working, t-shirt wearing bike g33ks is going to see him scared.
Harsh, very harsh! I'll have you know I'm not even close to being overweight!
<sniff>
No, not signed any new contract!
This was what they insisted and thought I would do the last time I had to deal with the builder and his brother, last Friday.
I am seriously thinking of contacting cowboy builders/rogue traders, the work is ok, but they have been right bar-stewards and nasty people to deal with, and left the place in a mess, I've spent most of this week clearing away rubble, rubbish, sand, cement and a load of screed they laid down in my driveway.
Anyone know if they have a right to stop other people working on the project? I'd have thought not as I have no written agreement/contract, just the first quote and verbal agreement.
Anyone know if they have a right to stop other people working on the project?
Nope, your property, your land, you're in charge of who works there.
