[Closed] More gun grief in the US

are we (in Britain) any different/better?

we let 2000 people die every year with our laws/attitudes to driving.

really? deliberately shot vs's killed in an accident and you think they are the same?

@pingu - agreed, however sadly I think they are past the point of no return as the are just too many weapons in circulation

@ahwhiles - the UK is one of the safest places in the world with respect to road safety

i struggle to see how the 2 are even remotely comparable.

Someone has had too much Merlot or is simply simple methinks.

If it wasn't guns it would be something eles.

in america-- the logic dictates that there will be pre school arms classes....

ahwhiles, I am not suggesting we are different however your analogy is flawed. You are talking about accidents that generally may be avoidable the news item is about someone killing several people deliberately with guns. It would be fundamentally more difficult for someone to get hold of the guns to do this in the UK.

I agree however it is far to late in the day do address the situation in the US.

are we (in Britain) any different/better?

we let 2000 people die every year with our laws/attitudes to driving.

33,000 road fatalities every year in the USA, so yes, we're different/better.

33,000 road fatalities every year in the USA, so yes, we're different/better.

Top Trumps 😉

If it wasn't guns it would be something eles

So I assume if we gave everyone in the world guns and bullets there would be no more deaths ...mmm Chinny reckon

your analogy is flawed. You are talking about accidents that generally may be avoidable the news item is about someone killing several people deliberately with guns

You'd prefer your loved one to be killed in an avoidable car accident than deliberately by somebody in a shooting? How about 40 of your your family and closest friends in a car accident instead of one killed deliberately with a gun?

So I assume if we gave everyone in the world guns and bullets there would be no more deaths ...mmm Chinny reckon

That's not the point. If you armed everybody with guns, I'm sure the number of killings with a knife would go down.

You'd prefer your loved one to be killed in an avoidable car accident than deliberately by somebody in a shooting?

If the answer is "deliberately by somebody in a shooting", would you recommend moving to the United States aracer ?

Obviously it's more likely that someone will die from a road traffic accident in the US, but deliberate shooting sprees seem so rare in the UK.

So hopefully they will get deliberately murdered by mass killer before someone has a chance to accidentally kill them in a RTA.

Dilemmas, eh ?

WTF has this thread turned into?

Don't start comparing mortality rates between UK and US in any respect.
We are one of the safest countries in the world for gun and road. Yes, any death is bad but we're near the lowest for miles driven for road deaths and pretty much on the top for least gun related deaths per capita.

The US is a crazy place for mortalities.

Edit: Blimey, yes. So If you live in Amercia, you are far more likely to get killed by an American in a car or with a gun that many other things

aracer - Member
You'd prefer your loved one to be killed in an avoidable car accident than deliberately by somebody in a shooting?

Why do you do this?

How about 40 of your your family and closest friends in a car accident instead of one killed deliberately with a gun?

🙄

If you armed everybody with guns, I'm sure the number of killings with a knife would go down.

I think my version is closer to "their point" but less amusing

[url= http://rt.com/usa/nra-texas-gun-day-bills-838/ ]NRA celebrates 'Gun Day' as Texas passes pro-gun legislation[/url]

This thread is piling stupidity upon stupidity.

This thread is piling stupidity upon stupidity.

Indeed, from Lifer's link :

[i]"the Republican-dominated house passed legislation permitting university students to carry handguns in the classroom"[/i]

The arguments offered to justify US gun laws are quite unbelievably stupid.

FFS some people just can't help themsleves can they! 😯

<just back from William Hill. Got a £20 bet on that the thread reaches 320 posts, £15 on 6 people falling out with each other and £50 on one getting banned.

Is the bookie open this late on a Sunday evening?

Daily Show comparing US gun control (could never happen) and Australian gun control (they thought it could never happen), worth a watch:

Why do you do this?

Just trying to give a little perspective. For every loved one killed by a gun in the US, 4 loved ones are killed by cars (sorry, got my figures mixed up before). I wonder how much time is spent debating how to reduce the number of deaths due to cars?

Perspective you say?

[img] [/img]

Where's the road deaths on that chart?

aracer - Member
Just trying to give a little perspective.

How is:

You'd prefer your loved one to be killed in an avoidable car accident than deliberately by somebody in a shooting?

Giving a little perspective?

For every loved one killed by a gun in the US, 4 loved ones are killed by cars (sorry, got my figures mixed up before).

Source?

Because it might be out of date:

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-deaths-in-america-projected-to-soon-top-car-fatalities-8426644.html ]Gun deaths projected to overtake road deaths in 2015[/url]

aracer - Member
Where's the road deaths on that chart?

I was just providing perspective.

Um its not a debate about road death v gun death so not really any perspective. Or shall we do another comparison whereby statstically British roads are more dangerous than US roads because we have a higher percentage of road deaths in relation to gun deaths than the US.

You can manipulate statistics however you like but at the end of the day its gun deaths we are talking about. OK so they need to focus on road safety, however you need to focus on topic! We could spend all week analysing statistical data on road deaths etc. However do you not think that if there was more gun control then some of those deaths may not have occurred.

If you want to discuss road deaths start a thread.

From the Daily Show gun control thing; in Australia in the 18 years leading up to the enactment of gun control legislation there were 13 mass shootings. Zero since. Gun homicides down 59%!!! Gun suicides down 65%. It took 12 weeks from the Port Arthur massacre for the bulk of the gun control legislation to be drawn, debated and passed.

The data you're providing there is not only disingenuous, it's also proof of "If it wasn't guns it would be something eles." I presume you missed that more than 2/3 of gun related deaths were suicides? Here's the source of my data which seems fairly up to date http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

Far from providing perspective, by including suicides in that graph, it's distorting the perspective. Oh, and before you wring your hands about all the gun related suicides, the suicide rate in the US is virtually identical to that in the UK.

However do you not think that if there was more gun control then some of those deaths may not have occurred.

I think that it's likely you could save more lives by focusing on road safety than gun control. Of course if you're more upset at your loved one being killed by a gun, then it is of course correct to focus on that.

We have lots of threads about gun control in the US, I'm not sure I've ever seen one about the incredibly high rate of road deaths there.

aracer - Member
I think that it's likely you could save more lives by focusing on road safety than gun control. Of course if you're more upset at your loved one being killed by a gun, then it is of course correct to focus on that.

We have lots of threads about gun control in the US, I'm not sure I've ever seen one about the incredibly high rate of road deaths there.

How many road deaths are homicides?

What else should be made completely safe before limiting people's access to weapons?

I think that it's likely you could save more lives by focusing on road safety than gun control

That's not the point. It's not either/or situation.

Lets not do anything about child abuse - incorrectly fitted car seats harm FAR more children each year.

How many road deaths are homicides?

You're more bothered about your loved one being killed in a homicide than an accident?

What else should be made completely safe before limiting people's access to weapons?

[img] [/img]

However do you not think that if there was more gun control then some of those deaths may not have occurred.

Any chance that you could try and stay on topic, in the story I posted did it say anything about road accidents?

So lets try again, do you not thing that with gun control some of those deaths may not have occurred? Its not a trick question, it doesn't need qualifying against drug deaths, road deaths, heart disease or anything else just if there was gun control there would be fewer gun deaths?

No body is saying they are more worried about accidents than homicide we happen to be be talking about gun crime not accidents?

I think there's a good chance with gun control (of the sort which is being suggested) that some of those deaths may not have occurred. Maybe as many as a few hundred.

Well done you answered a question, wasn't difficult now was it! I think maybe as many as several thousand though would be the case. Not wanting to get the Australia statistics before and after their gun control.

aracer - Member
"How many road deaths are homicides?"
You're more bothered about your loved one being killed in a homicide than an accident?

Please stop doing that.

+ Hilarious that you call strawman on me.

So when counting gun deaths it's only homicides that you count, but with road deaths it's every death. I'm guessing because that gives the figure you want.

You also seem to think that road safety isn't thought about, or is not a priority, but declining road deaths show that's not true.

with road deaths it's every death. I'm guessing because that gives the figure you want.

I'm happy to remove suicides if you could give me the stats for that.

No, just count the homicides.

I'll do that when you've explained to me why it's worse having a loved one killed in a homicide than an accident. Can you really not see why suicides are a completely different issue? It doesn't appear that a lack of guns has done anything to improve the suicide rate here compared to the US.