Fair enough, it's your life. Sounds like false economy to me though.
there's an ecu VAG specialist in barry that has a good reputation.
heck if you want to "do it yourself" go on ebay and buy a VAGCOM cable and a copy of VAGCOM and play away at your hearts content. it'll even tell you what condition your electric window winder motors are in.
you work in I.T I'm sure you can figure it out.
"1. What are you going to do then ?"
from what i can gather his forward plan for ring fencing the unicorn is to drive slowely and endure slow gear shifts , wafting through life on a sea of contentment - while towing his caravan 😀
there's an ecu VAG specialist in barry that has a good reputation.
Yeah, Permoveo, they are the people who supplied the ECU!
not them they're utter utter tosh do some homework!
before sending your car for impending doom
Hi Cliff,So after all this time I've been unable to sort out my car. I've had the engine and gearbox software updated, and it made no change. The ECU is still reporting a fault with the inlet manifold flap position sensory, short to ground, and the gearbox is still not working properly.
The error still persists with the flap disconnected, so that points to the wiring. But the wiring tests fine so it must be a fault with the replacement ECU. I've had the ECU flashed with new engine and gearbox software, still no change.
So, now we get to the difficult part. All the evidence I have says that the ECU did not need to be changed.
1) The unit was not obvioulsy damaged, and it was not in a place it could have sat in water
2) The new ECU did not fix the problem (I have a fault code report taken after the change, and it shows hundreds of errors still)
3) Permoveo told me that they had told you there was no fault, but you insisted on a new unit
4) Permoveo showed me their invoice to you, which was £400+VAT not the £750 you charged me. Their work order didn't say anything about water damage, which they would have put down.
5) Removing the trailer control module fixed the issues instantly, except for this inlet manifold flap thing, which points to the original issues not being ECU related.So my current problems are caused by the ECU swap, which was not necessary. I think therefore that I'm entitled to a refund based on the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. I'm out of pocket as follows:
£750 for the original unnecessary ECU
£256 worth of diagnostics from Permoveo and A1 Diagnostics in Cardiff
£250 for my own VCDS to investigate
A lot of time and effortI'll overlook the VCDS and my time, but I think it's fair to ask for compensation for the other stuff and for either you to contact Permoveo for a replacement or give me £480 to do it myself. I'd prefer the latter of course.
Unless that was written on your solicitors headed paper, that will go straight in the bin.
The small claims court summons won't though.
So you took it to other garages without confronting them that the problem is still there after they looked at it. and still willfully handed over more money that still didn't fix the problem.
oh my days!
not them they're utter utter tosh do some homework!
I didn't choose them, dodgy geezer did.
I already called Welsh VW, they said it didn't sound like a problem they could help with.
So you took it to other garages without confronting them that the problem is still there after they looked at it
No, I spent ages confronting the original guy, then I made him tell me who he'd used and I went round to see them several times. They didn't want to help me because my contract isn't with them after all, but they were quite willing to charge me loads of money to tell me the fault codes.
Good man... about sodding time... I'm still confused (unless i missed something) why you never took the car back to him and said "my car is more broken....please fix it" about 3 months ago...
Why did you pay him at all in fact ?
I paid him up front for the part. I have SMS logs of the months of entreating him to fix my car, and the fobbing off he gave me.
I should've done a number on him earlier, that's for sure, but I have to be completely confident that I'm in the right otherwise my argument will crumble, and that means research.
🙂Hi Molgrips,Thanks for your email. I've considered your request and would refer you to the matter of [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye#Litigation ]Arkell vs Pressdram[/url].
Love Cliff
There's the small matter of defrauding me by telling me the part cost more than it did. That's hard to refute.
I have to be completely confident that I'm in the right otherwise my argument will crumble, and that means research
Your problem now is he can say
"it must be one of the other things/places you've taken it to that's broken it..."
It's not possible to go back in time...
Why did you pay him up front fella ? i forget now... but FFS, really ? Cash or Credit card ?
lol defrauding ..
no thats called business
you dont sell stuff for what you pay for it , you put a mark up on it for your time and effort.
if i buy a brick for 5 pounds - i aint selling it to you for 5 pounds. consumers price is brick + 20%.
it must be one of the other things/places you've taken it to that's broken it...
I've got plenty of evidence I told him all about the issues at the time, before I took it to anywhere. Easy to dismiss that one.
Why did you pay him up front fella ?
I am (or was) a greenhorn.
you dont sell stuff for what you pay for it , you put a mark up on it for your time and effort.
No, you tell me what the part costs and then tell me your labour cost per hour.
Inlet manifold flap? If that means airflow meter, is quite a major input to the ECU. And as the wiring loom hasn't been changed and the meter is ok, it sounds like the ECU you have been given simply isn't matched to your car's wiring loom - wrong model or year or variant or something.
I think I'd take Bamboo's advice, get it to a VW garage, get the correct ECU & SW, accept that it will cost more than an independant.
Shame you didn't get the old ECU back from Cliff the bodger.
ok and he told you 750 - as thats what the parts cost YOU not him.
you do know when you buy a pint of milk in the shop - its not the price the shop pays right ? - are they defrauding you also ?
No, you tell me what the part costs and then tell me your labour cost per hour
Don't be daft...
I a garage buys in a part for £100 i don't expect to get it for £100. I expect to pay £115-120.
Admittedly yours was proportionally more... but still, he's got to make a living... parts in LBS's are sold for more than they buy them in for arent they ?
Inlet manifold flap? If that means airflow meter, is quite a major input to the ECU. And as the wiring loom hasn't been changed and the meter is ok, it sounds like the ECU you have been given simply isn't matched to your car's wiring loom - wrong model or year or variant or something.
It's not the airflow meter, it's basically a throttle valve that does one or two things, not sure. One is to shut off the air to the engine to ensure a smooth shudder-free shutdown, and the other may be to restrict airflow to increase EGR. Some sites say it does that, and some don't.
Shame you didn't get the old ECU back from Cliff the bodger.
That was the very first thing I asked. At this point he was still refusing to tell me who he'd been to for it so I could go to them. Yes, I know, I trusted...
but still, he's got to make a living
That's what the labour charge is for.
And it's not the same as LBSes, that's retail.
He bought something from a supplier and sold it on at a profit. Did you enter into any contract with him that prohibited this? As you say, the contract of sale between the ECU supplier and him was nothing to do with you.There's the small matter of defrauding me by telling me the part cost more than it did. That's hard to refute.
Even if you try to hit him with the immoral card, he can always claim the £750 was supply and fit. Supply was £480 (inc VAT), fit was £270 (inc VAT). That's probably less than 2 hours work at main dealer rates.
he can always claim the £750 was supply and fit
He told me it would just plug in and it'd go - no work required. Charging an hour would make a meal out of it, and he'd have to charge £270 per hour to make that work. You've got to be honest and open.
And where is the ECU in the car, does it require removing bits of interior to access it? "plug and go" could simply refer to his belief of electrical compatibility.
I think I'd advise not bothering with small claims court.
Can only agree with what tonyd says whole heartedly. You've created a situation where all you've done is, in trying to be cheap, created a massive headache for yourself and a whole load of woe.
Not everyone that works in the motor trade is a crook. Far from it in fact! The key to success here is knowing, and befriending people that aren't. Whilst plenty of us are more than capable of doing an oil change, or changing the brake pads on our own cars, as soon as electrics are involved its going to have to go to someone that knows what they're doing (and more importantly that you trust!) to get sorted.
Put it this way, as a bike mechanic, I'll happily tackle just about anything on a bike, but if the rear shock has failed I'm not going to start taking it apart thinking "how hard can it be" and "I might learn something along the way"... It'd get sent to a specialist who would turn it around inside 3 days, good as new, and allow me to get on with other things that pay the bills! Time is money and all that...
I do sometimes laugh at the people who are so scared of having a car go wrong in their lives that they will happily pay £400 a month for the privilege of a brand new car, but then the flipside is that in running an older car, you have to be prepared that once in a while it might break down and cost a bit of money. I've had to cut my losses on a few cars, one lost me £1k, a couple lost me a few hundred, and one only about £100 all told. But given the problems they developed, at the time I was glad to move on rather than throw silly amounts of money at them. I've also spent money on the "belt and braces" approach to fixing cars before, knowing it would not be cheap, but in getting it fixed properly it would at least not go wrong again for the foreseeable.
I'm sure working in IT the number of computer faults you fix, that were indeed made worse by the operator trying to fix it themselves, is quite high no? I can tell you that a decently high percentage of other people's bikes that I fix are problems caused by the owner having a little tinker themselves, with little or no knowledge!
Good luck with getting your money back from the rogue mechanic. May I suggest though that if you don't have a solicitor as a friend, go down the pub tonight, get talking to one and buy him a few beers! In life it's not what you know, but who you know that eases your path through it... I can list both a very highly skilled and trustworthy car mechanic and a very good solicitor within my circle of friends.
You've got to be honest and open.
No you don't. He gave you a price and you sucked it up; he didn't promise on his mother grave that was what the ECU cost. You should maybe have done the research up front.
Take it to VW. Pay them once it's sorted. Otherwise you will be in this loop forever.
Here's my tale. I had a Jag XJ8. It needed £2000 of engine work (not dealer prices, but specialist). It was worth £5000 px in tip top order. I sold it as needing attention for £4000 to a guy who still has it to this day. Got £500 discount on my new car for no px
Did I lose £1000 or save £1500? Given molgrips grasp on car-anomics I'll be interested in how that stacks up.
Devils advocate:
- Ring supplier for new part (15 mins)
- Drive to collect new part as customer is antsy and in a rush (45 mins)
- Take the old one out (15 mins)
- Put the new one in (15 mins)
- Make sure car starts and runs OK (15 mins)
- Dispose of old unit
There's 1hr 45mins plus the supposed cost of 'safely disposing of' an old part. You're lucky he only charged you £270, which is £225 before VAT.
I think chasing this guy is too late and will prove to be more trouble than it's worth. I also think you should just go to a VAG dealer/specialist and leave it with them til it's fixed, swallowing the cost. It'll cost you more in time and stress otherwise.
All my opinion of course, and you seem set on your course of action. And for that reason, a'am oot!
I am (or was) a greenhorn.
Seeing as you're blatantly not learning anything from your very expensive lessons here, I'd say you still are!
Anyway... The mechanic was free to charge you what he wanted for the ECU. What he paid is totally inconsequential. What you should have done, was say "ok thanks, I'll think about it and get back to you" and then get on the phone and the Internet to find a better price yourself. I'm guessing you do this with your bikes, and IT equipment at work? 😕
[i]Molgrips car #4 - A New Hope[/i]
but the same conversation 😉
It's possibly a bit of a trek given you're in wales but if you're after a tuning company that knows VAG inside out then AmD Technik who are just outside Bicester are probably worth a call.
i was thinkging "molgrips car #4 - no hope"
molgrips - Member
Well I know that the local specialists charge £400 +VAT for a refurbed ECU, and the dealer will be £1000-£1500.
Havn't you already had a 'refurbished' (whatever that means) ECU fitted and that is what is causing these problems? Why would you risk that again?
[i]I do wonder what we/you'd do if you got one... and had the exact same issue..[/i]Give up!
And be £1500 down on what you can spend on a new car!
WBAC is offering you £1k less than the autotrader ad that I linked to, add your £1.5k to this and you will have a car that is £500 better than your passat if it was working properly.
How much have these problems cost you since you got the first mechanic out?
www.webuyanycar.com
Quick question, when they quoted you for the ecu did they include the VAT?, a lot of parts suppliers dont and add it on at the point of quote as most of thier sales are to garages who are vat registered and that may explain the difference. I really dont think its fraud as you agreed to pay the price he asked, what he paid is irrelevent, i really think you would be laughed at if you took that to court. Up to you of course but id really think hard about all of this because you have involved other garages it could really muddy the waters when considering a claim.
[quote=I_Ache ]
How much have these problems cost you since you got the first mechanic out?
But you also have to factor in what income Molgrips is getting from STW and its advertisers for increasing the page impression/click count.
refurbed ecu = pulled out of a scrapped car and sold on good will that it was working for the kind of mega profit that lets them replace it FOC if it turns out to be gubbed 😉 but then im a known cynic.
refurbed ecu = removed ecu. Spray with pledge. refit...
Sod it - I call troll. 😉
trail_rat - Member
refurbed ecu = pulled out of a scrapped car and sold on good will that it was working for the kind of mega profit that lets them replace it FOC if it turns out to be gubbed but then im a known cynic.greeble - Member
refurbed ecu = removed ecu. Spray with pledge. refit...
This is what I was thinking. Why would you run that risk twice.
Anyhow while I was typing a shed load happened and it transpires that Moly has so far paid around £1250 with no end in sight. How much was the new clutch?
If you had ditched the car at the outset without any investigations (I'm not saying that is a good idea) and had done what ScottChegg did. You would have had a reasonable deposit on a new car (the £1250) and the £1500 for a new ECU plus say £300 VAG labour would have lasted for around 7 months of payments on a new car then the say £3000 that you could have moved your faulty passat on for is another 12 months payments. During this 18 months of trouble and worry free ownership god knows what else would have gone wrong with your car that you need to fix.
Either that or you need to go and drive another similar car and make sure that the slow changes are not just a figment of your imagination.
How funny would that be. 😀
wafting through life on a sea of contentment
Hardly - he'll be getting narked off about someone 'jumping the queue' because his FUBARed hearse won't kick down.
You do all know that Moly will just continue to argue black is white until the end of time don't you? I'm sure he must be the result of a drunken union between Padded Fred and TJ back in the day when even they were talking to each other.
All this grief and angst. Moly, you'll give yourself an ulcer. Buy your way out of all this aggro and stop being silly. My last A6 was worth about £7k trade in but needed about £2k of work on it (mainly aircon and belts). I decided to trade as I couldn't see the logic of sinking £2k into a £7k car when it was likely to need more soon.
Good luck with small claims and your continuing prep for the Divide. Have you got a place yet? 🙂
Seeing as you're blatantly not learning anything from your very expensive lessons here
I dunno what you mean. I've learned a lot.
Unless you think I should go 'OOOHH NOOO a complicated car thingy, I'd better phone THE EXPERTS and have them bend me over guessing what's wrong with it'.
I've learned not accept the first offer for a replacement part, that's for sure, and I've learned a lot about engines and electronics.
it transpires that Moly has so far paid around £1250
No, I've paid £1000.
Has no-one picked up on the fact that the mobile guy seems to have lied through his teeth?
Oh and another thing, whilst I'm at it, just because I don't immediately do what you say, doesn't mean I don't take advice. It means I don't think YOUR advice is good!
Oh and another thing, whilst I'm at it, just because I don't immediately do what you say, doesn't mean I don't take advice. It means I don't think YOUR advice is good!
You've got, within reason, pretty much everyone else posting on this thread in unanimous agreement as to what you should have done/should do now.
But you still don't quite agree... 😕
Unless you think I should go 'OOOHH NOOO a complicated car thingy, I'd better phone THE EXPERTS and have them bend me over guessing what's wrong with it'.
I can put a computer together from component pieces, set it up, keep it running smooth and generally am pretty IT savvy. But that's the easy part. The hard part is what happens inside, all the millions of computations and lines of code, and if anything went wrong there, I wouldn't know where to start, so I'd either start again, or get an expert (that KNOWS what he's talking about and I trust) to get involved.
Cars are essentially computers with wheels these days. Most of us are more than capable of changing the physical components on them with a Haynes Manual and a socket set, but when something fundamentally goes wrong with the electrics of the car, it's time to call in someone with the right knowledge and the tools to fix it.
I've learned a lot
But too late to help.
Has no-one picked up on the fact that the mobile guy seems to have lied through his teeth?
So? He wasn't as clever as he thought he was. He fooled you, though. Anyone can talk the talk; when it comes to action, results matter. It was worth him having a punt, he's lost nothing. In fact he's quids in. Your quids, as it happens.
If you had done the right thing and gone to the main dealer, you would be no worse off financially, and your car might work.
Is that a life lesson you could take to heart? It's easy with hindsight, I know, but it really is the path of least resistance when you are talking about anything as complex as the main electronic brains of your wheels.
