5% off top rate though. If you earn £151K, that extra £1K was taxed at £450, now will be £400. You only need £3.6K over the £150K and you’ve saved more than the average earner with that cut. Noting too you’ll have also saved on the 1% cut on the basic rate too.
Yes, but also paid a lot more tax than the average earner in the first place.
Though it's easier just to forget that isn't it
Yes, but also paid a lot more tax than the average earner in the first place.
Are you one of them? If not why are you defending them? Using absolute figures of what people pay rather than a percentage of what they earn is mathematically illiterate.
Are you one of them? If not why are you defending them? Using absolute figures of what people pay rather than a percentage of what they earn is mathematically illiterate.
without taking sides, don't people on 150k pay more tax as a percentage of what they earn as well as an absolute (regardless of the recent cut)?
this aged well !
https://twitter.com/CPhilpOfficial/status/1573240072060682240?cxt=HHwWgICymdPgotUrAAAA
Treasury Chief Secretary
Yes, but also paid a lot more tax than the average earner in the first place.
So? What you take home is all that matters in the end, if it’s the income that matters to you, rather some weird idea of “fairness” where you’re unhappy to be both taking home lots of money and giving plenty back to the country. Most people would love to have hit that 45% tax rate, happy to be earning so much and putting back in.
Greedy little piggy's filling the piggy bank
don’t people on 150k pay more tax as a percentage of what they earn as well as an absolute
Yes they do. Because they can afford it. Anyone on >150k can afford a few percent more. Someone on 25k can't. It doesn't take much thinking to conclude that someone on 150k getting a 6% tax cut compared to someone on 25k getting 1% is unfair.
Most people would love to have hit that 45% tax rate, happy to me earning so much and putting back in.
Incredible isn't it how people earning 150k could possibly feel justified in complaining about how much tax they pay? This is worth a repost...
Coming to all of us next summer - possibly - bank base rate of 5.3% by August '23.
Per Bloomberg.
I've just heard peak Tory MP - talking about people getting better interest rates depositing money into banks - for fluidity to be lent.
FFS a spokesperson for the Tories doesn't even know commercial banks do not lend depositers funds.
Jesus Christ.
Classical economics is miles behind but used to bash the population with constant lies.
The thing is neoliberalism worked for several decades as we stripped and sold off assets from the state. That created a market for the few - but a market.
Now we have nothing to sell - you can't build a wealthy society based on that structure unless your rebuild the state with new money.
The Tories model will fall apart with this logic alone.
Tax cuts without massive investment is going nowhere.
don’t people on 150k pay more tax as a percentage of what they earn as well as an absolute
Yes. Some people think that's not fair, but that ignores the fact that there is a minimum amount of money required to live. A single person on minimum wage has income very close to that minimum (or even below it) so they cannot afford to pay the same proportion of tax as a rich person.
That is why even in Tory Britain we still have a progressive tax system (thats what this is called) as do most countries.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
According to the recent STW poll they’ll be a few on here who’ll be happy.
The FT comments today, largely from bankers, are absolutely withering.
What's Kwasi giving us for Christmas?
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Parity with the dollar!
Most people would love to have hit that 45% tax rate, happy to me earning so much and putting back in.
You would think that but the truth is there are some right greedy folk out there. Folk in my work moan about paying 46%, you'd think Sturgeon was stealing the bread from their kids mouths.
Parity with the dollar!
and the Euro by default 😉
I suspect most people on 150K plus aren't thinking 'hooray' I have a little bit more money but rather 'f*** me, this has never worked well in the past and I'm going to be living in a dump with lots of destitute people and knackered services in a couple of years'.
I'm astonished anyone actually thinks this is a realistic plan. You would absolutely need the blinkers on
People who moan about paying tax should also remember tax gives money value.
Removing some from circulation creates value for the funds. That's what tax's main purpose is. To control whether there's enough in circulation.
That's why really you should cut the bottom end of earner's tax as they will spend the extra. And I increase the top end to remove it from the hoarders.
There's so much misinformation about taxation. Usually stuff is back to front.
Like tax and spend. It's spend and tax etc.
Investment comes before taxation not the other way around as Tories are selling it.
And increasing interest rates increases inflation as it forces assets to get more expensive.
It's a common theme.
Are you one of them?
Only the one year
Parity with the dollar!
https://twitter.com/spittingcat/status/1573338995362234369?s=20&t=As3xsYefWhWf8t3BW6InpA
[ more seriously, we won't get parity with the dollar this week, but I would't bet against it this winter ]
[ I happen to think it's been nailed on for quite some time, just need the reality of the new UK to sink in ]
Quite why a tax cut for folks earning what by any standards is a huge amount of money is not inflationary but "pro growth" while higher wages for people like my nurses and receptionists who obliged to spend more or less every penny in their local community is on the other hand, inflationary and and will harm growth will baffle folks who have a normal view of the world.
I'll bet that the Tory voting "red wall" are pondering their choices
I don’t get it, there aren’t enough high earners to swing an election, so why pander to them like this? It’s just pissing off the other 90%.
Because Truss and co are puppets fot these folk.
Only the one year
So you seriously think it's unfair that someone on 150k should pay more tax than someone on 25k?
The thing is neoliberalism worked for several decades as we stripped and sold off assets from the state. That created a market for the few – but a market.
Now we have nothing to sell
Selling off the family silver, as one former Tory Prime Minister called it, and North Sea oil.
It was reckoned that whoever won the 1979 general election they would potentially stay on power for decades because the trickle of oil from the North Sea was about to become a torrent which would bring unimaginable wealth to the UK.
It was pissed down the gutter to pay for mass unemployment and peaked over 20 years ago.
I suspect most people on 150K plus aren’t thinking ‘hooray’ I have a little bit more money but rather ‘f*** me, this has never worked well in the past and I’m going to be living in a dump with lots of destitute people and knackered services in a couple of years’.
You just summarised over 1000 FT comments.
Trusses puppet masters
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/23/liz-truss-power-extreme-neoliberal-thinktanks
The chancellor claims this is an end of an era of redistribution… looks like an acceleration of redistribution to me… further faster redistribution to the most well off, leaving everyone else even worse of than before.
IFS top level appraisal… (would the unpublished OBR assessment say much the same, who knows…)
https://twitter.com/pjtheeconomist/status/1573307710023647232?s=21
For the few, not the many.
Tories win elections by convincing people that their self serving actions also benefit everyone else in the end… sunlit uplands are always just around the corner
This x 1000000
It's an eternal game of chase the dangling carrots with this government, and the British public lap it up.
****ing useless Tory ****s
https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1573333193842892801?t=8D8WCa_38tr3XHWalhfIPA&s=09
I don’t get it, there aren’t enough high earners to swing an election, so why pander to them like this? It’s just pissing off the other 90%.
I think that's the salient question - why do they think / know that this will not harm their re election chances ?
Ineffectual opposition ?
They know that their newly won voters are firmly anti-Labour based on Brexit/immigration/race/culture war nonsense ?
They're drunk on power ?
They know they can rely on the press to get them out of just about any hole ?
Enough people just don't really care about anyone worse off than themselves ?
There's got to be something to explain why they're happy to proceed with what ordinarily would look like election suicide.
How can they announce all this, and then close parliament for three weeks? When did parliament last have a whole week of debate and scrutiny of our “winging it” government?
I think they know that post brexit Britain is stuffed so they are going full on IEA
But those clowns are on another planet
Meanwhile
https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1573301206688370695?t=V-c9E6-3XoDGBATLE9nhDA&s=19
why do they think / know that this will not harm their re election chances ?
BBC have found voxpops… she’s “doing the right thing”… Labour would just give people “hand outs”. Ex mining area by the sounds of it. Cheering the redistribution to the rich.
🤷🏻♂️
One Truss fan (her self descriptor) would like to see “more help for single mothers”, as she used to be one, after the government have just said they will sanction low paid part time workers if they don’t move to full time work.
😩
It's a good job Putin is descalating and not trying to drag this war out further otherwise we'd be really stuffed 🙄
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1573341352259108870?s=19
Yes, but also paid a lot more tax than the average earner in the first place.
Though it’s easier just to forget that isn’t it
Not forgotten, briefly I was getting into the areas where this was a consideration and then jacked it for quality of life. And while it is a point, it's's not the point right now.
The point is that if the Gov can afford to cut tax take by whatever the impact of this 1% / 5% rate cut is, then right now it makes no moral sense that any share of the saving is given to high earners at all, let alone disproportionately by giving them all the same benefit of the basic rate cut and then an extra cut later. It should all be going to the low paid.
eg (NB maths not properly worked out, just as an idea) Cut basic rate by 5% to say 30K, and increase it by 5% then from 30-47.5K. So the 50K earner is neutral more or less, gained some then gave it back. The 40K earner has had a 5% cut on 17.5K of income and a 5% increase on 10K so sees some benefit, etc.
(again, not costed properly, I don't know exactly how many are each in bracket to balance it out, but you get the gist)
BBC have found voxpops
The BBC don’t seem to have got out of sycophancy and advanced deferential mode. The interviewer on the R4 PM programme seemed to be completely oblivious to the sub sub treasury minister talking absolute *****. He it didn’t occur to him to challenge, ‘We have only been in power for two and a half weeks, therefore we can’t be blamed for that’.
Jersey, Gurnsey, Ilse of Man, Caymen Islands, Belize etc have called "Oi that's our IP"
There’s got to be something to explain why they’re happy to proceed with what ordinarily would look like election suicide.
Never under estimate the power of the Daily Mail to convince the gullible that no matter how bad the tories are it will be worse under labour.
it makes no moral sense that any share of the saving is given to high earners at all, let alone disproportionately by giving them all the same benefit of the basic rate cut and then an extra cut later. It should all be going to the low paid.
I don't think anyone is claiming that the tax changes are intended to be "morally" correct - although that moral can (as always) be viewed two ways (is taking the same from everyone "fairest" or is making sure everyone has the same amount "fairest").
The bankers bonus + the 45p rate + lower corp tax changes are intended to make the UK a more attractive place to put your highly paid banking staff. They definitely achieve this - its preferable for banks to be able to heavily weight renumeration packages towards bonuses, and its preferable for their staff to see a lower tax regime (so they will be more comfortable living here).
The modelling (by the uk gov) shows that this more attractive environment will bring in so many bankers/high paid people and reduce tax avoidence and thus drive growth by such an amount as to cancel out the loss in tax income and net out at a beneficial rate. This modelling is more debatable and has not been backed by anyone independent.
I guess reducing tax on the poorest could be viewed as more "moral" but is extremely unlikely to drive any growth. Reducing tax on the richest is fairly unlikely to drive significant growth, but thats a bet they're taking
Has anyone seen this “modelling”, or is it a hunch? I mean, London is great, but there are still plenty of reasons to choose to locate elsewhere.
Also… do we really need so much government borrowing to fund tax breaks, and to remove bank regulations designed to reduce the risk of another round of government funded bailouts, just to attract workers from abroad? Can’t they think of other ways of improving the environment in the UK for migrant workers?
I guess reducing tax on the poorest could be viewed as more “moral” but is extremely unlikely to drive any growth.
Right now I'm talking about people facing choices like heating or eating; if the state doesn't see that as a responsibility above growth then we are truly ****ed (no need to answer, obvs)
Never under estimate the power of the Daily Mail......
IME it is usually grossly overestimated and is often used as a handy way to explain poor election results.
'So there IS a magic money tree after all!': Britons respond to Chancellor's 'Emergency Budget' by sharing memes as Britain battles cost-of-living crisis.
Angry Britons have quickly waded in on the Chancellor's 'Emergency Budget' plans by sharing memes of notorious fat cats and 'magic money trees' as Britain battles a cost-of-living crisis.
The Royal College of Nursing has described the mini-budget as one that gave 'billions to bankers and nothing to nurses'.
'Bankers' bonuses were seen as emblematic of an imploding financial services industry that was fuelled by a culture based on greed and pursuit of profit at any cost.
The Daily Mail has its work cut out in convincing that the mini budget is full of great ideas if that is what they are telling their readers.
Not read the thread yet but I'd just like to add....
It's madness absolute madness.
I'm almost swayed to vote snp by this utterly shambolic asset striping nest feathering bunch of self serving jizz stains
That's the bit which doesn't add up to me; cutting tax in the hope of recuperating it through tax gains from future spending (as people have more disposable income). It's also very risky - what if the private sector decides to keep the cash? Much better to invest in something physical, IMO. Hospitals, schools, railways etc.
Also, it's juxtaposed against inflation and high interest rates, which are 'anti-spending'.
God help public sector employees, nobody else will.
it does smack of a "set up" come back Johnson all is forgiven ?
