Anger management course required.
Theres a whole bucket of Law and president out there to examine if you have a few years of study in you.
Happy to continue pointing out the Obvz if that’s too much for you to consider.
There’s
precedent
obvs ; )
We are going to cripple the justice system if that is the line for prosecution.
What is your evidence for your claim?
Having just got off the phone to Virgin Media complaints department I didn't think it was possible to be any more incensed. Then I saw this. I am not sure what actually gave me the burst blood vessels, was it the manhandling of a woman? Was it grey haired woman looking away as if nothing was happening? Was it the slow hand clap by a group of people responsible for our country, its morals and its general wellbeing? Or was it the fact that this was a bankers ball, those that ****ed our country a few years ago slapping themselves on the back?
I need to go and have a lie down and when I recover I expect to see the same punishment dished out to this **** as was dished out to the milkshake throwing man.
Would you be OK with someone grabbing & pushing you if you walked down the street?
I wouldn't consider it necessary to get the law involved if such an incident took place. If I walked into a private function protesting, I would expect to be grabbed, pushed and removed.
If I walked into a private function protesting, I would expect to be grabbed, pushed and removed.
By the neck?
Its assault. Its as simple as.
Not really surprised at those defending the MP, but you really should go take a look at yourselves in a mirror. Just don't break it in the process as its seven years bad luck according to superstition.
Which may not be necessarily a bad thing for some of you.
We are going to cripple the justice system if that is the line for prosecution.
If you work somewhere like a secure mental health facility and grabbed a violent service user by the neck you would be prosecuted and barred from working in such a place ever again.
The law is there to protect everyone, equally.
Have you seen the video? he doesn't grab her by the neck (throat implied by emotive language) he has his hand on the back of her neck as he leads her to the door.
I think the tribal element of the coverage of this has surprised me, a man (regardless of his politics) has by most expert's definition assaulted a woman (regardless of her politics) surely our collective sympathy should lay with the weaker person/victim of crime?
If you think he's right to do it because he's a Conservative MP and she a climate protestor, you should be having a word with yourself.
He's been suspended.
If the government think it's serious to suspend a Tory then something's up.
Have you seen the video? he doesn’t grab her by the neck
Yes. He appears to grab her by the neck at the start.
Have you seen the video? he doesn’t grab her by the neck (throat implied by emotive language) he has his hand on the back of her neck as he leads her to the door.
Perhaps he was just giving her a massage? Or an ickle tickle to cheer her up?
Perhaps he was just giving her a massage? Or an ickle tickle to cheer her up?
Quite possible judging by the smirk on her face.
And I think it seems a wholly appropriate amount of force to remove a tory from your property when they next come canvassing.
Suspended and rightly so IMO, but not by the neck... Yet. 😉
I admire these protestors and hope that the man is prosecuted, presumably this is a higher level of offence than milkshakes on clothing. He should also be removed from parliament and lose his pension benefits.
You can believe in equality AND respect women at the same time.
So...........All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. (There needs to be a George Orwell equivalent of Goodwins law on the left of the political spectrum).
How about "You can believe in equality AND not hit people at the same time". Otherwise what you're saying is fundamentally not equality is it?
Yeah, he should have wiped that off too. How dare she.
People react to being physically assaulted in many different and seemingly strange ways.
Especially when being assaulted by someone bigger and stronger than yourself.
If you think he’s right to do it because he’s a Conservative MP and she a climate protestor, you should be having a word with yourself.
I get the impression that most people on here despite thinking that his force was not particularly excessive, loathe the man and are politically much more in tune with the protester.
The idea that a well trained police officer would have been more gentle appears comical to me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NmxfxSLTTIs
Internet frothing, gotta love it.
Suspension is the right course of action, pending an inquest is the most sensible action. At that inquest not only the facts will be heard but also the MP’s motivation and moral questioning. These inquests aren’t held in the open, so well never know what questions will be raised. But they are cross party inquests so no bias intended by the interviewer(s)
The point made ^^ about the disconnect between those that seem to think they have “special rights” over others is a valid point.
And to point out the Obvz, those that think they have “special rights” clearly don’t when the rule of Law is applied.
One less Tory IMO is a good thing.
So………..All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
If you are physically stronger than someone else, you have a responsibility to ensure that you do not use that advantage against them unnecessarily.
And equality of opportunity does not translate to absolute equality in all things.
Which is why we have disabled spaces next to the entrance in supermarkets and the non disabled have to walk a bit further.
“Mark Field MP
The UK remains committed to helping women all over the world to feel safe and protected in the work they do, so they can speak freely and be part of the change we all want. “
If ever there was an example of judging people by their actions and not their word then this is it!
that's
JohnMark beingJohnMark
The idea that a well trained police officer would have been more gentle appears comical to me.
A well trained police officer would (we hope) be acting within the law. That MP wasn't.
I get the impression that most people on here despite thinking that his force was not particularly excessive, loathe the man and are politically much more in tune with the protester
This
I will rather enjoy it if this destroys his career, but the idea that what happened and the circumstances in which it happened was assault and that the justice systems time should be wasted by such triviality is frankly ridiculous.
@scotroutes sorry dude! I'm sure there is stream of porn that would fit the bill though.
Would have been funny if he'd got dropped by her though. Would make this whole conversation very different.
If you are physically stronger than someone else, you have a responsibility to ensure that you do not use that advantage against them.
I'm going to have to play devils advocate here because I fundamentally agree with the kernel of your point, but; he's a middle aged bloke, a bit overweight, probably knows more Jim's than Gym's. If we're going to play the "she's a woman and therefore isn't a threat card" then I think it's fair to point out he's more Stalone in Creed than Stalone in Rocky 1.
I will rather enjoy it if this destroys his career, but the idea that what happened and the circumstances in which it happened was assault and that the justice systems time should be wasted by such triviality is frankly ridiculous.
Yet many others do think it's assault. Perhaps you could explain why they're wrong.
Some people think farage copping a milkshake is assault.& some people think grabbing an unarmed woman (security would not have let her in if she was armed) isn't. What a f*&cked world we live in 😡
Not sure what I find more offensive..the way she was unnecessarily manhandled by the MP, the way some are reacting on here like she deserved it, or the smug riposte delivered afterwards by Hammond where he crows about signing up to some spurious set of guidelines which may or may not be introduced decades from now when this government has done sweet FA to mitigate climate change
The protesters are right. This is the ONLY game in town and the quicker people get there heads round it the quicker we can try and head off the worst of whats to come
If I’m honest what I really would have liked is if she was a BJJ practitioner and flipped him like a pancake, got him in a rear naked choke and made him tap out like a bitch…
Or turned the situation and spun him round, grabbed him by the back of the neck and sat him back in his chair before carrying on as she was. Just to show aggression and violence aren’t the answer.
I think he lost his shit and went in too aggressively, maybe alcohol involved. Shouldn’t have done what he did to anyone, man or woman. I think she knew what she was getting herself into and was prepared for this kind of thing so she handled it well, didn’t try and escalate the situation. Nothing really to see here.
Edit: I’ll clarify that last point. This needs to be looked at by the law to determine if punishment is needed. The media circus now rolling into town is out of proportion. I will feel uneasy if he is not charged when the milkshake artillery are.
Farage being milkshaked is assault as is this. It's very clear and simple in law.
It's a good job Donald Trump wasn't there.
Where would he have grabbed her?
If we’re going to play the “she’s a woman and therefore isn’t a threat card” then I think it’s fair to point out he’s more Stalone in Creed than Stalone in Rocky 1.
I didn't say that.
And I've never seen Rocky,so don't understand your analogy. 🙂
@bsims that too! Which, if individuals growing desire to get combative isn't tempered with some restraint could happen.
Like many have said, you can argue either way if it was justified, but if it was a bloke I find it doubtful he would have had a punt.
As Greenpeace are professional protestors and objectors I would imagine they're pretty well versed in how to reduce the likelyhood physical confrontation through reasonable and peaceful means.
He’s been suspended.
If the government think it’s serious to suspend a Tory then something’s up.
He'll be quietly reinstated the next time there is a close vote happening.
Some people think farage copping a milkshake is assault.& some people think grabbing an unarmed woman (security would not have let her in if she was armed) isn’t.
Pro-establishment types can't bear the idea of any challenge to power and authority, which is why those doing the challenging are always treated more harshly. From Orgreave all the back through the enclosures and the peasants' revolt. Here's a poem from the 18th or 19th century:
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from the goose.
@ransos or they change the rules to allow themselves to have their noses in the trough.
How very dare the common folk think we're equals!
He hasn't been suspended from party or as an MP just from his ministerial role, no doubt until the dust settles, he will still be voting along party lines in the house.
You seem sure that a crime wasn’t committed. Why?
You aren't legally allowed to use force to remove a trespasser, even if you've repeatedly asked them to leave. But that all changes if you believe the trespasser represents a threat. If the woman had remained at the back of the room to make her protest then any grabbing and throwing out by Field would probably be assault.
But she didn't she was walking in how I'd describe as an assertive manner towards another part of the room, presumably towards the speaker. Fields assertion that he felt she could be a threat of some sort isn't completely unreasonable. If he maintains that defence it's unlikely that charges will be brought or if they are result in conviction. Especially as in the great scheme of things he wasn't unduly violent. Politically though it's not good for him, most people (myself included) will feel he just acted out of anger. I can see his suspension ending in him being fired from his job but no more than that.
Not sure what I find more offensive..the way she was unnecessarily manhandled by the MP, the way some are reacting on here like she deserved it
I agree 100% with this comment. I have just read through the thread at the start of lunch and I am appalled by some of the comments and views on display here. We middle aged men have a long way to come yet.
But that all changes if you believe the trespasser represents a threat.
Only if that belief is held to be reasonable, otherwise every single case would result in acquittal, surely. So I guess we need to consider if "walking assertively" towards somewhere else meets that test.
How many times do I have to repeat myself, the law for use of force, lethal or otherwise is no different for a police officer than a civilian. They are not “authorised” to use force, they don’t carry a license to kill, training is done simply to protect the person at the pointy end of the use of force and the police officer legally....as in trying to equip them with the tools so they don’t get done.
If you work somewhere like a secure mental health facility and grabbed a violent service user by the neck you would be prosecuted and barred from working in such a place ever again.
The law is there to protect everyone, equally
No it’s not. If you have been trained in restraint techniques or the use of force, then you are held to those standards. If not, you are held to what the CPS or a jury consider what a reasonable person under the circumstances may have thought or done. Not being trained how to restrain someone will factor into their judgement of how he carried it out.
I agree 100% with this comment. I have just read through the thread at the start of lunch and I am appalled by some of the comments and views on display here. We middle aged men have a long way to come yet.
Agreed. I've been here a while and recognise a couple of long standing posters who used to come across as pretty decent guys, however in this thread they show themselves to be quite bitter, angry little men. Looking at you muffin.
I’d have given her a kick up the arse to finish off as she went out the door.
#internet_hardman