Unlike cars, more people on bikes would make the world a better place for everybody
Whilst I agree, that's not really relevant to my point that was a response to the statement that if you didn't spend money on cars you could retire early! (Also a point I agree is correct btw!)
To your point about cars being bad for environment, there should be a larger tax on emissions and car size surely. Expensive cars aren't necessarily bad, although I suspect most expensive cars are worse for the environment than newer cheaper ones.
It's a bit ridiculous that my non ulez compliant boxster costs a 3rd of the amount to tax as my new car. (Although in my defence I barely drive it so the environmental impact is probably quite low)
To your point about cars being bad for environment, there should be a larger tax on emissions and car size surely.
Don't disagree at all, and it's disappointing they haven't implemented it, yet.
For sure. Likewise you could say the same about any purchase you make that is ‘non essential’. That includes any bike used for recreational purposes over about 250 quid, any house that provides more than four walls, a roof and basic utilities. Holidays etc etc. Stick what you save in the bank and you could retire early
Well, except one is a £250 bike and the other is a £30k car, and the rest are relatively ongoing expenses rather than a one off.
My point was that, £30k as a lump sum with no other investments, costs or anything else, compounding at 7% for 30 years is an inflation adjusted fourfold increase.
I just find cars as some sort of financial status symbol that allows people to "question people's life choices" bonkers. However nice their seats are it's not as comfy as spending your 50s somewhere sunny riding bikes and putting your feet up rather than still being on the career treadmill.
A few years back I asked about this tax - I was considering a car that was 5.5 years old and probably low 40’s original list price
I wanted to know if I’d have to pay the full annual rate, pro rata, or nothing as previous owner had paid the lot.
The level of vitriol (and/or insinuations that I was a multimillionaire performatively claiming poverty) from people with no reading comprehension whatsoever was quite something.
Either the 10K depreciation in one year reflects the extra tax, or you've overpaid for a SH car.
Put it this way, since you knew about the tax beforehand, effectively you were paying the price plus 1600 quid. If you think the car isn't worth that, then you overpaid. If it is, you're all good.
Imo there’s an increasing number of very fancy cars being driven around in increasingly run down towns and cities.
Leases are a way for people with a modest income to make themselves look richer.
Yeah.. But you have a diesel volvo, so ultimately the jokes very much on you..;-)
No one who has motorbikes is jealous of sporty cars 🙂
Imo there’s an increasing number of very fancy cars being driven around in increasingly run down towns and cities.
Something’s gone wrong somewhere.
Or maybe it’s supposed to be like that to encourage us all to work harder.
Well there's lots of newer cars on the roads, 73/74 plate, dunno how fancy they are.
Cards on the table, I'm one of them now in a 74 plate Octavia, having dipped my toe in the leasing game for the first time. And having done that, like you I'm noticing just how many other people are probably doing the same.
Basically for about the same monthly outlay I could have financed a 3-5 year old equivalent (probably getting diddled with interest in the process), we'd have 'owned' it after a few years then as well. But then what? We'd carry all the costs for servicing/MOT/VED (I took the bolt on maintenance and tyres package) on a thoroughly depreciated asset. We could have raided our savings to buy a new or used car outright, and again ended up carrying similar costs on a depreciating asset...
At the end of the day a car is just a tool, one that has to suit our needs for a handful of years and then move on for someone else to own or lease and make use of. Our circumstances are such that we can't be sure what we will need in a couple of years time, but most probably we won't need an estate.
Don't get me wrong I know I'm just paying the depreciation on VFS's asset, but compared to what it would cost me to 'own' the same thing, or indeed an older equivalent, I'm getting a reasonable deal TBH. I think I've broken the back of my inherited notions about "owning" a car, it's the old adage innit: "the things you own, end up owning you".
I drive a nice enough car now (after years of paying over the odds for rotting shitboxes), I don't own it, and I really don't want to, because nobody makes money on cars apart from car companies and car dealers. I want to use it (for a fair agreed price) and then hand it back.
This argument whether a £40k car is luxury or not (it definitely isn’t BTW) completely misses the point that an Audi A4, Ferrari or Bentley get additionally taxed at exactly same level (£310 PA) under the expensive car levy.
Even our own chief socialist TJ has (i believe) a custom built bike costing more than a few grand. For what is basically a toy. But good on him if that’s what he wants to spend his cash on
I'm a green not a socialist. Ive never owned a car apart from one I was given that I had for a few weeks in the 70s. The bike was for special reasons. Its "Julies Bahookie" 🙂 and will last the rest of my cycling life. My bikes are not just toys. They replace cars 🙂
What I have saved over my lifetime buying ( mainly) secondhand bicycles rather than expensive cars has meant I now have lots of capital and a decent retirement at 60. I don't find my worth in material goods. I find it in friendships and experiences. I feel sorry for those who need to buy stuff to prove their own value
I don’t find my worth in material goods. I find it in friendships and experiences. I feel sorry for those who need to buy stuff to prove their own value
How about sometimes some people buy nice stuff because they enjoy using it?
It doesn't ALWAYS have to come down to materialism.
You don't always come across as being that fulfilled with joy from your life as a monk tbh
How about sometimes some people buy nice stuff because they enjoy using it?
It doesn’t ALWAYS have to come down to materialism.
Indeed. You think me buying a 2nd hand 'mid range' car is so people can say 'wow look at him, he must be doing well for himself'? Every second car on my St is as expensive, it doesn't impress anyone. I bought it because I liked it.
And given I've reached the age of 48 without ever having spent more than 10k on a car before I'm fairly comfortable in the fact that I'm now in a position to treat myself to the most expensive thing I've ever bought in my life.
Jeeez..
Get back to your tractor factory.
if you put your name down now you might be awarded a discretionary benefit in 5 year’s time.
How about sometimes some people buy nice stuff because they enjoy using it?
Oh dear, that's not going to go down well with some on here.
Why do some people think that others buy expensive cars to show off and make people think they are rich ?
I find it interesting that when people talk to me about my id Buzz , they really love the car and are enthusiastic about it and how they would love to buy one. That’s a £72k list price car.
Yet on the other thread where the OP is asking about a £50-60k defender ( could be more / less depending on spec of course), he gets flamed by some for his ostentatious choices.
I think it’s naive to think that there isn’t at least some % of the population that is buying cars that are more expensive than they would ‘normally’ be able to afford on PCP because of a desire to keep up with the joneses. That said, it obviously isn’t everyone.
Judging people’s spending (or ability to spend) is basically a British pastime and I’m 100% confident people judge what I choose to spend my money on and that’s fine. As for the Defender thread it’s not even the ostentatious nature of it, if he chose to drop £50k on a watch (for example) then I’d roll my eyes at the choice because it doesn’t match my personal values but that’d be the end of it.
The extra special thing about the Defender (or indeed, any heavy, large internal combustion powered luxury vehicle bought for ‘toy’ purposes) is that the general switch to cars like that comes at the expense of the safety and air quality of everyone else. Yeah that’s some hand wringing lefty/green crap sure, but those are my values so that’s what you get from me.
Reading through this the thing that gets me is that it’s really easy to figure out if your “luxury” car is more highly taxed, like finding out the tax of any new/older car. A 40k car (whether cash/pcp/lease) is a purely discretionary purchase. Buy a £39,999 car if you are bothered by the extra tax. Oh and £40k car is very nice thing that most of the population would be extremely happy with.
There’s a few on our school run who’ve definitely picked up a vehicle purely to show off to the neighbours. One’s a brand new defender 110 in stormtrooper white with white panniers, wheels and ladders. The others an e-tron of some sort. Both driven by the sort of person who can’t walk more than 1m to the school gates. I guarantee that both will get adorned with the cheapest LandSail ditchfinders when they discover the cost of tyres. Bought purely as a status symbol. They are rare though.
I bought my own extravagance as I knew it was that last of its kind, the absolute end of an era and I wanted to be a part of it. Most people haven’t a clue what it is, and that’s just fine with me. Occasionally you’ll get someone who knows come up to me and meekly say “is that a qua, quadric, quatroformagio?” (Sic)
And I go “why yes, yes it is” and smile knowingly.
And that’s usually where it ends. It’s a thing for me and me alone, to enjoy, cosset and drool over. I couldn’t give a fig what other people think. It’s lush, and I’m very lucky to have been in the position to get one. I don’t mind paying the VED. What I do mind is the fact that it bears no relation to the impact the vehicle has. A flat figure is the wrong figure, set arbitrarily for no other reason than we count in base-10. Realistically it should be more and directly linked to its George Best-like thirst.
I’ve done the cashpoint car thing. The 10pm bid on eBay on some unseen £1500 shitbox to tide me over (for 3 years in one instance), combined with a constant worry over whether a card will get declined when you chuck a tenner in. Thankfully I’m not there any more, but you never know what twists and turns life might present.
Leases are a way for people with a modest income to make themselves look richer.
Really ? I think leases are financially savvy way of getting to drive a nice car.
Oh and £40k car is very nice thing that most of the population would be extremely happy with.
That’s the point, they are not. Car companies are charging £40k + for really dull , horrible cars.
Nice cars are now £70/£80k +
That’s the point, they are not. Car companies are charging £40k + for really dull , horrible cars.
Nice cars are now £70/£80k +
I don't agree with that tbh. My cars list price was 42k. It's a nice place to sit with performance that wasnt far off super car territory 20 odd years ago. The difference is that it can carry a bike and 2 dogs!
I don't think we should confuse a nice car with a luxury car. There are plenty of very nice cars about for considerably less than 70k!
Why do some people think that others buy expensive cars to show off and make people think they are rich ?
because the first thing they do is make an internet post to humblebrag about how unfair the Expensive Car Supplement is?
I don’t think we should confuse a nice car with a luxury car. There are plenty of very nice cars about for considerably less than 70k!
Agree on that. They should rename the existing tax to ‘nice car’ tax and then add a more expensive tier at say, £70k and call that the luxury car tax.
Horrible 40k cars? Really. Even the cheapest of new cars like a Dacia or an MG is pretty good thing these days. “Dull” or cheap,safe,reliable transport is what most people want.
I find it in friendships and experiences. I feel sorry for those who need to buy stuff to prove their own value
you know you can have friendships, experiences and own nice stuff too? They aren’t mutually exclusive.
although I have two shit cars and no friends. 😉
Really ? I think leases are financially savvy way of getting to drive a nice car.
Pay the depreciation on a new car, or for the same repayment loan, pay for the capital AND depreciation on a three to five year old car? The latter leaves you with capital. Personally I would be purchasing capital. Although this may depend on finance rates.
Most purchasers look at the monthly repayment.
Tbh the way cars are taxed at the moment does seem to be a massive mess that rarely makes much sense, or provide enough disincentive to the most polluting, biggest and/or dangerous cars.
Maybe it's just so when road pricing comes along it looks like the better option.
Indeed and a £40 000 car is way beyond the means of the majority of the population
If they had to find 40k to buy it I’d agree, but they don’t. How much does it cost per month? Car prices have gone insane in the last few years but the cost to finance/lease has not necessarily gone in the same direction.
We had a 25k list price car in 2014, just below 40k (so missed the excess tax) in 2018 and 58k(!!!) last year. The cost per month hasn’t changed that much.
We also have a 13 year old car with 130k on the clock that if you work out what it has cost per month would be more than you’d think. Cars are expensive unless you can fix them yourself.
because the first thing they do is make an internet post to humblebrag about how unfair the Expensive Car Supplement is?
Well I've had it for 2 months so not the first thing really. And only on stw would starting a thread with 'I can't afford'..followed by stating I bought a car worth less than the average price of a new car in the uk be considered a humble brag. Some of you are down right weird..
Gold
Why is it gold? You are obviously implying that I only bought the car to keep up with my neighbours yes? It's a second hand estate ffs not a lambo. Get a grip you judgemental fool.
“Dull” or cheap,safe,reliable transport is what most people want.
Absolutely! You can't really buy a crap car any more. They are fundamentally pretty much all one and the same, just with different badges. The software / gadgets is where - to some extent - they differ. But physically and build etc; if you put someone blindfolded in any car of the same class from any manufacture - they'd be hard pushed to tell a difference! Which as an average consumer (which almost everybody is) is great.
You can’t really buy a crap car any more
Well that's perhaps why they cost so much new! Average cost of a new car is 35k apparently! You can certainly still buy crap cars second hand, I know this from recent exp!
Err….
When I considered pcp it would have been about 550 quid for a 40k ish car on pcp. Alot of money every month no doubt but between a working couple it's clearly affordable for many
Does anyone actually buy new cars any more? The bulk of the second-hand market is surely former lease vehicles. I've been in company cars / PCH cars for years, there is no way in hell I would countenance buying a brand new car. The last car I bought outright was a Vauxhall Cavalier which I think cost me £800 twenty years ago (so about twice that today).
How about we scrap VED completely, add a penny on a litre of fuel. The V6 gas guzzlers and the high mileagers pay more and rightly so. The whole point of the tax disc when I was first driving (aside from, well, tax) is that it was the last thing you got when sorting your paperwork out, you needed everything else in order first. You then had a visible indicator in your windscreen that the driver had a licence and insurance. Today with ANPR and everything computerised it's archaic.
Well I don’t know when you bought that but look at the market now, the average house price in England is £310K.
Four years ago. The thing about averages is, there will always be a variance either side, otherwise it would be a single figure. I paid half that for a 5-bedroom mid terrace in decent nick with three reception rooms and a huge kitchen, because I bought in Burnley rather than London.
This thread really does demonstrate how people are so willing to spend massive amounts on cars for no reason at all because they have bought the marketing hype and want the status of the latest and greatest rep mobile so they can waft along in comfort.
Why would you not want to be comfortable? That's an idiotic argument. Wallpaper serves absolutely no purpose beyond looking pretty, is the inside your house down to bare brick and plaster? I assume you don't have wild extravagances like "furniture" when instead you can sit on an upturned packing crate next to a table made from broken-down pallets and sleep on the floor rather than having the latest and greatest "beds" that you can waft along in. Plenty of people spend a lot of time in cars.
If you can afford it fine crack on but if you are drawn to complaining about £600 a year maybe you should not have spent so much on a car.
This though I do agree with. I've seen Ferrari owners moaning about a wheel nut costing £200. If you can't afford a £200 wheel nut, you're driving the wrong car.
Err….
Not sure what’s difficult to understand?
The cost per month hasn’t changed that much.
I disagree . I’ve had 2 BMWs in the past, the 2nd one was £330pm To get a similar BMW today would be roughly £700-£800pm
All cars are not roughly the same these days, the more you pay the better they get. What puzzles me is why people will spend £40k on a really bad modern day Golf (ID3)
Last 2 cars we have bought was a Merc that new would have been £70k. The sales neglected to tell me about the £40k plus tax when the ‘free’ 6 months tax ran out. It does come as a bit of a shock when you buy a car for £32k
I didn’t mi d paying £32k for a Merc that is big, very comfortable, safe , quiet etc etc
I didn’t like paying £22k for a 2nd hand Polo. It’s ok but no where near the same league of the Merc.
So back to op, I think unfortunately garages know they can’t shift slight 2nd cars as it is, if you told perspective buyers about the £40k tax they would sell even less
If you can afford it fine crack on but if you are drawn to complaining about £600 a year maybe you should not have spent so much on a car.
As I've said numerous times, I think it's an unfair tax, that's my opinion. Some agree, others dont. I certainly never said I couldn't afford to pay it. The title of the thread is 'first world problem' which is perhaps a clue...
The thread was started about tax, but appears to have descended into a debate about the rights and wrongs of folks spending their own money on stuff that other posters don't think they need..and their motivations for doing so..
Typical stw..
So back to op, I think unfortunately garages know they can’t shift slight 2nd cars as it is, if you told perspective buyers about the £40k tax they would sell even less
Yeah.it was a bit cheaky that on the site it actually stated 120 per year tax and the first time they actually mentioned the extra cost was as i was signing the forms
that said I was already aware of it, but only through own research beforehand. But yeah, they certainly don't advertise the fact.
because the first thing they do is make an internet post to humblebrag about how unfair the Expensive Car Supplement is?
Not sure why you read it that way, I read it that someone bought a car not knowing they had to pay tax on a value they hadn’t paid .
i was caught out by this too . The sales team certainly don’t warn you
Also while we are it , why not bring a tax in on push bikes. No one needs a polish bike that costs over £500 ( and that’s being generous)
