First off, I don't condone what he's accused off and I don't think any right minded person would.
I see two stories here.
The first is the issue if health and wealth inequality seen all over the world but perhaps most visible in the United States
The second is the current framing of the story in mainstream media.
New feed this morning threw up clips of his "peep walk". It seems somewhat excessive. I've seen less overt security when transporting marvel supervillains..
Would there be this same framing if he was accused of murdering someone with a significantly smaller financial profile?
Does this response actually illustrate the point I believe he was trying to make? What would be the response if he was accused of killing someone if average income or below?
I was at a gig this week where the band framed this as "earlier this year a man in America got shot". When you put it like that, of course the security and coverage is completely overblown. People get shot in America every single day.
The reasons for that vary, sometimes it's because someone looked at someone the wrong way - in this case it's because the killer had strongly held beliefs about the gulf between rich and poor in America and the economic and societal system that supports it. Which, while harming anyone for your goal is wrong, is probably a better reason than most have for shooting people in the US.
The coverage is clearly aimed at quelling any support for Luigi.
There are load of people praising him on social media but most those comments have been deleted and moderated so now only the mainstream narrative exists.
Which is exactly what will happen here if anyone dares express an opinion saying the CEO deserved it.
I can't remember the number, but someone totally up the tax payer cost for such a heavily resourced perp walk, including all the tactical gear. Then pointed out that they couldn't find a ballistic vest for Luigi. So, that clearly wasn't about keeping him safe. He's not the Don of a mafia family so they can't have been expecting a rescue mission.
Zero chance of a fair trial I fear.
I'm not going to say the CEO deserved it.
It does however remind me of someone once pointing out that everyone was a lot more considerate when we all wore a sword on our hip.
Agree that there is zero chance of a fair trial. But that cuts both ways and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a much lighter sentence.
The jury selection will be interesting, lots of suspicion they are trying to use the terrorism as a way to get away with no jury
Regarding the lighter sentence, my understanding was the reason for bringing the additional federal charges was to open up the possibility of a death sentence.
Absolutely, they need some way to threaten the poors.
However there is probably a decent chance that the jury could screw them over. Unless they manage to select a while bunch of white, male ceo's. Which isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
When you read about first hand experiences of negotiating the US health care system (which undoubtedly gets very personal very quickly say vs finance or hospitality), in tandem with the propensity for firearms and the willingness to use them, the whole thing seems entirely unsurprising.
I'm not going to say the ceo deserved it either. But he's a lot more deserving of it than most. Let's face it, his actions will directly have resulted in many innocent people dying.
So my sympathy is somewhat lacking tbh
We all have a personal moral responsibility and if we ignore that and people die as a result then we should expect to be held accountable. Karma’s a bitch.
Pretty sure I've had warnings for expressing that kind of view.
I can't condone the murder of a CEO, even one part of the hideous American medical insurance industry. But I can understand the anger and frustration that leads to it.
He'll be found guilty of murder because if he is the guy who pulled the trigger then he is guilty of murder.
Edit
So my sympathy is somewhat lacking tbh
Sums my view up better than I did
The CEO 'should' have been done for manslaughter at the least. But not murdered himself.
That said, zero ***** given.
It does however remind me of someone once pointing out that everyone was a lot more considerate when we all wore a sword on our hip.
Swords were very expensive. Only the rich had access to that sort of accessory. Plus ça change...
Pitchforks were cheap though,
Apparently this is a thing in the USA... couples getting divorced as a planned strategy to prevent a sick partner bankrupting the household with medical costs...
I feel much the same way I feel when a terrorist gets killed. On a purely intellectual level I'm against it. There should be better ways of dealing with threats to our safety than simply killing them without any kind of process.
However, in terms of emotions, I feel some satisfaction that someone who has killed people and ruined thousands of lives is dead.
And just to be clear, I don't believe comparing the US Health Industry to terrorists is hyperbole.
I think Mangione should go with self-defence as justification for hie actions during his trial.
Possibly a lot of the mainstream media framing is to drown out the fact that a large portion of the American population is seeing him as some sort of folk hero.
Pretty sure I’ve had warnings for expressing that kind of view.
Let's face it, that is the reason most people are being restrained. Maybe CEOs like this should recognise it as an extension of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
And just to be clear, I don’t believe comparing the US Health Industry to terrorists is hyperbole.
I think Mangione should go with self-defence as justification for hie actions during his trial
US health system kills far more people than terrorism every year!
Interesting take on his defence. He's a multi millionaire so I can't see how the horrendous healthcare system would actually impact him. But 'in defense of others' is a plausible argument. He'll be going to jail for along time however..
As unlikely as it is, if this actually causes a real change, his name should live on for ever.
There's a greeting I recently read
"I hope you have the day you deserve"
I see it in a similar light to a mafia boss getting whacked.
He'll be mourned by family and a few friends if he had any. Most other people will be somewhere between indifferent and celebratory about a very rich man , rich off the back of immense suffering, having karma catch up with him.
I can’t condone the murder of a CEO, even one part of the hideous American medical insurance industry. But I can understand the anger and frustration that leads to it.
He’ll be found guilty of murder because if he is the guy who pulled the trigger then he is guilty of murder.
hmmm there is a defence for this.
Art of law did a little video.
...everyone was a lot more considerate when we all wore a sword on our hip...
That aphorism doesn't stand scrutiny for a second. When exactly was this "considerate" sword wearing period? It's similar to the argument proposed by the gun lobby in the USA, that everyone would be safer if everyone carried guns, and just as daft.
It's interesting to see so many people flirting with sympathy for Magione's action, or simply offering outright approval. The problem with vigilantism is that if you open that door, all bets are off, and it's not just the CEOs of greedy, unethical companies that are in the firing line. People who approve of taking the law into your own hands never seem to think that bit through.
It’s interesting to see so many people flirting with sympathy for Magione’s action, or simply offering outright approval. The problem with vigilantism is that if you open that door, all bets are off, and it’s not just the CEOs of greedy, unethical companies that are in the firing line. People who approve of taking the law into your own hands never seem to think that bit through.
Absolutely this, it's a Pandora's box. Who gets to choose which causes are "just"?
On the other hand, the system they have is loaded in such away that companies like the one the CEO guy was in charge of make profit from misery, with no ability for the "little guy" to have a comeback or change the system, I'm only surprised that it's taken someone this long to take the law into their own hands.
Apparently, my brother in law's company were going to renew their corporate insurance programme with United Healthcare, but after this incident they checked up on the company and realised just how many claims were denied. So this may have a lasting effect.
The problem with vigilantism is that if you open that door, all bets are off, and it’s not just the CEOs of greedy, unethical companies that are in the firing line.
Oh yes indeed. You should see my list 🙂
Are we allowed to share our lists, or is that frowned upon?
Who gets to choose which causes are “just”?
With lobbying and the huge influence of money in US policymaking, rich CEOs choose at the moment.
Violence isn't a good way to change things, but what other options do people have against the health system? It has been broadly maintained throughout Democrat and Republican governments, which are the two political choices.
Are we allowed to share our lists, or is that frowned upon?
What happens if someone is on more than one list? A transfer market for targets? "You can have X, but I want Y and Z in return"
About 90% of the worlds population are on my list so I won't mind if someone helps me out taking a few folk out 🙂
…everyone was a lot more considerate when we all wore a sword on our hip…
That aphorism doesn’t stand scrutiny for a second. When exactly was this “considerate” sword wearing period? It’s similar to the argument proposed by the gun lobby in the USA, that everyone would be safer if everyone carried guns, and just as daft.
It's not saying that everyone should be armed, swords or gun. It's more than people are more considerate of the consequences of their actions have immediate repercussions.
As others have said, violence shouldn't be the answer but what other avenue do these people have? The system is so corrupted that they have no voice, power or method to appeal. The system is broken and those suffering have no way to fix it.
Where to draw the line is a serious and difficult question, but it's not reason enough to keep ignoring the problem.
Violence isn’t a good way to change things
Depends what you mean by good but it can be incredibly effective, you have to go the whole hog mind - armed insurrection.
Individual assassinations of the kind which Luigi Mangione is alleged to be responsible for are not however in any way justified, imo.
He’s a multi millionaire so I can’t see how the horrendous healthcare system would actually impact him.
Is he personally a multi millionaire?
He comes from a rich and apparently well respected family, but he's old enough to need his own health insurance, and has a fairly significant underlying health condition. He appears to have been fairly independent, and no doubt he'll have received financial support from his family, however the reports I seen seemed to suggest he struggled to work, or have relationships due his health problems, and would be facing significant medical bills.
my brother in law’s company were going to renew their corporate insurance programme with United Healthcare, but after this incident they checked up on the company and realised just how many claims were denied
This is a standard report that all companies who buy health insurance from an insurer would get. It would not be a surprise
Violence isn’t a good way to change things
History wants a word with you.
On the subject of the OP, I have no sympathy for the victim. He was directly and indirectly for death, pain and suffering. The health system in the US is barbaric.
Depends what you mean by good but it can be incredibly effective, you have to go the whole hog mind – armed insurrection.
While not without the occasional positive outcome, history is littered with case studies of revolutions ending badly for pretty much everyone except whoever is ruthless and lucky enough to grab power next.
It’s not saying that everyone should be armed, swords or gun
But you wrote "we all wore a sword".
As others have said, violence shouldn’t be the answer but what other avenue do these people have? The system is so corrupted that they have no voice, power or method to appeal. The system is broken and those suffering have no way to fix it.
You start by voting for someone who will reform the system. A huge number of the people who are suffering the most under the US health industry and have "no way to fix it" have happily voted for a candidate who is guaranteed to perpetuate the system for the benefit of his corporate chums.
Where to draw the line is a serious and difficult question, but it’s not reason enough to keep ignoring the problem.
It's not difficult to draw a line. Individuals should not be dispensing their own justice.
Individuals should not be dispensing their own justice
Is true but that also relies on there being a governmental system that functions. There are apparently 'ways' of dealing with the problems of these companies that don't involve shooting people but I'm not sure anyone knows what they are. When a company can use software to deny people claims so that they have to fight when they are at their weakest so that the top people can claim huge bonuses that is clearly completely wrong and also untouchable
Murder is horrific. So cannot say anything other than i hope they nail the killer to the wall. This is a social issue that can only be dealt with at governmental level, and it should never be some deluded individuals responsibility to do such a thing.
Sure the responsibility lies with the corruption that is endemic in the US government system, and the 'little guy' has no choice.
The only way is for someone to rise to the top and make the changes. Whether that can or could happen i seriously doubt, but taking the law into your hands and putting all the blame on a single individual is not the answer, nor do i think this CEO is really to blame. More the lobbyists and corrupt senators who support them.
Murder is horrific. So cannot say anything other than i hope they nail the killer to the wall.
Fantastic choice of words there fella. Really helps your argument. Which tbh, only gets more incoherent the more you read. So it can only be dealt with by government, but the government is corrupt and you doubt it can be changed....so?
