[Closed] Lower drink driving limit

mikewsmith - Member
They could hit any quota on the M6 of a morning or the M60/62
Babies carried on laps - attempted murder
Applying makeup while driving - dangerous driving
reading the paper/meeting notes - dangerous driving
eating bowl of cereal - dangerous driving
tailgating - dangerous driving
overtaking on blind bends - dangerous driving

Whatever it is I could have filled any quota in a couple of hours, there is no need to make it up.

Regardless beyond that, police quotas are a terrible idea as they are 1 step away from the monetisation and privatisation of the police force, and turning it into a revenue collection service..

seosamh77 - Member

Driving is dangerous

All things considered, it's surprisingly safe. More people die from falling over than driving.

polis

It is spelled "police", young seosamh77.
HTH.

konabunny - Member

I was breatalysed straight after 2 pints of Pedigree and passed so always used 2 pints as my limit when I drove.

If it was right after, your body might not have absorbed all the alcohol at the moment you were tested.

sbob - Member
seosamh77 - Member
Driving is dangerous

All things considered, it's surprisingly safe. More people die from falling over than driving.

polis
It is spelled "police", young seosamh77.
HTH.

Point 1 is very true, hence my reluctance to flood the streets with more law enforcers/revenue collectors.

Point 2, unfortunately, due to the lack of Scottish independence, the Glasgow Schemey dictionary hasn't yet become law! Sometimes I forget! 😆

I think the limit is fine as-is darn sarf. I can have one beer at a pub and drive home safely 🙂

seosamh77
Driving is dangerous, you aren't going to legislate that to no danger.

You can have a good crack. In the last 40 odd years, we've started legislating for drink driving, seatbelts, crash testing, traffic calming, etc etc etc.

In that time, road fatalities per mile driven have fallen by about 87%

Maybe not all of these things have had major effects on their own, but overall, it's been a positive effort with positive results.

[i]All smacks to me of the snp falling in line with Europe rather than the rUK. [/i]

Only if the fine/bans were equalized, as when I lived in Germany for a first offence of DD it was a months ban and had to be taken within a year and only applied in Germany - so was usually taken when on holiday in Spain 🙂

We already have many unenforced laws so why not add some more. It makes the politicians feel relevant.

[quote=mt ]We already have many unenforced laws so why not add some more. It makes the politicians feel relevant.
But it already [i]is[/i] enforced (>50,000 convictions pa) - it's just that the limit is reduced.

doris5000 - Member
seosamh77
Driving is dangerous, you aren't going to legislate that to no danger.
You can have a good crack. In the last 40 odd years, we've started legislating for drink driving, seatbelts, crash testing, traffic calming, etc etc etc.

In that time, road fatalities per mile driven have fallen by about 87%

Maybe not all of these things have had major effects on their own, but overall, it's been a positive effort with positive results.

Just having a quick look online, it seems that you can get a decent breathalyser for about £40.

http://www.alcosense.co.uk/alcosense-lite.html

I might get hold of one of these.
Quite often in the week, I'll have half a bottle of wine in the evening with my wife (between perhaps 8:15-10:30). I wonder where this leaves me in the morning, blood alcohol-wise? Always assumed it was OK based on the 1hr to digest 1 unit yardstick, but that's only an approximation. A bottle of wine is ~9 units. So 4.5 units each over an evening, means I should be good to go by the next morning, but.....it would be good to know.

Well if we adopted this ridiculous lower limit in England then my sailing club bar would close as would many of the fantastic local rural pubs. If you cant spend the day/evening engaging in an outdoor activity with your mates sailing,riding,walking etc and then have a pint at the end of it in or outside some beautiful oak beamed pub without worrying about being stopped on the way home and losing everything you have worked for then I would be incredibly depressed . The limit is just fine the way it is thanks.

The latter factors you mention will have a large effect though, I'd guess a pint will be fine.

sounds like you are being a wee bit draconian in your measuring?

True, but it puts in in perspective how little it could take. Pint on an empty stonach?

Well if we adopted this ridiculous lower limit in England then my sailing club bar would close as would many of the fantastic local rural pubs. If you cant spend the day/evening engaging in an outdoor activity with your mates sailing,riding,walking etc and then have a pint at the end of it in or outside some beautiful oak beamed pub without worrying about being stopped on the way home and losing everything you have worked for then I would be incredibly depressed . The limit is just fine the way it is thanks.

<straw man alert>
What about the poor hitmen who are unfairly out of work due to the murder limit, surely they could increace the limit to "a bit more dead" to accomodate their jobs?
</straw man alert>

My sailing club serves coke, diet coke, ginger beer, lemonade, etc, etc, probably makes more of a margin on those than the beer too.

Is there an App for working out chance of being over the limit? Enter each drink and time drunk - could work...?!

With 25% of drink drivers being repeat offenders I think tackling this group would be more worthwhile.

tinas are you a child? do you actually know what a straw man is?

I won't dignify your idiotic statement about hitmen with an answer and yes our bar serves soft drinks but equally I can't see any of the hairy arsed crews (most of the clientele) bothering to come in for a coke after a race for a few quid each when they can just grab one from the fridge in the boat. Draught beer on the other hand is a delight when hand pulled.

mudshark - Member
Is there an App for working out chance of being over the limit? Enter each drink and time drunk - could work...?!

Google alcohol technical defence (ATD). I guess you could get most of the way with a good app, however there a currently plenty of people on both sides of convictions who make a living out of arguing about this.

Matt

With 25% of drink drivers being repeat offenders I think tackling this group would be more worthwhile.

Sounds like they are (they've been caught and dealt with).

And it's 25% of those caught, I'm sure 99.999% of offenders are people who just have a couple on riday night after work (or at the Sailing club or Golf club bar) and all of them are probably re-offenders having done it last Friday?

yes our bar serves soft drinks but equally I can't see any of the hairy arsed crews (most of the clientele) bothering to come in for a coke after a race for a few quid each when they can just grab one from the fridge in the boat. Draught beer on the other hand is a delight when hand pulled.

I'm glad you've been staring at my backside, I must get my long johns stiched up.

We race, so no fridges :-p , and mines a coke.

Draught beer on the other hand is a delight when hand pulled.

This SNP?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27383267

Exactly my point!

That's a proposal from an SDLP MP-

"Mr Durkan said Northern Ireland's drink-drive laws would be brought into line with Europe, including the Republic of Ireland."

(Btw i'm not strictly anti snp & don't want to get into that whole debate!)

I think legislation to protect young drivers & to target repeat offenders would be more useful..

I think Friday 12pm to Saturday 5am should be a free for all.

Well if we adopted this ridiculous lower limit in England then my sailing club bar would close as would many of the fantastic local rural pubs. If you cant spend the day/evening engaging in an outdoor activity with your mates sailing,riding,walking etc and then have a pint at the end of it in or outside some beautiful oak beamed pub without worrying about being stopped on the way home and losing everything you have worked for then I would be incredibly depressed . The limit is just fine the way it is thanks.

This sounds an awful lot like the [i]"I'm posh so I should be allowed to do what I like"[/i] defence. 😀

If this measure turns out to reduce road casualties in Scotland then will you be in favour of it then?

I think the point of a lower limit isn't that the lower limit itself will make much of a difference compared to the previous limit, but more that it might make some people think twice about drinking at all when they're goind to drive.

I don't drink at all if I'm driving (or drink more than a couple of pints or glasses of wine if I need to drive the next morning) so I can't say it's of concern for me - although I'd rather see heavier enforcement of whatever limit is set.

If you cant spend the day/evening engaging in an outdoor activity with your mates sailing,riding,walking etc and then have a pint at the end of it in or outside some beautiful oak beamed pub without worrying about being stopped on the way home and losing everything you have worked for then I would be incredibly depressed .

All smacks to me of the snp falling in line with Europe rather than the rUK.

Why dont we fit all cars with Interlock

Well if we adopted this ridiculous lower limit in England then my sailing club bar would close as would many of the fantastic local rural pubs. If you cant spend the day/evening engaging in an outdoor activity with your mates sailing,riding,walking etc and then have a pint at the end of it in or outside some beautiful oak beamed pub without worrying about being stopped on the way home and losing everything you have worked for then I would be incredibly depressed . The limit is just fine the way it is thanks.

As ever, Lots of people think the worst that can happen to them is to lose their licence, not kill someone due to impared reactions in a one ton lump of metal. Sad.

epicsteve - Member

I think the point of a lower limit isn't that the lower limit itself will make much of a difference compared to the previous limit, but more that it might make some people think twice about drinking at all when they're goind to drive.

Absolutely- the message is "don't drink at all and drive", it's not "You can now only drink 5/8ths as much as you used to be able to". It's a much simpler message and I think probably going to be an effective one, people see wriggle room in the current rules. Oh I can have one, oh it's ages since i had the last so I'll be fine, oh I had something to eat, it's not that strong a beer, I'm quite a big lad... Not "I'm fine drinking drunk" but believing (or hoping) they're within the law.

In the sticks everyone drives to and from the pub as it`s miles .The whole of Mendip could probably get banned over a weekend

As ever, Lots of people think the worst that can happen to them is to lose their licence, not kill someone due to impared reactions in a one ton lump of metal. Sad.

Why would I be significantly more likely to kill someone after a pint?

Now that is a straw man argument.

Why would I be significantly more likely to kill someone after a pint?

the whole point of the new limit, as said by me on first page and many others after is to make having alcohol and then driving unacceptable, both legally and socially.

Why ? because it is proven beyond all doubt that alcohol impairs reactions.

I, in common with many, would often in the past have a single glass of wine or bottle of beer if out, after work, or at a dinner, and then drive, but I wont now, so surely that has to be a good thing ?

[quote=iainc ]
I, in common with many, would often in the past have a single glass of wine or bottle of beer if out, after work, or at a dinner, and then drive, but I wont now, so surely that has to be a good thing ?
Unless you own a brewery or a vineyard - you heartless bastard!!

😉

😀

Why would I be significantly more likely to kill someone after a pint?

Thing is I do adapt my driving based on how I'm feeling, so whether its manflu or a couple of pints I adjust my driving accordingly e.g. no music to distract me, drive slightly slower etc.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-caught-a-drink-driver-this-evening ]I posted this six months ago[/url] my vigilante activities on page one are of less relevance than the bit of light research on page two, where we established two cans of Stella could get the [i]"average"[/i] male pretty close to the 80mg limit, drop it to 50mg and I don't think it would be worth the risk of even having a half of lager if you were driving that evening.

It's all down to the individual concerned and how they metabolise booze... I assume going to 50mg rather than say 20 or 30 still gives a reasonable tolerance for potential errors in measurement (with modern equipment) and will also bring some of those who would previously been "Borderline" into range for a banning...

Absolutely- the message is "don't drink at all and drive", it's not "You can now only drink 5/8ths as much as you used to be able to". It's a much simpler message and I think probably going to be an effective one, people see wriggle room in the current rules.

But it can never be so clear cut - how long a gap is suitable? A lunchtime beer then drive home in the evening? Over night? 24 hrs?

[quote=Pembo ]so whether its manflu or a couple of pints I adjust my driving accordingly e.g. no music to distract me, drive slightly slower etc.
Which part of "alcohol impairs judgement" are you failing to understand?

the whole point of the new limit, as said by me on first page and many others after is to make having alcohol and then driving unacceptable, both legally and socially.

A 50mg limit won't do that, though - only a 0mg limit would. As is, people will be still be making the "1 pint then an hour and I should be OK" type calculation.

Even then I doubt it would be socially unacceptable, most people (myself included) would probably find it hard to condemn someone who genuinely only had one small glass of wine and then failed a test.

Surely the 'impaired after a pint' argument only holds true down south? 😀

As is, people will be still be making the "1 pint then an hour and I should be OK" type calculation.

The trouble is a fair proportion of them may still be [i]right[/i] depending on:

1- A pint of what exactly? ~3.5% or 5%+ alcohol content will make all the difference.

2- The individual: a 6'-6" man mountain may well be able to chug a pint and be under that 50mg/100ml limit, where someone smaller might well go over that limit drinking the exact same thing...

As someone who barely ever drinks these days (normally because I'll probably have to drive somewhere in the not too distant future) I actually welcome the lowering of the limit, I'd like it to go lower to help remove that "Wiggle room" but it's a step in the right direction IMO, it won't affect my behaviour, but I would like to see it affect other peoples TBH...

Surely the 'impaired after a pint' argument only holds true down south?

One day decent beer may be available in the north, until then...

Scotroutes - Which part of "alcohol impairs judgement" are you failing to understand?

Now ... where's my car keys.....

[img] [/img]

"beacuase alcohol impairs your functions. FACT."

Righto - so on Saturday I'll get in my car, throw two dogs and three children in the back, switch on the sat-nav, crank up some AC/DC, take a call on my hands free and have a quick argument with the wife in the passenger seat who wants to listen to Jeremy Vine......and that's just fine

But god forbid on Sunday if I want to have a bike ride with a mate followed by a post ride wind down beer after which I'll carefully drive home relaxed and undistracted....because obviously I'm IMPAIRED...FACT!!!!!!!!

I think most reasonable comments here agree that necking a few pints then rallying home from pub is bad mmmmkay. What I think is the more pertinent question, bearing in mind the demographic of this forum is this question;

Your an average sized (say 85kg) male, it's a Friday night and between 8 and 11 you drink a bottle of wine (or equivalent) so around 10 units approx?

At what time are you safe to drive? Clearly it will be the following day, but are we talking 9am, Mid day, 6pm?

Why would I be significantly more likely to kill someone after a pint?

Because your judgement is impaired, and so you don't actually know what effect it has on you!. 😀

I was merely trying to point out that I hear that point quite often. From people who drink and drive, their main worry is the cops, and losing their licence, and not the poor bastard who ends up on a slab. And with so many really good bottle conditioned ales around now, a beer at home is every bit as good, if not more consistent, than a pub pint. And if the pub really matters that much to you, move house.