Do we have productivity problems because so many people are a bit crap at their jobs? Because they haven’t b been effectively trained in basic skills through the education system
Massive lack of investment in training / resources as I understand. There will people better than me at explaining that one.
Quick question that I haven't seen asked or answered as I've had to skip a few pages in this fast moving thread but is anybody managing the upside on the fuel situation? Obviously if the price cap is put in place and the Govt promises to fill in the difference, there's no limit to how much **** we (the country) can get into. Surely it's a gift for the oil/gas companies?
So… back on topic…
The topic was about Truss spending 140bn to subsidise energy bills etc. And how that might happen.
It wasn't off-topic.
Pure ignroance.
Speeder
Full Member
Quick question that I haven’t seen asked or answered as I’ve had to skip a few pages in this fast moving thread but is anybody managing the upside on the fuel situation? Obviously if the price cap is put in place and the Govt promises to fill in the difference, there’s no limit to how much **** we (the country) can get into. Surely it’s a gift for the oil/gas companies?
Without someway of, at minimum, taxing the extra profits, yes it's absolutely a gift to the energy companies.
I'd nationalise everything to do with energy.
rone
Full Member
So… back on topic…The topic was about Truss spending 140bn to subsidise energy bills etc. And how that might happen.
It wasn’t off-topic.
Pure ignroance.
We all understand the concept of deficit, and that we spend more than we tax. Next point please.
Obviously if the price cap is put in place and the Govt promises to fill in the difference, there’s no limit to how much **** we (the country) can get into. Surely it’s a gift for the oil/gas companies?
She’s just effectively written the energy companies a taxpayer funded blank cheque
The profiteering they’ve already been gleefully indulging in is going to pale into insignificance compared to what they’re going to get up to this winter in an orgy of price-gouging
Welcome to corporate socialism
Corporate theft.
Righto
Can we please get back on topic because we’ve been through this a million times?
Not because your reference to the Weimar Republic and the pressure that the Treaty of Versailles put on Germany exactly a 100 years ago is ridiculous?
Obviously if the price cap is put in place and the Govt promises to fill in the difference, there’s no limit to how much **** we (the country) can get into. Surely it’s a gift for the oil/
Yes there is some truth in that but the only rapid fix for the short term is to subsidise the bills.
Long term we need a better plan.
The tax take is largely irrelevant in this process. Hence the Tories aren't doing it because it's not needed in the process.
It’s basically like Brown bailing the banks out then giving them the nod that they could happily carry on with the whole sub-prime mortgage thing
We all understand the concept of deficit, and that we spend more than we tax.
Are you sure? Are you sure that voters understand and/or Labour are articulating that point to them?
Labour's counterproposal doesn't seem to.
Edit: The coalition government's austerity measures, which cost approx 57000 lives, were sold on claim of the necessity of balanced budgets.
She’s just effectively written the energy companies a taxpayer funded blank cheque
Rubbish. Absolute rubbish.
For a start they haven't published the funding details yet and taxes don't pay for government spending.
Second Q/E might get used in which case the process would not involve any tax payers at all.
You see, it's convenient to marginalise me because it shows terrible flaws in your analysis.
(Labour's plan only was for 29bn and only 8bn was windfall tax - where do you think the other bit was coming from?)
It’s basically like Brown bailing the banks out then giving them the nod that they could happily carry on with the whole sub-prime mortgage thing
Sub prime was a US affair that affected the world.
I don't understand Brown's contribution to sub-prime?
Have I missed something?
So,
Liz Truss, then?
ernielynch
Free Member
We all understand the concept of deficit, and that we spend more than we tax.Are you sure? Are you sure that voters understand and/or Labour are articulating that point to them?
Labour’s counterproposal doesn’t seem to.
Up here in Scotland we all learned what it was 10 years ago, people wouldn't shut up about it. Dunno about down south mind. Interesting that now it's fully admitted that the uk runs a deficit, guess you could be forgiven for thinking that it was only Scotland that ran one. 😆
We all understand the concept of deficit, and that we spend more than we tax. Next point please
Fair enough (not everyone does.)
Okay so then you understand that the deficit spend becomes a private sector surplus?
How else do you think money enters the economy if not through deficit spending?
The opposite of this is contraction and austerity. You see?
So,
Liz Truss, then?
Ask again in 6 months. How can anyone judge based on two days in charge and one policy announcement.
So,
Liz Truss, then
To be fair Cougar how is this not linked to Truss's plans to spend?
I'm only getting away from it when people have a ridiculous dig.
I’d nationalise everything to do with energy.
I completely agree but neoliberal parties aren't going for this currently are they?
I worked all thru it
I know many folk who got nothing or a measly 20 quid on top of starvation level benefits when their job disappeared
As ever. Furlogh money went disproportionately into the pockets of the well off
Again - I sympathise. It wasn't because they couldn't do it. Tories chose not to but a lot of people did get help using the mechanisms we discuss.
Yes. Disproportionately to the well off
rone
Full Member
We all understand the concept of deficit, and that we spend more than we tax. Next point pleaseFair enough (not everyone does.)
Okay so then you understand that the deficit spend becomes a private sector surplus?
How else do you think money enters the economy if not through deficit spending?
The opposite of this is contraction and austerity. You see?
Yeah, I get it, but the whole thing is broken if it isn't got back, which is clearly what truss is intending here. It's just a money transfer to already rich companies.
rone
Full Member
I’d nationalise everything to do with energy.I completely agree but neoliberal parties aren’t going for this currently are they?
If enough people woke up to the fact and demanded it, it's not beyond possibility.
I thought that even Tory voters had woken up to this fact?
Labour have currently moved into the opposite direction and recently ruled out nationalisation of energy. In contrast to their previous position.
Starmer claims that the pandemic has "changed everything" and the nationalisation which he previously envisaged is no longer affordable.
Yeah, I get it, but the whole thing is broken if it isn’t got back, which is clearly what truss is intending here. It’s just a money transfer to already rich companies which is no use to you or I.
But the major problem we have currently is paying people's bills. Otherwise everything is screwed.
Blame the system in the first place for allowing them to get to that point.
It’s just a money transfer to already rich companies.
And don’t forget that she’s about to cut corporation tax for them too
Ker-****ing-ching!
It really is win/win/win for the oil and gas firms
And removing barriers to them fracking and “accelerating” North Sea extraction, while promising to put more barriers in the way of solar and onshore wind. Let the planet burn. But hey, she’s spending lots of money and letting her backers keep it, proving that’s always possible, so all’s good.
rone
Full Member
Yeah, I get it, but the whole thing is broken if it isn’t got back, which is clearly what truss is intending here. It’s just a money transfer to already rich companies which is no use to you or I.But the major problem we have currently is paying people’s bills. Otherwise everything is screwed.
Blame the system in the first place for allowing them to get to that point.
I'm not against it to cover the current crisis. I can just see what Truss is doing, so her policy needs heavily criticised. It's not even hidden, it's an open money transfer. It's wild economics. Meanwhile tax rates are going to get cut too at the upper end. Utterly batshit.
Yep, spend to “keep the lights on”, but tax more of it back from the companies that will make huge profits from that spend, not less. There is no reason not to do so. Unless you are personally ideologically bound to the fossil fuel companies by money, and so is your party.
Blame the system in the first place for allowing them to get to that point
I thought it was gob-smacking listening to her blaming the mess we’re in now on the failure of regulation of energy firms and the complete failure of government energy policy and lack of planning
Like she was talking about a previous administration from a different party, she had absolutely nothing to do with, instead of having been a minister in that very government for over a decade and being personally responsible for all that
She’s harder-faced than Boris
And don’t forget that she’s about to cut corporation tax for them too
Ker-****ing-ching!
Is she?
Tories were originally cutting corp tax a few years ago then abandonded it. Isn't she just not doing the April rise?
I hope not for small companies.
I pay 19% Corp tax, 8% Dividend tax and a bit of PAYE, NI etc.
It's also going to be a tool for Truss to start enacting their small government policies. Opps canny pay for that, canny pay for that, remember we paid for your energy bills...
Yeah Liz, we mind very well.
My word, that look into the camera at the end of her announcement about the Queen a few minutes ago... that will haunt me.
Reminded me of The Evil Dead.
"I'll eat you soul, I'll eat you soul."
Sorry, low brow I know but it genuinely came straight to mind as I watched.
Awful speech
Well after today's historic announcement I am fairly certain that the next opinion poll will show a huge surge in support for the government. Price cap policies won't figure.
Best start to her PMship she could have imagined. Political embargo for 10 days.
the next opinion poll will show a huge surge in support for the government
You’d think so. Will be Starmer’s fault though. [ joke ]
The truth is, I’m not sure. Johnson could have got a three month bounce out of this situation early in his premiership, before more people had seen through him. I don’t think Truss can do the same at this point, I just don’t see the public warming to her in the same way, even if there is a non-political nation wide event for her to try and ride. She doesn’t have the certain “it” to make the connection with enough people.
Best start to her PMship she could have imagined. Political embargo for 10 days.
She is probably regretting ruling out a snap election.
As ever. Furlogh money went disproportionately into the pockets of the well off
I'm not letting that pass, what utter horseshit. The well off if they did benefit from furlough had it capped, the less well off got 80% of their normal income, higher earners got a lot less than their normal take home. The least well off didnt see any difference as they are by definition not working and fully dependant on benefits (which actually went up slightly).
The welfare state is supposed to be there for everyone, except in reality if you are a higher earner in which case if you lose your income you're on your own and no one cares, the fact you've paid in significant more in tax over the years is irrelevant.
Liz Truss reveals campaign donation of £100,000 from wife of ex-BP executive
Contributions were disclosed minutes before the new PM announced details of her plan to tackle rising energy bills
the less well off got 80% of their normal income...
... The least well off didnt see any difference as they are by definition not working
Are you not familiar with the term "working poor"?
Have you ever considered why we need Working Tax Credits?
For a lot of people that 20% was a significant amount.
The welfare state is supposed to be there for everyone, except in reality if you are a higher earner in which case if you lose your income you’re on your own and no one cares, the fact you’ve paid in significant more in tax over the years is irrelevant.
If you lose your income even if you are low earner there's no safety net and no-one cares. no-one is living a comfortable life on broo money with some jobsworth up their arse every couple of weeks.
rone - re corp tax; my understanding is same as yours - there is no cut, just a decision to withdraw a proposed increase.
..
Oil extraction companies pay a higher ring fence rate of corporation tax so the government should see a good chunk of the loaned funds back.
