[Closed] Libor trader Jailed

So if you take all the crooked bankers, then you divide the prison time handed out, on average they'll have copped for a few seconds each?

I doubt anyone's even remotely bricking it

Aye true Binners but you have to start somewhere.

At least he didn't use the Alzheimer's defence.

I just wonder what the poor bastard did to end up as the fall guy for an entire institutionally corrupt industry?

Must have majorly pissed somebody important off to be the one poor mug to end up the wrong side of the 'all bankers operate with government-sanctioned impunity' clause

14yrs, long time to loose your liberty innit.. 😕

Just all these bankers that missold PPI, hedge fund traders that caused the crash, mortgage lenders etc.....

14yrs, long time to loose your liberty innit.

He's hardly going to be in with the nonces in Strangeways, is he? He'll do 7 years in some category D holiday camp, 4 of which probably on license, on a tag at home, where he can write his book, and discover ****ing God, like the rest of the usual suspects....

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Do you reckon they'll be going after his assets,acquired through his criminal activity, like they do with drug dealers and armed robbers. Hmmmmmm..... I wonder.....?

About bloody time.

14 years sounds about right considering the size of the market.

like the rest of the usual suspects....

He's Keyser Söze?

that caused the crash

No really!!

Wow, that is more than expected - I do think that there will be others bricking it. Including some right at the top.

Blimey that's 2x Leesons sentence,

I wonder if he's the nominated fall guy thrown to the Lions so the big boys can rest easy.

He put in a guilty plea to prevent being extradited to the states where they actually take this stuff seriously, and he would have got a hell of a lot more.

He claims he was doing it in the full knowledge of his senior managers, who were fully complicit in it. Lets see if any of those end up in a courtroom eh?

Its not like its the kind of thing you can do on your own, is it?

bikebouy - Member

14yrs, long time to loose your liborty innit..

Whilst I welcome serious sentencing does this mean this hasn't been dealt with using the American 'FIFA' style approach of starting with the smaller fry to get the bigger fish in senior management positions who must have known this was going on. Or is that an unrealistic expectation?

[i]I wonder if he's the nominated fall guy thrown to the Lions so the big boys can rest easy. [/i]

I reckon he's the first of a number of fall guys..

But none of them will be anything other than the 'troops'.

He claims he was doing it in the full knowledge of his senior managers, who were fully complicit in it. Lets see if any of those end up in a courtroom eh?

You have to remember these are the best of the best, the brightest and best educated the country has to offer, the masters of the universe. That is why they earn so much money and we should all be grateful that they are so successful. There is no way these intellectual colossus's would be confused and surprised by the dealings of their juniors.... is there?

my mangers knew, my manager's manager knew. In some cases the CEO was aware of it

Tom Hayes

Sounds very much like Barings to me. Could be wrong though!

I reckon he's the first of a number of fall guys..

But none of them will be anything other than the 'troops'.

The terminology really winds me up. Its PPI 'mis-selling', this is Libor 'manipulation'. Its ****ing fraud! Pure and simple! On an industrial scale! And does anyone think that they've actually stopped it? That the culture within these hallowed institutions has changed one little bit?

I wish they'd just call it what it is! It seems like we can't possibly offend the delicate sensibilities of the bunch of institutionally protected shysters that constitute the City, by referring to them as what they actually are: a bunch of fraudsters and crooks!

I wonder how much of the sentence will be cut on appeal, and will it even make the news then?

14 years is a long time and probably longer than what he would have got if he plea bargained in the US. The NatWest three were threatened with charges which involved prison time of 35 years but after plea bargain this was reduced to 37 [u]months[/u].

IIRC 15 years was the minimum tariff for murder before parole could be considered.

But none of them will be anything other than the 'troops'.

Cant't let it go too far up the hierarchy or we'll start running into the major party donors.

14 years is a big old whack for any fraud.

From the BBC "His wife noted down the verdicts as they were read out." you'd have thought after a couple she'd have realised it was going to be quite easy to remember them all and stopped noting.

These guys are not the "troops", they may not be sat on the top of the pile, but they are a a hell of a lot further from being crushed at the bottom of the pile.

definitely just a fall guy, thrown to the lions to protect the chiefs.

[url= http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2015/07/libor-historys-largest-financial-crime-that-the-wsj-and-nyt-would-like-you-to-forget.html#more-9571 ]New Economic Perspectives Article[/url]

He's hardly going to be in with the nonces in Strangeways, is he? He'll do 7 years in some category D holiday camp, 4 of which probably on license, on a tag at home

Yeah, that sounds lovely, no sort of punishment at all. No hardship whatsoever. Scott free really.

EDIT UNEDITED: Tried a different browser, seems it [b]was[/b] just me..

How does his crime warrant 14 years by comparison to rape?

14 years is too long. I would say 5 - 10 years and confiscation of all wealth accumulated during his spreed would be better.

It looks like physical crime warrant less.

Rape and Sexual Offences
Chapter 19: Sentencing

Starting Points

Single offence of rape by single offender:
5 years custody - victim 16 or over
8 years custody - victim 13 or over but under 16
10 years custody - victim under 13

Rape accompanied by aggravating factor:
8 years custody - victim 16 or over
10 years custody- victim aged 13 or over but under 16
13 years custody - victim under 13

Repeated Rape of same victim by single offender or rape involving multiple victims:
15 years custody

[url= http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/sentencing/ ]Ref: CPS[/url]

I think that what happens next will show exactly how corrupt the financial, judicial and political worlds are in the UK.

If he's the only one who is sent to prison it shows that there is a lot of corruption, if he's the first of many then it's not much different.

He was unfortunate enough to get 14 years under the wearily familiar 'let's find a scapegoat and make it look like we're actually doing something' rule

I think that what happens next will show exactly how corrupt the financial, judicial and political worlds are in the UK.

School ties and all that.

How does his crime warrant 14 years by comparison to rape?

14 years is too long. I would say 5 - 10 years and confiscation of all wealth accumulated during his spreed would be better.

It looks like physical crime warrant less.

Rape and Sexual Offences
Chapter 19: Sentencing

Starting Points

Single offence of rape by single offender:
5 years custody - victim 16 or over
8 years custody - victim 13 or over but under 16
10 years custody - victim under 13

Rape accompanied by aggravating factor:
8 years custody - victim 16 or over
10 years custody- victim aged 13 or over but under 16
13 years custody - victim under 13

Repeated Rape of same victim by single offender or rape involving multiple victims:
15 years custody

Ref: CPS

I'd say there was a damn good case to up the sentences of rapists rather than reduce the sentences of fraudsters.

Wonder if he'll get POCA'd.

Well, not that you'd be any less happy, there are a host of new regulations that mean not only the "boy on the desk" but those above, sideways and in some cases below will all be complicit in the crime.

Only just being brought in over here, but it's on its way.

Still think 14yrs is a lot. Even if he gets 7yrs in and 3yrs tagged thats one helluva lot of time behind bars and a lot loosing your liberty.

You may think it's too lenient..

I think its a lot.

And..

Well the guy can't be tried as above because the law wasn't in at the time of the incident.

And...

I'm not condoning his actions.

14 years seems far far to long. Has it actually been proved that what he did caused actual material damage. I agree it's fraud and a crime but 14 years. He would have probably got less if be our purposely ran over a cyclist and killed them. Also why 7 yrs in prison. He is not a threat to society. It's like the phone hacking he will be the fall guy as the people higher up the ladder will get away with it. Rebecca Brooks and Andy Coulson not knowing about phone hacking yer right. If not they must be flaming idiots. Obvious to anyone reading their papers that the only way to have got a story was by bugging or phone hacking. The establishment elite will close ranks and protect themselves. Harsh sentence as they can't let the plebs get out of hand. Like all the sentences after the riots a few years back. Redicously harsh and over the top as the masses can't rock the block. Didn't some bloke get 3yrs for stealing a bottle of water!

Will be fascinating to see what comes of the historical sex abuse enquiry and how the establishment deals with that.

14 yrs aint for one charge. He got found guilty on a number of charges and some sentences are running consecutively

Also why 7 yrs in prison. He is not a threat to society

Removal of a threat is only one element, along with rehabilitation and deterrence there's also that old chestnut, punishment. Whatever you think about the harshness or otherwise of his sentence, it'll be based on what was on the statute when the offence was committed.

He was not running a time share scam, he was manipulating the libor rate, something which effects TRILLIONS of pounds of financial products. Not billions, trillions........

Whilst I agree, it's amazingly harsh he has been singled out, I think it's pretty fair sentence considering the scale of what he was up to.

Bernie Madoff got over a hundred years IIRC and you think a guy that fixes the libor rate is being treated harshly by getting fourteen?

If a load of others don't go jail as well though, it will be a complete shambles.

Also why 7 yrs in prison. He is not a threat to society

On the contrary, corrupt bankers and traders are some of the biggest threats to society. It just so happens that there are a lot of them and the guy has been singled out.

Bazz - Member
I'd say there was a damn good case to up the sentences of rapists rather than reduce the sentences of fraudsters.

Yes, but at the moment the sentence by comparison looks so stooopid.

kudos100 - Member

He was not running a time share scam, he was manipulating the libor rate, something which effects TRILLIONS of pounds of financial products. Not billions, trillions........

Yes, but there should be checks in place but somehow that is missing. In order to manage such manipulation requires a lot of work so the chain of command should be penalised as well coz they "kept" a blind eye.

Woody - I just made the same comparison myself. It's phone hacking all over again.

The idea that the people at the top didn't know what was going on is so completely preposterous, that it's laughable they even tried to raise it as a credible defence. But they got away with it, while throwing some underlings to the wolves.

The same will happen here. Those with the fancy titles, and obscene salaries, will keep making their party donations, and carry on effectively doing this....

With about as much credibility.

Business as usual it is then Eh?

His highest sentence was 9.5 years . He was a main player ringleader of others made substantial gains so the sentence is not out of the ordinary. He not only gets no credit for pleading guilty but will have upped his tariff by admiring guilt then withdrawing cooperation and trying to wriggle out of it .
13 more to come at least.
Chew the rape guidelines you quote are out of date current ones ate significantly harsher as is current sentencing generally.

crankboy - Member
Chew the rape guidelines you quote are out of date current ones ate significantly harsher as is current sentencing generally.

You mean this one?

[url= http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/s1_rape/index.html ]Date Updated: January 2012 (Commencement Date: 01/05/2004)[/url]

Type/nature of activity: Rape accompanied by any one of the following: abduction or detention; offender aware that he is suffering from a sexually transmitted infection; more than one offender acting together; abuse of trust; offence motivated by prejudice (race, religion, sexual orientation, physical disability); sustained attack

Starting points: 13 years custody if the victim is under 13
Sentencing ranges: 11 - 17 years custody
Starting points: 10 years custody if the victim is a child aged 13 or over but under 16
Sentencing ranges: 8 - 13 years custody
Starting points: 8 years custody if the victim is 16 or over
Sentencing ranges: 6 - 11 years custody

Type/nature of activity: Single offence of rape by single offender

Starting points: 10 years custody if the victim is under 13
Sentencing ranges: 8 - 13 years custody
Starting points: 8 years custody if the victim is 13 or over but under 16
Sentencing ranges: 6 - 11 years custody
Starting points: 5 years custody if the victim is 16 or over
Sentencing ranges: 4 - 8 years custody

Nope.

crankboy - Member

Nope.

Website link?

For punishment sake!

🙄