I carry a Harpoon in my car. However one look at me and the Police realise I'm Japanese so let me on my way 😀 (ah soo)
Out of interest crankboy, how many times have you seen people prosecuted for having one when cycling, camping or similar, or does it tend to be people who have them for no apparent reason in less outdoorsy situations for want of a better phrase?
An all this hassle because testosterone filled knobjockeys join gangs and feel the need to prove themselves... When I was a lad we all had combat knives, we all thought we were Rambo and spent the day in the woods trying to throw them into trees 🙂
I bet none.
thegreatape in terms of cycling off road i've never seen a case .But i have seen a mountain biker arrested after a row with a landowner and had he had a multi tool with knife then that would have been an extra charge. I have seen a fair number of legitimate users arrested and sign disclaimers giving up the knife and accept cautions for the offense. I get about two tradesmen a year taken to court with the "i forgot it was in my pocket/bag i use it for work" line (not a defense in law if you forget you have it.) , and I can remember one camper with a lock knife who took a caution after 15 hours in custody.
My concern is the risk if found with a lock knife is quite bad even if you are cautioned that can come back to haunt you, but the guideline sentence is custody and the legal burden is on you to prove a legitimate reason for possession .
Why run the risk of that hassle for a blade on a tool when any number of tools will do the job without the locking blade. .
Is the tiddly little (but still rather useful) locking, serrated blade on my Topeak Alien counted as an offensive weapon then? It's got to be all of 35mm long!
hopefully the larger of my 2 Opinel's either around the tool box or in the cooking box in the van is safe probably wont take it on the plane though
Ambrose no it's a bladed article but the penalty if caught and you can't prove a lawful excuse is the same as for an offensive weapon.
I'm hoping then that as it lives in my bike bag it should be OK. Ta for that.
So essentially this is another ****ing stupid law that affects a large number of legitimate users in order to stop criminals from carrying offensive weapons.
I wonder how many gang members have stopped carrying cos it's against the law?
dangerousbeans - Member
...I wonder how many gang members have stopped carrying cos it's against the law?
Probably the same number as deterred by gun laws...
ie none
Why run the risk of that hassle for a blade on a tool when any number of tools will do the job without the locking blade. .
why have to carry a bunch of different tools to do the job of a perfectly good single tool, just because it's been specifically designed to avoid serious personal injury? In many cases a knife is the best possible tool. To cut zipties you'd have to carry wire snips or scissors, to cut the odd overhanging blackthorn branch or bramble a pair of secateurs, to open a lot of modern packaging you absolutely have to have a knife or a very strong pair of scissors, and I have bought bike bits while out that I couldn't have opened without a knife, and having had a Swiss Army knife snap shut on my fingers in use I'm ****ed if I'll allow it to happen again. My little utility knife has been used for all those examples above when out on rides and has been invaluable. It's also regularly called on at work for cutting up heavy cardboard and zipties. It's possibly the single most versatile tool I own, and I'm not going to stop carrying it now. I've carried a knife of one sort or another for forty-odd years, even to school, and never had hastle about it.
I carry a mini-tool, chain splitter and Gerber multitool pliers in my Camelbak at all times and have used all three over the years, including the knife.
Technically the knife is a weapon, but then so is almost anything if used in a offensive way.
Just another occasion when I'll ignore the law.
So overall Crankboy out of the millions who carry one there's a hadnful who get end up with any legal problems because of it.
I carry mine in my camelbak and its been very useful on a few occassions (particularly the pliers) hadnt realised i could potentially be breaking the law.
A couple of years ago there was a hiker in the US who somehow got trapped under a boulder and had to cut his arm off to get free. So a leatherman could be useful in such a situation not just with bike repairs 😀
I was carrying my leatherman (blast with locking blade) on my belt (in its pouch) yesterday whilst working with a load of coppers (looked at a suspicious hole in the ground which turned out to be ...er... a hole in the ground!)
Not a flicker from the bobbies and no questions about it. Don't think they are really that bothered about a leatherman - anyone going to the trouble of paying that much for a leatherman is most likely to have a good reason for carrying the thing.
I suspect its the people carrying a stanley knife or a kitchen knife* on the streets that they tend to be a tad more concerned about.
*[i]unless of course you're a cheese eating picnic type - but they're gona breathalyse you later anyway as whats the point of the cheese without the red wine?[/i]
Hang on just a thought.... as far as I know this is a none issue because:
The police need a search warrant to search you beyond a "weapons frisk" during a stop? The stop should only be performed if they have good reason to believe you are in the act of carrying out an criminal offence or on your way to do so (they need just cause though) and having a past criminal record or because they don't like bikers are not just causes.
During a stop:
They can frisk the outside of your clothing but not inside anything. If they feel something they believe to be a weapon they can ask you to remove it to look but they can't search for anything else or remove anything else from your pockets. They can't search inisde any bags etc. only outer clothing.
Also if I remember rightly even if you are arrested they can't ask you to remove any clothing (beyond an outer coat, gloves, scarf or hat) especially if a person of the opposite sex is present and they then must do the search "out of public view"
Beyond this they can only ask your permission to search you/your possessions and it is a voluntary thing and they have to say what they are looking for and you can legally say NO. If you say NO they can't do anything unless they arrest you for a legitimate reason - which you can then sue them for wrongful arrest if they don't prove their reason to be valid.
Anything else is an illegal search and any evidence found is inadmissible in any case they try to bring (and again you can sue them for breach of your civil rights in carrying out an illegal search)
The only exception to this is if they can justifiable claim you are in the act of preparing or carrying out terrorism in which case they can almost do what they like (yeah its crap). Its a really dodgy loophole as I have had police claim that taking a photo of a building (and definately of a police officer) is covered under this, (it's not) and that they have the right to make me show them the photo (they don't). If they foricbly remove the camera from you they are assaulting you / stealing from you and if they delete anything from the card then they are committing criminal damage (my photos are art works and therefore valuable). Its a big issue with photographers at the moment and its not easy to argue with a bobby in such situations especially as the law is intentionally very vague.
Anyway back to the subject....
So
1. carry your leatherman deep in your backpack.
2. have a good reason for carrying it.
3. ALWAYS say no to a request from a police officer to search your bag etc.
4. Don't do anything worth being arrested for.
And you'll have no issues with the leatherman and the police.
But if your foolish enough to carry it in an airport in your hand luggage then that's a different matter.
I was foolish enough to have my Leatherman in my hand luggage when I boarded a plane, but nothing was said to me.
-It was an internal flight in Argentina though...
On our return to Europe we had our
[img] 
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(bought at the Buenos Aires Duty Free) confiscated though 😆
Right this is getting right on my boobies. Why is it people insist on quoting stuff they heard in the pub as law. The police do NOT need a warrant to search someone in a public place prior to arrest. They need reasonable grounds to suspect you may be carrying something illegal depending on the legislation in question. For example S.1 Police & Criminal Evidence Act gives police the power to search for stolen items, items used for going equipped to steal or cheat (fraud related stuff like blank phone cards or lebanese loops), items used to commit criminal damage or for offensive weapons including knives. There is also legislation conveying powers of search for firearms, drugs and terrorist materials. There is NO such thing as a voluntary police search of an individual.
In my direct experience the CPS are INCREDIBLY unlikely to prosecute a mountain biker who has a leatherman in his pack as long as they give a valid reason for having it. For example cutting down inner tubes etc. Any totally innocent campers or tradesmen who have taken a police caution for posession of a lockable blade are likely to have been doing something they shouldnt have with it, recieved very poor legal advice, or said something silly during the interview. The courts, police and caselaw tends to take a farily sensible view of the law in my experience. Whatever the Daily Mail or Internet might have you believe.
