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The context you missed Rob Dixon
Maybe, just maybe this might be the start of something positive.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28939350
This seems to have slipped under the radar somewhat but I have been following this since it was announced last week, so fingers crossed. I do wonder why we haven't heard any comments from any of our glorious political leaders?
Every long standing Labour member I know likes Corbyn, is glad he took over and thinks its the “Blairite” Labour MPs trying to get rid of him who are **** up the Labour Party.
Yep, include me in that as that is my view on it. I like what he stands for and what he has been involved in over the years but he does need to move aside and let a front man take over who can take advantage of the tory mess and spin stuff up a bit to get the people that should be voting labour and would do better under a labour government to actually realise it. No easier time to do that than at the moment.
No easier time to do that than at the moment.
Not really. I'm pretty sure the plan is for him to complete party reforms and win an election in order to prove that the policies have a mandate. In this way he can step aside safe in the knowledge that the party will once again be a party of the left for the forseeable future. If he leaves now, it will revert very quickly back to the centrist neoliberal tory-lite party of the Blair years.
I’m assuming you are referring to Israel but last time I checked being born on Britain doesn’t automatically make anyone an Israeli cheerleader, likewise being born a Jew here (or anywhere else for that matter ). In further breaking news, not all Jews support Israel either.
We're not talking about British Jews, we're talking about Jonathan Sacks, who has form as an apologist for the excesses of the Israeli government.
Maybe the start of something positive
Or not
Maybe the start of something positive
Or not
Trump is an utter weapons grade ****. Thankfully your linked article is covering a completely different agreement, so hopefully the 2 aren't mutually linked or dependent.
The proposed ceasefire in the BBC article is a positive step and it would be criminal to not hope it is the start of a lasting ceasefire in the region that could possibly lead to a peaceful solution. After all that's what we all want isn't it?
I do find it very odd that neither May nor Corbyn have made a statement on a possible ceasefire but the UN's Ban Ki-moon makes a very good point...
But in a statement via his spokesman, Mr Ban warned that "any peace effort that does not tackle the root causes of the crisis will do little more than set the stage for the next cycle of violence".
STFU - the rallying call with the greatest momentum in modern politics.
he does need to move aside and let a front man take over who can take advantage of the tory mess
No doubt that's the plan ASAP and as after the leadership election rule changes they made in April (IIRC) Corbyn can happily step aside in the safe knowledge his successor will be from his wing of the party.
I suspect the hold up is identifying a suitable successor. Finding an MP from his wing of the party with leadership qualities and no history of saying/doing metal things is nigh on impossible. I get the feeling their Wing of the parliamentary party is pretty much Diane, John, Jeremy and Dennis. They need someone at least 30 years younger who hasn't got a lifetime of saying stupid things behind them.
So unless someone can name an appropriate Momentum friendly MP who could take over I'd assume Corbyn's stuck in the job until suitable candidates are brought in as new MPs which really means after the next election, and that assumes the next election is a good few years time - it could be called next week in which case would there be time for deselections and to line the right candidates up? (...and all this raises the interesting question, are there *any* youngish "70's style militant" types who are also articulate and media savvy? It could be like finding an intelligent, articulate flat earther - there might not be *any* suitable candidates to parachute into safe seats for the top job.)
But yeah, 100pc agree with your point, Corbyn's job is done and Momentum would happily let him off the hook as soon as a suitable candidate came up. Nobody would be more relieved to be gone than Corbyn.
That BBC story is 4 years old
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That BBC story is 4 years old
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My bad, not sure what happened there.
Labour need to find someone who isn't an MP yet but has all the qualities to get people behind them, spin stuff up against tories etc,. then get them into a safe seat. They really need to get a lot better at playing the politics game.
Just don't pick an orange coloured 'businessman' whatever you do.
No doubt that’s the plan ASAP and as after the leadership election rule changes they made in April (IIRC) Corbyn can happily step aside in the safe knowledge his successor will be from his wing of the party.
The “democracy review” carried out by Katy Clark, Jeremy Corbyn’s former political secretary, is expected to propose three changes to Labour Party rules:
• Labour leaders on local councils to be elected by local party members rather than councillors
• Candidates for party leader to need nominations from 5 per cent of Labour MPs rather than 10 per cent
• The representative of Labour MEPs on the party’s national executive to be abolished, before Brexit in March
Imagine the damn nerve, insisting leaders are elected by party members as opposed to those already at the trough.
I take it you're not from Glasgow then? Could have done with those changes a couple of decades ago.
Better at playing the politics game? Despite Corbyn look at their share of the vote and compare to previous Labour leaders, look at their share of the growing demographics segments, look at how they understand and use social media effectively,,look at how ruthlessly they crush debate and look at their brilliant strategy for Brexit. Theirs delivers positive result.
Its the other parties not labour who need to know how to play the game. Labours are up there with the very worst of them. The Tories are miles behind
Despite Corbyn? Seriously?
No doubt that’s the plan ASAP and as after the leadership election rule changes they made in April (IIRC) Corbyn can happily step aside in the safe knowledge his successor will be from his wing of the party.
Imagine the damn nerve, insisting leaders are elected by party members as opposed to those already at the trough.
As you can see, I made no comment on the merit of the changes, and certainly didn't suggest that they were undemocratic.
How about despite the increasingly desperate attempts by the RW media to discredit him with more and more lame stories which do nothing more than expose how scared they are of him.
They really need to get a lot better at playing the politics game.
You have got to be kidding, they've just completely taken over one of the two biggest UK Political parties and within 2 years ensured it will never change back! I'd like a single example of any person or organisation in UK History who has played the politics game better than Momentum.
Entryism has *never* been made to work this well before. Have a look at previous attempts, including Militant who had a pretty good stab at it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entryism#Trotsk y's_%22French_Turn%22
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">(...and this is interesting too: </span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> http://www.marxist.net/openturn/historic/index.html)</span>
They can't replace Corbyn, no-one else has been on the right side of history on every international issue
If they do at least we know it won't be John Woodcock and Frank Field, my money is on Chris Williamson
I'd never heard of him but judging by his Wikipedia page Williamson should be acceptable to Momentum. However his seat isn't exactly safe. Quite a handicap, unless they just Parachute him elsewhere.
outofbreath - did you not follow politics few decades ago? Momentum is one of many internal labour organisations and no more effective than most. Labour has not stitched things up for the left wing - they have reinstated and improved its internal democracy. Labour used to be a bottom up organisation. Blair changed that and moved it a long way to the right. What labour propose now is firmly in the democratic socialist european mainstream and is still to the right of where it was years back. Nothing corbyn wants to do would raise eyebrows in ost european countries.
Frank Feild anyone? Been in the wrong party for years.
Nothing corbyn wants to do would raise eyebrows in ost european countries.
I think leaving the EU would raise eyebrows in almost every European country.
Momentum is one of many internal labour organisations and no more effective than most.
Momentum has been 100pc effective in achieving an epic result. Maybe all the other organisations have also been 100pc effective at achieving an epic result.
Frank Feild anyone? Been in the wrong party for years.
In that case Corbyn shouldn't be Leader.
Spent the weekend with the in-laws in Wallasey
We only talked about politics once & Frank field is seen as a Tory enabler & friend of rees-mogg, his actions supporting the Tories have upset them, I expect it's a sentiment shared elsewhere
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/asked-merseyside-labour-mp-voted-14923828
Can we just imagine the reaction if Corbyn had fluffed his lines about his objections to apartheid, overseen the near deportation of British citizens, been unable to speak to a room full of people or paid off a raging homophobe and ethical dinosaur in the DUP?
FIeld has has been in the wrong party, true - he is anti bullying. Militant failed to "get him" before but Momentum finished the job now. Revengeful bullying and intimidation has a rich history (in parts of) the party.
"STFU" or we'll get you
Yes they have done good job with social media, getting new interest etc,. but they have also lost a lot of people who would be better off with a Labour government. Go and talk to the average voter who should be voting Labour and you will not get a positive view of Corbyn.
Whereas a figure at the front that people like and who was spinning it up with "Make Britain great again" type stuff would get them more. Nothing needs to change underneath.
Yep, but he didn’t consign this country to economic harm by trying to cement his own position in his own party by asking a stupid question to a stupid electorate and ballsing it up. So ho hum.
I will vote for Corbyn if he is in charge of the Labour Party because that is how I can most hurt the Tories. I will vote for Mr Claypole from rent-a-ghost if he’s running the Labour party as that is how I can most hurt the Tories.
And I was a Tory voter until last time, so insert your own nose-thumbing gif here if you like. I am not the only one.
Field was facing the strong possibility of deselection, wasn't he? If you're not going to be an MP after the next election anyhow, why not have a flounce out of the party at the time of maximum impact?
It's hard not to be cynical about any of these principled resignations.
He should have learnt from the Tory mega flouncers and got a photographer to capture the moment.
Corbyn fluffs his lines constantly on the various anti semitism stories, who did he meet where stories, anti NATO stories. The only places he puts in a relaxed performance is Press TV and Russia Today
Jennifer Williams at the MEN is doing a good job at exposing the current state of the takeover in Manchester
lame stories which do nothing more than expose how scared they are of him
Sadly I think it has far more of an impact than you give it credit for, far too many people just believe what they read in the paper and vote based on that.
Field was facing the strong possibility of deselection, wasn’t he?
Google says yes, ironically over the EU, an issue where he is completely in tune with his constituents and the Labour leadership. Funny old world:
He said that during his 39 years as an MP he had “always voted to free our country from the tightening stranglehold of the EU” on behalf of working-class Labour voters and that it was important to do so now.
“For most, if not all, of those votes I did so alongside Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell,” he said “It would have been a betrayal of the principles I have held for my entire political life, had I voted against the legislation two weeks ago.”
dannyh wrote:
I will vote for Corbyn if he is in charge of the Labour Party because that is how I can most hurt the Tories.
May's govt is on a cliff edge and could fall at any time. If an election were called tomorrow, wouldn't a vote for Labour put them into bat at a difficult time and hurt Labour? Agree that in the unlikely event this govt runs full term a Labour vote would hurt the Tories.
Jennifer Williams at the MEN is doing a good job at exposing the current state of the takeover in Manchester
Is it similar to the current problem the conservatives have with the right extremists infiltrating which has led to warnings being given by Central Office
Why wouldn’t you want Labour in at a difficult time. They are more pro Brexit, have a better plan and a more positive vision of what Brexit means. And a conviction leader.
Why wouldn’t it be great? Jezza the Brexit deliverer
ironically over the EU, an issue where he is completely in tune with his constituents
Only with 51% of them.
Voting to prop up May's government, just to push his eurosceptic obsession was a foolish thing do
Called conviction?
Voting to prop up May’s government, just to push his eurosceptic obsession was a foolish thing do
Not if, like me, you favour martinhutch's view that politicians nearing the end of their career sometimes like to be seen to resign on a point of principle rather than fade away in silence.
This way he's seen to be supporting his long held eurosceptic conviction which 51pc of his constituents and the the Labour leadership would agree with, and his actual resignation over anti-semitism is on another point of principle.
So whether you think he's genuine on both points or just cynically picking issues to resign over at the end of his political career he's played an absolute blinder. I can't see any sense in which anything he's done over these issues was foolish?
As a point of interest, according to wikipedia Field was one of the Labour MPs who originally nominated Corbyn.
As a point of interest, according to wikipedia Field was one of the Labour MPs who originally nominated Corbyn.
yep the blairites thought they could crush traditional labour by selecting a token left winger for the leadership election.
yep the blairites thought they could crush traditional labour by selecting a token left winger for the leadership election.
Cite, please.
AFAIK no Blairites were involved in the selection of Corbyn. According to McDonnell (who was there) the selection was made in a meeting with him, Corbyn, Abbott and others from their wing of the party. McDonnell didn't want to do it 'cos he'd already had a couple of goes (and had suffered a fairly recent heart attack), Abbot also felt she'd done her fair share. There was just a general feeling it was Corbyn's turn to be the token left winger candidate and he reluctantly accepted. Hard to imagine there was a plan to crush Corbyn's wing of Labour at all, given it had already been crushed. Corbyn/Skinner/Abbot/McDonnell are no spring chickens, it was by no means certain any of them would stand and I suspect none of them were anticipating remaining in Parliament for 2 whole terms which takes them all to around 80yo. If they wanted to crush Corbyn's wing of Labour all they had to do was keep them away from leadership elections for a few years.
Far from wanting to crush it, I think Labour were happy to give Corbyn's wing of the party a platform in total confidence that it had already been crushed. Doh!
Fields just miscalculated massively
ask a scouser what their political priorities are... dumping the EU or dumping a Tory government ......... & this is how the local press have been portraying his siding with the likes of rees-mogg
his vote on the brexit CU amendment wouldnt have stopped brexit, but it couldve brought down the government
Birkenheads also had a bigger than average swing back to remain https://www.bestforbritain.org/map
Why wouldn’t you want Labour in at a difficult time. They are more pro Brexit, have a better plan and a more positive vision of what Brexit means. And a conviction leader.
Why wouldn’t it be great? Jezza the Brexit deliverer
@thm
Yeah, but I'm not listening to 'experts'.
Corbyn terrifies the gammons and the spivs who want to profit personally from a hard brexit, so that's good enough for me. I think he terrifies you too. Even better.
Yadda, yadda, yadda, I hear the reply coming, but I ain't listening.
Irritating isn't it?
Actually I would probably more instinctively want to vote Lib-Dem, but they are still too tainted by the toxicity of coalition for a large enough number of people to vote for them. So, Jezza it is. Or Mr Claypole, or whoever. Just not your lot.
Is it the early 80's again? Certainly seems like it.
I just look on in despair as the Labour party decides that it's not going to waste its time with challenging the government or anything like that. Why bother when there's so much fun to be had in Peoples Front of Judea/Judean Peoples Front levels of internal feuding instead.
What a pile of naval-gazing, self-indulgent horse-shit.
To win a general election, they need to win over swing voters in marginal constituencies.
How do you think this he said/she said bollocks is playing out with them?
Are they looking like a government in waiting? Or just strikingly similar to the ineffectual, shambolic rabble that so effectively wrote themselves out of the political picture in the 80's? And against this lot, too. Who are a shambolic rabble themselves, but somewhat unbelievably, a more electable one.
Go Jezza!
I just look on in despair as the Labour party decides that it’s not going to waste its time with challenging the government or anything like that.
You seem to be very exercised about it for someone who isn't even a member of the Labour party.
Politicians dont terrify they merely disappoint