[Closed] Ken Livingstone steps in to calm antisemitism row in the Labour Party.

Subtly done DD]As noted the research shows right wing folk are also more stupid and this might be the reason why you are needing evidence here

Happy to help

http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

Polling data and social and political science research do show that prejudice is more common in those who hold right-wing ideals that those of other political persuasions,

hont and Hodson believe they have an answer to this, again one based on rigorous abundant evidence. Their theory is that right-wing ideologies attract people with lower mental abilities because they minimize the complexity of the world. Right-wing ideologies offer well-structured and ordered views of society, views that preserve traditions and norms, so they are especially attractive to those who are threatened by change and want to avoid uncertainty and ambiguity. Conversely, smart people are more capable of grasping a world of nuance, fluidity and relativity.
The empirical evidence supports this link, too. Low intelligence and “low effort thinking” are strongly linked to right-wing attitudes, including authoritarianism and conservative politics. And again, there appears to be a demonstrable causal link: Studies have found, for example, that children with poor mental skills grow up to be strongly right-wing adults.

and just for you from the DM - i wont put the link up

Right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low childhood intelligence tend to grow up to have racist and anti-gay views, says a controversial new study.
Conservative politics work almost as a 'gateway' into prejudice against others, say the Canadian academics.
The paper analysed large UK studies which compared childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood across more than 15,000 people

Clearly not all RW folk are racist or stupid but, clearly some are one , some are the other and some are both.

Its a fairly pointless side show here

We should oppose racism whether from the right or left and neither political affiliation tells you whether a person is racist or stupid.
However its more likely, if they are RW than if they are left wing

Its not hard to see why some folk are uncomfortable with this and it woudl be lazy, though amusing, to caricature all right wing folk as thick racists just as it is to suggest the left wing has an "endemic problem" with racism, Its more a right wing trait.

I've lost touch with this story for the past 24 hours or so - has Livingstone actually said anything anti-Semitic yet?

No he has just continued to be the same blunt "trolly" gobshite

I've lost touch with this story for the past 24 hours or so - has Livingstone actually said anything anti-Semitic yet?

I thought the story was that no one has actually said anything anti-semitic.....

Junky, one would have thought that, with your superior left wing intellect, you would have known about the risk of cherry picking research that supports your standpoint, and how that falls short of reflecting the totality of the evidence

You said 'on average' - a correct position would have been to reflect on the fact that there is 'some' evidence, but also contradictory. For example, http://www.jstor.org/stable/3791188?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

and how that falls short of reflecting the totality of the evidence

err, since when was one study of 99 people definite proof of anything?

Since when was any study 'definite proof of anything' ?

A bit like the studies which 'proved' Blacks and Jews were less intelligent...

(Another left wing superior intellect fail)

rone - Member

I know it's not subtle but I've heard no one talk of Livingstone's freedom of speech here like we all did when it came to Charlie Hebdo - which is all the debate centred on.

I said much the same thing then as now tbh. All arseholes. Nobody's obstructing Ken's freedom of speech btw, just his membership of a political party.

(and let's be honest, he's not been suspended for antisemitism. He's been suspended for being an arsehole.)

with your superior left wing intellect

You said 'on average' - a correct position would have been to reflect on the fact that there is 'some' evidence, but also contradictory

Again it does not mean every RW person is a stupid racist or that no left wing person is a stupid racist it just means that on average a racist is more likely to be stupid and right wing.
A quick glance at the openly racist parties across europe and whether they are right or left wing will answer that question- though of course you will find some left wing racists ones as you know what an average is now dont you 😉

Its not very controversial though it is very uncomfortable if you are a RW.

Its all a bit of a pointless side bar anyway and you will continue to do your thing on a thread despite the evidence. I am sure its because you are one of the bright one though 😛

to be very clear here I dont think you are either thick or racist and I am not even that convinced about how right wing you are. WHilst the evidence is largely true my tone is fundamentally tongue in cheek piss taking and I get why a RW person would argue otherwise.

I am sure its because you are one of the bright one though

That I very much doubt!

I thought the story was that no one has actually said anything anti-semitic.....

Someone better tell the Labour Party then because they are getting themselves into a bit of an unnecessary mess - the next mayor was pretty definitive too

Blimey NW if MPs are going to be suspended for being AHs there wont be many left

Lets hope they dont do it here as well or same outcome

A quick glance at the openly racist parties across europe and whether they are right or left wing will answer that question- though of course you will find some left wing racists ones as you know what an average is now dont you

It's a series of subjective measures - BNP policies, for example (as we've discussed in the past) certainly are not "right wing" from an economic standpoint, in fact to label them either left wing or right wing would be to identify a level of coherence to ideology that would not be truly representative of their policies, same applies to the inherent hypocrisy of UKIP policy. Of course, this is hardly enything new, National [u]socialist[/u] German workers party anyone?

teamhurtmore - Member

Blimey NW if MPs are going to be suspended for being AHs there wont be many left

I know! It's going to be great. It'll all be independents, greens and UKIP. Not because they're not arseholes, just because they've got nobody to suspend them.

The Labour Party absolutely has a problem with anti-senitism and Jews - its has totally confused the two. Its been rumbling along for a long time with Livingstone its highest profile "cheerleader", as I said under Corbyn its gone into overdrive as those who hold those feel empowere and even protected now by the party. Livingstone felt comfortable enough to make the deliberately offensive remarks as he knows the worst will be a suspension, he's confident he won't be expelled.

Corbyn has again kicked the issue into the long grass commissioning the third new investigation, why not just publish one of the first two ?

Quite ridiculous to suggest the Tories used Milliband's Jewishness agInst him, he's non practicing has has no real links with the community. His bacon sandwich photo op was to show the Labour voters he wasn't Jewish. He lost the election due to Labour's lack of economic credibility and looking incredibly weak under pressure from Sturgeon.

I thought terrorism and appalling May/Scottish election results would do for Corbyn, now I think his handling of Labour Party anti-semitism will finish him. This is assuming Kahn wins the Mayoral election, if he doesn't I think he'll be out over Labour snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

UKIP's economic policies are left of centre btw. Sooner or later the left is going to realise that having 70m Turkish people from a country where the average earnings are £7.5k able to compete for jobs in the UK is only going to further undermine working conditions and wages of their supporters and not the middle class Tories

"Everyone expects the Jews to be the only real Christians in this world. Other nations when they are defeated survive and recover but should Israel be defeated it would be destroyed. Had Nasser triumphed last June he would have wiped Israel off the map, and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews. No commitment to the Jews by any government, including our own, is worth the paper it is written on.

There is a cry of outrage all over the world when people die in Vietnam or when two Negroes are executed in Rhodesia. But when Hitler slaughtered Jews no one remonstrated with him. The Swedes, who are ready to break off diplomatic relations with America because of what we do in Vietnam, did not let out a peep when Hitler was slaughtering Jews.

They sent Hitler choice iron ore, and ball bearings, and serviced his troop trains to Norway." - Eric Hoffer

**** Livingstone.

More of the if you criticise Israel then you hate Jews

the real problem here is you cannot criticise Israel without being called a Jew hater.

In essence its easier to shout racist than defend what Israel does hence why we have to do this

You and others on here have historically called for a one state soloution, the last time the Jews lived under a single state in Palestine, they were being pogrommed by Arabs.

So a lot of people can be forgiven if they consider you a Jew hater.

Its been rumbling along for a long time with Livingstone its highest profile "cheerleader"

Indeed, Kens comments need to be seen in context:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/65426/the-letter-ed-miliband-jewish-labour-supporters

So a lot of people can be forgiven if they consider you a Jew hater.

There is an amazingly large hole in that argument.

His bacon sandwich photo op was to show the Labour voters he wasn't Jewish

bacon sandwich photo op was to show the Labour voters he wasn't Jewish

Of all the stupid things you've said - and heaven knows there have been enough of them - this may well be the most stupid. Congratulations.

Indeed for him to argue the labour party has a problem with jews and then say something like that shows all we need to know about the poster.

Mr Miliband’s battle to consume the greasy treat alarmed his media minders, who tried to stop photographers taking close-ups of butter oozing between his teeth

Jesus man you are so intent on getting at labour you will literally write anything no matter how daft or bigoted.

His bacon sandwich photo op was to show the Labour voters he wasn't Jewish.

That's brilliant, 😯

Planet Jamba is a fascinating place

What was Cameron trying to signify when he ****** that pig head then ?

So a lot of people can be forgiven if they consider you a Jew hater.

My argument is if you attack israel folk call you a jew hater and a racist. I am not sure how that cheap and inaccurate slur is meant to negate my argument that folk do this and they do it because its easier to do this than defend Israel.

the last time the Jews lived under a single state in Palestine, they were being pogrommed by Arabs.

the last time the ARABS lived under a single state in Israel, they were being pogrommed by JEWS

I guarantee had i written that I would be being shouted down for racism. This is the hair trigger folk have to criticism of israel where it always must just show racism. Its just bollocks.

As i have stated numerous times on here Mrs JY is a jew so the argument is spectacularly bollocks.

* for clarity I would not write that statement and nor have I called for a single state solution Israel has the right to exist it does not have the right to mistreat folk, illegally settle, do collective punishments, assassinations abroad,land grabs etc to achieve this goal.

Mrs JY is a jew

Obviously a self-hating Jew. Nearly the same thing as an anti-Semite.

It is but one of her endearing traits.

So Livingstone won't apologise (no surprise) despite being asked 16 times and even McDonald is begging him too ! He will defend himself by quoting a book written in 1993 by a Marxist which is sold and promoted by various Holocaust denying groups !!! Labour are in a very very deep hole here and Ken is furiously digging

Nah it's just a k-hole, he's dug himself in and effectively sidelined himself from politics , which is good news for Corbs as he ken has been a time bomb just waiting to go off for some time

jambalaya - Member

So Livingstone won't apologise (no surprise) despite being asked 16 times

I am disgusted. That is a whole entire [b]four[/b] times more than twelve times the Prime Minister sat there with his arms folded or swerved like a sixth form debating [s]sociopath[/s] champ and refused to apologise for calling mp's on the other side of the "Bomb Syria" debate/vote 'terrorist sympathisers'.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12029795/The-12-times-David-Cameron-was-asked-to-apologise-for-terrorist-sympathiser-comment.html ]Ranty bleeding heart lefty tabloid source.[/url] 😉

Happy to be with THM (for once!) in being unsure where he said anything antisemitic. Therefore clarity needed from team Jamba about what exactly it is he is busy not apologosing for.

Labour are in a very very deep hole here and [s]Ken[/s]jamba is furiously [s]digging[/s]masturbating

Again, what has he got to apologise for?

My own knowledge of Hitler's intentions pre "the time he went mad and started killing people" is woolly admittedly, but even if his facts were array or completely wrong - how is that anti-Semitic? To suspend someone there has to be a clear case to answer and members of both political parties are adamant that there is. However, they are remarkably vague when it comes to the simple question of what exactly did he do that was anti-Semitic.

All very odd....perhaps the Sunday papers might help and Marr has a clear agenda for a show?

What's the history between Khan and Livingston? The former seemed particularly dogmatic about what should happen.

Again, what has he got to apologise for?

Some of us thought the same when Boris mentioned that Obama was part Kenyan (statement of fact) however the same people now defending Ken were up in arms over it.

so the opening of the LBC interview

Michael Crick says: "Should you not now say I regret bringing Hitler into this?"

'cos its not allowed to mention him now apparently. Stalin ok, but avoid old Adolf?? Crock #1

3. Crick: "There are times in life when situations are so sensitive that you have to say 'I regret bringing Hitler into this'"

No really..

So the guilt is "insensitivity" - crock#2

4. Mellor: "This is such an easy step for you. You say you regret introducing Hitler - say you're sorry about Hitler and then we can move on, and those of us who admire you can get back into that role."

Please can I also have your autograph as I really do admire you honestly. And just a little sorry and we can forget all about it. Crock #3

How about the journo's, Jim MacD, Khan et all say sorry for falling victim to lazy slurs. Still Jim has done it with Bojo and Ken so he has form.

True ninfan as I have said before lazy slurs are very powerful political tools - they work, that's why they get used so often.

And Jimbo manages to cross the (usually vaguely political) divide on which one to use and use both!! Crock #4

I blame Benjamin Disraeli myself..

ninfan - Member

Some of us thought the same when Boris mentioned that Obama was part Kenyan (statement of fact) however the same people now defending Ken were up in arms over it.

Yeah, that's exactly what was happening there. Boris decided that Obama has an ancestral dislike of Britain because of his Kenyan background. He offered as his evidence Obama's removal of a bust of Winston Churchill from the Whitehouse, which inconveniently [i]never actually happened[/i]. And was slightly undermined by years of President Obama working with the UK, and by the fact that suggesting we should stay in the EU isn't in any way anti-British in the first bloomin place.

He wasn't criticised for saying Obama is part-kenyan, he was criticised for spinning up a political fantasy based around his ethnicity.

@THM, I think probably he should say he regrets bringing hitler into it- because if he doesn't regret it, he's a raving idiot. That's not to say it was antisemitic, but it was definitely bloody stupid. He could and probably should easily say "All that Hitler stuff, I was talking pish- read it in a book and thought it was true. So, sorry about that, now can we get back to the actual point?"

But at this point, he's obviously finished in the cabinet anyway, as he's proved such a liability, so maybe he's just decided to be hanged for the sheep.

Hmmm, I think the word racist cropped up a number of times...

If you can read that totally unambiguous statement of fact by the President of the United States, but are happy to disregard it in favour of the [b]incoherent racist ramblings [/b]of the Self-serving Mop then quite frankly your utterly hatstand foaming-at-the-mouth bonkers! simpke as that.

As one example...incoherent well yes, fair cop. Racist? Hmmm.....but that doesn't stop the card being played does it?

Surprised at how obtuse you are being TMH. Context is everything.

Two good opinion pieces from Nick Cohen and Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian recently with which I concur.

@ Junkyard 'my wife is a Jew' sits happily alongside 'some of my best friends are gay/black' as the crappest justification ever for what you often indulge in. The 'what' being perfectly explained by Freedland in the article mentioned above.

Context? Livingstone was embarrassing true and Labour are handling this badly. But that doesn't excuse the lazy slur...we still have yet to define anything that is anti-Semitic, Odd that...

Hence LBC have to start with silly comments about bringing up Hitler etc. Why? because like here no one has pinned Livingstone down on being anti-Semitic. They have had plenty of time...

"Again, what has he got to apologise for?"

For being an absolute **** bellend and throwing petrol on a fire with his stupid tenuous grasp of history (Hitler's beliefs) and politics (Zionism). It's time for him to piss off back to his newts.

Boris decided that Obama has an ancestral dislike of Britain because of his Kenyan background. He offered as his evidence Obama's removal of a bust of Winston Churchill from the Whitehouse, which inconveniently never actually happened.

He didn't do anything of the sort, he was merely referring to a story written by Tim Shipman in 2009 and the story was true and was confirmed by the White House after previously denying it. See [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9436526/White-House-admits-it-did-return-Winston-Churchill-bust-to-Britain.html ]here[/url] and if you prefer another source [url= http://http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-case-of-the-two-churchills ]here[/url]

EDIT: Walked past Seamus Milne this afternoon, he did look as if he was carrying the weight of the world, but the trains were busy.

"For being an absolute **** bellend and throwing petrol on a fire with his stupid tenuous grasp of history (Hitler's beliefs) and politics (Zionism). It's time for him to piss off back to his newts.

Well that's quite a precedent to set.....

The Labour Party absolutely has a problem with anti-senitism and Jews

Another made up #jamba-fact which you keep repeating without any actual evidence...

The Labour Party has something like 380k members and at the last count, only five alleged cases of anti-Semitic behaviour. And that's alleged, not yet proven....

https://electronicintifada.net/content/how-israel-lobby-manufactured-uk-labour-partys-anti-semitism-crisis/16481

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/apr/30/labour-antisemitism-ken-livingstone-george-galloway?CMP=twt_gu ]Very strong piece by Nick Cohen[/url], who has been warnings about these issues for years.