Jubilee sentiment tracker

Was that Paddington scene really Liz, an actress or CGI like Paddington? 😆

that selfless commitment to duty and to service

Nope read all that still not any wiser on what she has done

I hope that helps you to understand how people who clearly admire Mrs Windsor see her.

That does not really compute, to me at least.

Being a person who by good fortune of birth (and death of her father) has been sniffing around many many democratically* elected world leaders for 7 decades, certainly gives her an outlook and set of experiences that are unique. But why would that make her someone to admire? Mrs C's grandma is still alive and coincidentally born the same year. She is remarkably sparky and with it and still lives independently in her own small home. Not in a sheltered housing facility - just a regular flat. She goes out to the shops, cooks for herself and cleans the home. She spent her working life as a cleaner and spent her middle years getting some academic qualifications in evening classes that were not an option when she was young. It turns out she was just as genetically predisposed as queenie (arguably more so given the different levels of help and privilege one of the two has had all her life). If they had been swapped at birth I don't doubt she would have been an equal authority on what it's like to knock around with democratically* elected world leaders. It's not a trait to be 'admired' in Liz Saxe-Coburg - it's just a happy accident that happened to her. In getting dewy eyed for her, you are really applauding what a system can do for a person given that much privilege. Two capable old dears, with 96 years of very different life experiences, determined by the womb they emerged from. One gets flag shagged, the other a trip to tesco express for her Sunday dinner.

* - just popped that there to point out the obvious elephant in the room (the alive one, the one Phil didn't shoot).

I hope that helps you to understand how people who clearly admire Mrs Windsor see her.

Errr Nicola is hardly likely to come out in public and declare her absolute loathing of the English Queen is she?

I'm neither for or against the royals in any big way. The only thing about them I can say with complete certainty is that I wouldn't want to be one for all the tea in China. I can't see any way a person who has been born into the royal arena could possible even begin to know what living a normal life would be like - and I'm not sure they can really be blamed for that. I imagine the palaces they live in are very much like living in 5 star hotels. Very comfortable - for sure, but not "home"....

They seem to me just to be a fairly large family with all the "interpersonal / relationship" problems that most families have but with the added problem of being under the microscope 24/7. Being a Royal doesn't in any way mean your personality is going to be flawless - quite the opposite in fact - like so many wealthy or powerful people, the position they are in gives them the opportunity to behave very badly and get away with it if they are so inclined.

As far as their wealth is concerned, the value of this crown or that crown, this palace or that palace, how they could sell some of their stuff to "feed a hungry child..." well there's certainly money there, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to sell the royal jewels or properties even if they wanted to / were allowed to? In any case, selling of the "Royal family silver" isn't a sustainable long term answer to the UK's financial problems.

I’d have been out to check out those cars as well. Especially on a sunny day. Not sure that adds weight to the idea that people are mad for the jubilee though.

Agreed. I'm not particularly a royalist. But I went to look at the cars, if I'd have been in London I'd have gone to last nights concert because I love live music. We're having a bbq tonight with the neighbours - flags not required. The families who came to the Fair on Friday were on the whole not dressed in union flags and singing God Save the Queen.

But the point is that these things are only happening because of the Jubilee. They could have happened anyway, but didn't in any other year.

The suggestion that people are boycotting these events in large numbers just isn't true. For most, the jubilee is just an excuse to get together with people, get out to a car show, play "pin the tail on the corgi" (yes really - not my idea!) and have some fun then why not. I've had a really good couple of days because of the jubilee and I've not waved a flag, bought any jubilee tat, or muttered any sycophantic bollocks. Just had some nice times with my family, friends and colleagues. It's like enjoying Christmas despite not believing in God or Santa.

What on Earth was Billy prattling on about. Him and his dad speeches were truly dreadful and demonstrated to huge hypocrisy that is the rf

Errr Nicola is hardly likely to come out in public and declare her absolute loathing of the English Queen is she?

She's full of shit?

In reality she absolutely loathes the Queen?

The suggestion that people are boycotting these events in large numbers just isn’t true

How do you know that?

Nicola Sturgeon is just trying to draw a distinction between the Queen and what is to come.
Like in Australia where republicans think their best chance of getting rid of the monarchy is to wait until Queenie dies and her less popular son takes over.

For those who say they wouldn't want to be a member of the royal family, I think you may feel differently if you were struggling to feed your family and heat your home and generally had a pretty shit life anyway.

Nicola Sturgeon is just trying to draw a distinction between the Queen and what is to come.

Did you actually read what Sturgeon said about the Queen?

You can spin it anyway you like but it won't change the fact that it was a gushing tribute to the Queen.

Edit: The suggestion that it is to make a distinction with what is to come would appear to nail the lie that the Queen has made absolutely no personal contribution to the role of monarch.

(yes really – not my idea!)

Shame, it’s a good idea. Just like the drones forming a Corgi chasing a bone. Those little things show genuine fondness towards the Queen herself, and her personal likes, rather than just forelock tugging and worshipping the intuition of the Monarchy.

For those drawing comparisons with the additional public holiday and Christmas, it’s worth remembering that the winter festivals predate Christmas and were adopted by the church to ensure their popularity.

I did read it and yes, it could be described as a gushing tribute but politicians generally only say things that will advance their cause and whatever NS's true feelings towards her Maj, she will have that in the forefront of her mind.

whatever NS’s true feelings towards her Maj, she will have that in the forefront of her mind.

Well perhaps that's what all those middle-class 'radicals' distraught by the current jubilee celebrations should be concentrating on - convincing themselves that no one actually likes the Queen and it is all just said for effect.

I am sure that it would make them feel a whole lot better during this difficult time for them.

"Goodness me, did you hear David Attenborough's and Stephen Fry's tribute to the Queen last night? Surely they couldn't have meant it??? Of course they didn't mean it!"

It's not about liking the Queen. It's about whether you want the monarchy to continue or whether you''d rather have an elected head of state.

There will be no constitutional change while she is Monarch. She is genuinely liked by many who think the Monarchy an anachronism, not just those who support its continuation. When the very personal link of this particular monarch to all our lives, for all of our lives (in most cases), is gone… the mood surrounding how we ‘choose’ our future heads of state might shift surprisingly quickly.

whether you”d rather have an elected head of state.

Well most of the people who dislike the Queen on here appear to despise politicians even more and never seem to have a good thing to say about them.

Can you imagine the endless and insufferable whinging with regards to a GB president?

At least those that want to display their 'radical' credentials by attacking the Queen only occasionally do it, such as times like this, and the rest of the time they don't seem to give a monkeys.

So it's a tricky one I'm sure you'll agree.

rather have an elected head of state.

Genuine question I don't know the answer to.....

Why can't the prime minister be the head of state? In nations that have a prime minister, Kingdoms give the Head of State gig to a monarch and republics a president. Seems a right unnecessary faff. If we manage to move forward a century or 5 and shed ourselves of a monarchy, could we just not give the job to the PM of the day (even if the job title needed a rebrand)? Not all nations with a president have a prime minister too (e.g. USA) so I guess there must be a work around.

The usual repost to ditching the monarchy is along the lines of "well, do you really want Blair/Brown/Cameron/May/Johnston as head of state?", to which I say, lets stop voting for dicks then!

But I went to look at the cars

Windsor had a car show on The Long Walk - one British car for each year of the reign. Some nice gems there; Noble, McLaren, Lister Jaguar (£88k in 1988!), A Bristol, Allegro Vanden Plas, a lot of TVRs, Rolls and Bentleys. But the star... made famous from the video of "Don't you want me?" was of course the Rover Vitesse SD1 press car. thought they'd all rusted by now. Terry Wogan's Mini, but not Mini Metros. Funny that the Cosworth Sierra was AWOL, like my stepfather's (stolen twice).

Thousands of people, lots of bands and big screens to watch the show and one presumes cheer the queen (She'd hear it from the castle).

It’s not about liking the Queen. It’s about whether you want the monarchy to continue or whether you”d rather have an elected head of state.

And yet a few posts back you made it about the former by implying a major public figure was bullshiting when she claimed to like the queen.

Well most of the people who dislike the Queen on here appear to despise politicians even more and never seem to have a good thing to say about them.

The thing is politicians actually have to work for a living. They get attacked because their actions have real visible impacts (unlike queenie who influences laws in secret because if we knew what they did then it would damage their image of impartiality).
If they do a crap job then they get binned. We also dont have to put up with their offspring automatically. Opinions are split on Margaret Thatcher but I think even her greatest fans are happy her son didnt get the job.
Whereas we will be getting Charles who is so unselfaware he came out with this.
“What is wrong with everyone nowadays? Why do they all seem to think they are qualified to do things far beyond their technical capabilities? People seem to think they can all be pop stars, high court judges, brilliant TV personalities or infinitely more competent heads of state without ever putting in the necessary work or having natural ability. This is the result of social utopianism which believes humanity can be genetically and socially engineered to contradict the lessons of history.”

Ernie copied and pasted NS comments on the Queen and then said: "I hope that helps you to understand how people who clearly admire Mrs Windsor see her."
I was suggesting that it is a little naive to take a politician at their word.
And in any case NS never said she liked the Queen, she did say she respected her.
Whether that is true or not, we'll likely never know.

This is why we can't have a proper discussion about the monarchy in this country. Far too much sentimentalism about them and anyone who says anything negative about them is automatically denounced as a traitor. It's very much like arguing about religion.

This is why we can’t have a proper discussion about the monarchy in this country. Far too much sentimentalism about them and anyone who says anything negative about them is automatically denounced as a traitor.

Your post is the first time that I have seen the word "traitor" used on this thread or in any other discussion surrounding the jubilee.

Have you got any examples which I might have missed where anyone who has said anything negative about the monarchy has automatically been denounced as a traitor?

Btw your claim that Nicola Sturgeon isn't saying that she "likes" the Queen is her gushing tribute to her sounds rather desperate.

I wasn't talking about this thread in particular but rather in general when I used the word traitor.
And it wasn't necessarily meant to be taken literally, I was over emphasising so as to make a point.
As for NS, call it desperation if it pleases you to do so. Like I say, we'll likely never know what she really thinks about the Queen as a person and I am not sure it matters so much in any case.
Certainly her comments proves absolutely nothing.

You've been pretty aggressive in your defence of the monarchy and if you wish to live your life being a brown nose to the monarch, then that's your choice. Just try to respect the fact that some of us don't.

Edited to say: Are you really saying that liking someone and respecting someone is the same thing? It's really not you know. Also, what's that saying about facts and stories?

I think to to be discussing if NS 'likes' Lizzie is to be missing the point - arguably deliberately.

You can like her as a person, you can even acknowledge that by dint of good fortune she has a lot of experience of spending time around world leaders, but still actively wish for monarchy to end and question the necessity of a jubilee. It's an irrelevance. Public 'like' of the current monarch might be the thing that keeps the gig going for the Saxe-Coburgs and 'dislike' of the next incumbent might finish it off - but that's more to do with the superficial level much of society is conducted at as anything more profound about the concept of living in a kingdom rather than a republic.

Like I say, we’ll likely never know what she really thinks about the Queen as a person

Well we do know because Nicola Sturgeon has it made very clear what her opinions with regards to the Queen are.

You have decided that because Nicola Sturgeon is a politician she must be lying. Which presumably means that we are never likely to know what she, or any other politician, really think about anything.

And presents something of a problem if the role of head of state is to be an elected politician.

You’ve been pretty aggressive in your defence of the monarchy and if you wish to live your life being a brown nose to the monarch, then that’s your choice. Just try to respect the fact that some of us don’t.

I haven't defended the monarchy at all. I have specifically said that it a hangover from a long gone feudal past which has no place in an advanced democracy.

What I have done is defended the right of individuals to enjoy the jubilee celebrations without being preached to by self-righteous middle-class pseudo-radicals. It is rather ironic that you should be ask me to respect other people's attitudes.

And whatever my opinions of the monarchy might be I am perfectly prepared to accept that many people like and respect Mrs Windsor on a personal level due to her alleged dedication to the role which she was born into.

I know very little about her, I have never met her, she has never given me any advice, and I have no interest in the royal family or what they get up to - I don't even know the names of half of them.

Btw one of the principle reasons I have never, as a foreign born migrant, applied to become a naturalized Brit is that I have never felt very comfortable about being a hypocrite and publicly swearing allegiance to Queen Elizabeth 2 and her successors. Also my communist party membership might have put the validity of my legal oath in question.

Luckily a fairly recent change in the law means that I can now probably apply for British nationality through my mother. You don't have to swear allegiance to the Crown if it is a birthright.

You’ve been pretty aggressive in your defence of the monarchy

Can you give an example of ernie 'agressively' defending the monarchy. Or does it fall into the same category as your traitor comment, i.e. never happened?

Aggresion on this thread is people being called 'stupid' or' flag shagging little englanders' for attending Jubilee events.

I am ambivalent about the monarchy with a leaning towards republicanism but respect the Queen as a person. I attended a local Jubilee event because it was a welcome and rare opportunity for communal fun and  to socialise with neighbours. There are millions like me. Ordinary folk from all walks of life, with differing viewpoints on the monarchy and every other subject but who took the opportunity to have a a bit of bank holiday fun.

Every one of them 'stupid'? Flag shagging little englanders? 'Servile'? 'Brown nose'? Etc. etc. It's a sneering, condescending sense of superiority.  Look at those plebs with their simple minded diversions.

You have decided that because Nicola Sturgeon is a politician she must be lying

You seem to be the one reading stuff in which hasnt been said. That statement from Sturgeon really isnt that gushing.

And presents something of a problem if the role of head of state is to be an elected politician.

Good point lets stick to the royals for whom the government declined to release information about their meddling and lobbying because it would risk "the appearance of political neutrality".
Bugger

Well most of the people who dislike the Queen on here appear to despise politicians even more and never seem to have a good thing to say about them.

Can you imagine the endless and insufferable whinging with regards to a GB president?

At least those that want to display their ‘radical’ credentials by attacking the Queen only occasionally do it, such as times like this, and the rest of the time they don’t seem to give a monkeys.

4/10 you need to up your trolling game

That statement from Sturgeon really isnt that gushing.

gushing
(of speech or writing) effusive or exaggeratedly enthusiastic.
"gushing praise"

You think Nicola Sturgeon isn't exaggerating her enthusiasm for the Queen when she says this, she really is that enthusiastic?

Nicola Sturgeon has spoken of her “deep respect” for the Queen, saying her private conversations with the monarch are one of the privileges of being Scotland’s First Minister.

The knowledge that gives her, the wisdom that gives her, the perspective that gives her is much more valuable in these conversations then any specific thing that she will perhaps say.”

I am ambivalent about the monarchy with a leaning towards republicanism

There are millions like me. Ordinary folk from all walks of life, with differing viewpoints on the monarchy and every other subject but who took the opportunity to have a a bit of bank holiday fun.

We have come full circle, millions of people who don't support the monarchy out supporting the monarchy cause it's a bit of fun isn't it...I still don't get it, what am I missing? Why so happy to be thrown a bone and do their PR for them?

Despite earnies trolling I am no radical I just don't support the Monarchy so haven't gone out and supported the Monarchy, hardly radical stuff that. I also don't like football so I don't go to football matches.

TBF, now he's put it in bold I totally believe it.

Couldn't give two shits about Sturgeons view tbh, it's not like I can vote for or against her.

Ernie, I am not going to repeat my comments on NS as there's no point.
Having an elected head of state won't solve all our problems but it might help make the UK a better place to live in the long term.
I have made no comment about people going to jubilee parties. I have no problem with anyone going. Insult me all you like but them's the facts. There has been aggressive comments about anyone questioning what a marvellous person the Queen is as well as other things.

Bloke, I have been clear what I said about traitors, try reading my post before commenting. Again, I have said nothing about parties, if you went and had a good time, good for you. Didn't go to one myself which makes me neither a better or worse person than someone who did.

I did watch on TV though. Thought much of it was ok to be honest in a don't think too hard about things kind of way. I even enjoyed Rod Stewart's performance thanks to Binners.

There has been aggressive comments about anyone questioning what a marvellous person the Queen is

Example?

NS has clearly been bold over by the marvellousness of her Maj

Try scrolling through, Bloke.

The sentiment tracking going on in this thread seems to be as skewed and chewed up as a dusty old vhs recorder!

There has been aggressive comments about anyone questioning what a marvellous person the Queen is

Example?

Every now and then I let my guard down and start to think you might be a decent person. Then you revert to type and prove me wrong.

Try scrolling through, Bloke.

I have.  Can't find an example, but I didn't make the claim so I don't need to back it up.

I just posted one from you above - and there have been others 🙂

Posting the full video, as I don’t think anyone has yet…

https://twitter.com/mrmikecowan/status/1533164454057332736?s=21

10/10

Genuinely brought a tear to my eye.

Anyway, still no real sign of a Jubilee around here. Perhaps I’m not looking hard enough. Will have to watch some more of the London stuff on TV. The last hurrah of a lovely Monarch. I wish she could be our last. What a great way to honour her. Our last, finest, longest serving Monarch. When studying history, any unqualified mention of “The Queen” will be taken to be a reference to Elizabeth II.

Sorry TJ I'm not having that.  I said that not in response to you 'questioning what a marvellous person the Queen is' but because you insulted everyone who attended a jubilee event by calling them flag shagging little englanders.  Pretty ugly and offensive stuff.

Here's another quote of mine on the subject:

Every one of them ‘stupid’? Flag shagging little englanders? ‘Servile’? ‘Brown nose’? Etc. etc. It’s a sneering, condescending sense of superiority.  Look at those plebs with their simple minded diversions.

NS has clearly been bold over by the marvellousness of her Maj

Well it's her opinion not mine, I simply provided and an example for AA who accuses me off trolling, as my earlier comment pointed out:

It’s a question which you have seemed to have asked before AA, so maybe this will help you understand the alternative point of view. It is a gushing tribute from Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon:

I think Stephen Fry's tribute to Mrs Windsor outside the gates of Buckingham Palace last night was also another excellent example, if you watched it. Which apparently some people who are totally against the jubilee celebrations did. Trolling indeed eh?

Remind me, what is Stephen Fry's profession?