[Closed] Joker - does it deserve the hype?

I wouldnt say it was a frightening or disturbing film,

not frightening, no, but definitely disturbing. His laughter when disturbed, especially when he was on stage, the comment in his journal about mental illness and the way he ran as if he wasn't really in control of his body were all things I was really uncomfortable with. More so than any film I can remember. Incredible performance by Phoenix. I'm sure I'll want to see it again, just not right now.

Has the film ratings system softened? Would have made it an 18 myself

There's an incentive to make films a high rating, is a horror film even worth seeing if its not an 18? Probably, most would be 12/15 but as long as you show some nipples you've got your 18 cert, nothing to do with the horror part.

18 would probably need 'that' scene to be more graphic, and a softcore wet dream.

Went with the wife last night to see Joker, and yes, it is fantastic. It's no superhero film and that's what makes it great. Reminded me of (and I'm sure this was the point) of the films of the late 70's, from the old Warner Brothers logo to the aspect ratio.

Just a shame that the media keeps poking for a mass shooting so they can blame the film

2nd viewing last night. It’s up there with my favourite films - definitely a favourite performance from Phoenix. Utterly mesmerising.

I haven't watched it, but friend of mine said that this film will make you think differently about Joker. Well, I think will watch it next week.

Can’t stand superhero films. Took nephew to watch this yesterday. I enjoyed it. Didn’t need any of the batman connotations, nor the Gotham setting really. Could just be post Brexit apocalypse with haves and have nots 🙂

Darker than many, more a descent into mental instability film. Some excellent scenes, perhaps a little over acted. De Niro was very good.

I expected large amounts of gratuitous sadism, but you only get so much for a 15 and the film was the better for it.

will [hopefully] make [people] think differently about [how they treat others]

Yes
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I thought 15 was about right. Few F words. Violence in context. No more graphical than a computer game. My nephew is 16 and plays games. If your just-15 is not used to seeing shooter computer games then may be worth a miss

Just got back. Hmmmm I guess I’m in a minority but I just thought it was a bit dull. Sure he’s clearly an amazing actor when it comes to playing psychopaths, and it was beautifully filmed, but still an hour too long for me I’m afraid....sorry!

Just got back. Hmmmm I guess I’m in a minority but I just thought it was a bit dull. Sure he’s clearly an amazing actor when it comes to playing psychopaths, and it was beautifully filmed, but still an hour too long for me I’m afraid….sorry!

Saw it tonight, I'm no film critic & just want to be entertained. Good part played by Phoenix but I also found it very dull & could've slept through it. I must have found it less dull than two people who walked out halfway through though.

I thought 15 was about right. Few F words. Violence in context. No more graphical than a computer game.

Bizarre that that’s what you came away thinking of the level of content.
I guess some folk don’t look any deeper than the images they see onscreen.

I guess some folk don’t look any deeper than the images they see onscreen.

I guess some people can't. Including me. 🙁

It’s fair enough - its why we all like different things eh?

Not quite De, just that above that age the material on mental stability would be age appropriate. I thought the hardest scene had no violence whatsoever, personally.

One of the few films I've seen recently that I thought finished too soon, I was a bit disappointed the final act didn't go on 20 mins longer, or maybe the build up/payoff ratio wasn't quite right. Up until the point he becomes the joker it's extremely bleak but the acting is mesmerising and its beautifully filmed.
The violence isn't particularly over the top, seemingly much to the disappointment of the teenage boys sitting across from me who spent most of the film being irritating, it should have been an 18 just to keep the children out.

Well the bloke and his girlfriend who were sat next to me stank of skunk, and spent almost the whole film demolishing 4 large bags of kettle chip/ Dorito type things! 😡

Just back, thought it was fantastic. Don't know if it was De Niro being in the film but I can't think of a more convincingly disturbing character since Max Cady. Not perfect but nigh on, thought the chat show scene was a bit stilted and the Gotham tension building could have been developed a bit better. But I'm being picky. I'd love to see a Batman in the same style. Fwiw I thought this was closer to comic book/ graphic novel style than the Marvel stuff even though folks are saying it's not a superhero film.

I’d love to see a Batman in the same .

Would it work though?

Not my quote but funny...

Batman: I must save this city

Alfred: well you're a multi billionaire so maybe you should redist-

Batman: This bat suit is the only way!

Definitely a lot of darker material out there than has been seen in the cinema. Quite how they would do it I'm not sure but it's be good to see a grittier Batman.

I’m going to have to go against consensus I’m afraid. It was okay, well shot, great cinematography and Phoenix’s performance was brilliant. The thing is, for me, it didn’t need to be the Joker. If anything it would’ve been a better film without the DC connection.

Would’ve worked better in my opinion if it was just about some guy. I can’t remove the Batman connection with it being set in Gotham and including the Wayne family. With that in place it just doesn’t work. The character isn’t clever, cunning or chaotic enough. If it was just a character study centred around a man slowly tipping over the edge it would’ve been all the better for it.

Not sure where all the talk of violence comes from either. A couple of mildly violent scenes that don’t show much detail. A solid film with a great central character, a pretty poor predictable, cliched plot and towards the end he just started sounding like Michael Jackson in my mind.

And for those who have seen Pursuit Of Happyness, did you figure out who makes an appearance in the last scene?

I must have missed something, I'll need that explaining

I thought it was great, horribly painful in places (and I'm asking myself why that's enjoyable as I write) but this -

The thing is, for me, it didn’t need to be the Joker. If anything it would’ve been a better film without the DC connection.

Would’ve worked better in my opinion if it was just about some guy.

.... is absolutely spot on.

I thought the same funkmaster, would've worked without the obvious and slightly forced comic book slant to it. Agree with DezB as well though, its an amazingly mesmerising performance by Pheonix

Watched it last night and loved it. I love the dark gritty psychological aspect of it and Phoenix portrayed the part brilliantly. It was painful to see how he suffered (the character) and I'm hoping there's more to follow like this. I'm not a fan of the old Batman films, too tongue in cheek, I prefer realism and this had it in bucket loads. Superb film.

Finally seen it today (hate going to a busy cinema).

I get the comments about it not necessarily needing to be a DC film, but the connections and nods (loved the 'batpole' but I was the only person there today laughing out loud at that) to the DC universe made it more compelling, not less, for me. Happy they signposted

Still making me think a few hours later - both specific details and deeper stuff -

This and Logan point to a potential different direction for comic-based films that I would be glad to see.

Phoenix's performance is astonishing - in every (I think) scene and carries the entire film on his weird looking shoulders. Can't think of (m)any other current actors who could have made this work as well.

Torn on the fact that this is a standalone. Kind of like that it's just what it is, but also curious to see the character develop further and come into conflict with an equally 'real' caped crusader.

I've hung back on this thread till now.
Phoenix, incredible performance
Film itself average.
It wont get an oscar.

Finally got round to seeing it last night. Wasn't entirely sure what to expect, but went with an open mind & was really disappointed.

Phoenix was great, but at times it felt like filler & perving over his body - hey everyone, look how much weight he's lost, isn't it amazing... & the cinematography was impressive, it looked stunning.

From now on are potential spoilers (hopefully hidden in the tags, but don't say I didn't warn you...

I also thought it was dull and overly long. There’s no denying the quality of the acting from Phoenix but the film just didn’t get interesting quickly enough. If I’d gone on my own I doubt I would have made it to the end.

Loved it. Odd, at the midpoint it did feel a bit long. However, by the end I just wanted more. It was great in every respect - I don't think it was meant to flow nicely, as this was character developments and flaws, so all the disjointed parts for me worked really well. My wife thought it was utterly brilliant.

The thing is, for me, it didn’t need to be the Joker. If anything it would’ve been a better film without the DC connection.

Would’ve worked better in my opinion if it was just about some guy.

Nobody would have gone to see it then. It would just be another bleak, disturbing film starring Phoenix. A pointless Pointless question in a few years.

Just been to see Joker , brilliant performance from Joaquin Phoenix .

Finally having started the thread we saw it this week. I thought it definitely lived up to the hype. His descent into the Joker and the role that society played was really well done. My only criticism would be that I would liked to have spent more time on screen with the confident, witty final character that appeared on Mur-RAY's talk show. The build up could have been quicker, or the film 20 minutes longer to make more of the final character, particularly since it looks likely to be a one-off. Just a brilliant film.

My only criticism would be that I would liked to have spent more time on screen with the confident, witty final character that appeared on Mur-RAY’s talk show

Its left the door open for another film , its the first time in years ive seen an audience give a round of applause at the end if a film .

No

I'm another in the it-was-brilliant crowd.

I don't have much to add beyond what's been said, except that, before I'd seen it, I'd heard a fair bit of noise from the (political) left about it glorifying Incels, and a few complaints that it focuses on a white male.

I'm very much a leftist myself, but after watching it I was racking my brains to work out if I'd seen the same film.

It's about mental health at heart, and austerity and inequality are strong background presences.

I've not a clue how anyone that's actually seen it could link it to Incels.

I’ve not a clue how anyone that’s actually seen it could link it to Incels.

They probably haven’t, just like most films that provoke that sort of response.
There have been recent examples of that sort of commentary even before a film has been released, based on nothing but a synopsis and hearsay.
My memory isn’t up to giving specific examples, but they’re out there.
It’s reactionary conservatives who are blinkered and only see what they want to see, based on dog-whistle social media feeds.

With Doomaniac on this ...
Overly long, watching a man descend into the depths of insanity. Lots of justifications as to why he did - but then, so what? Obviously a metaphor for modern life and politics.
Great acting from Phoenix - but very bleak. Just didn't like it

It’s reactionary conservatives who are blinkered and only see what they want to see, based on dog-whistle social media feeds.

Or hype pumped out by the movie studios that hardens the resolve of their target fanbase?

They probably haven’t, just like most films that provoke that sort of response.
There have been recent examples of that sort of commentary even before a film has been released, based on nothing but a synopsis and hearsay.
My memory isn’t up to giving specific examples, but they’re out there.
It’s reactionary conservatives who are blinkered and only see what they want to see, based on dog-whistle social media feeds.

Agreed, aside from the fact that this time it was unfortunately reactionary leftists, which feels an own goal to me.

I fell asleep for a few seconds at various points with a dig in the ribs from the missus bringing me back into focus ..
Thought in the main that it was pretty boring ...my sixteen year old son & his mate both liked it though ..
Not having read this thread or any other fluff before going to see it I must have sounded like a bit of a tit when I mentioned that the main actor reminded me of Joachim Phoenix..

Well, a day off and off I went to our new Odeon Luxe.  Only one in the Cinema, so I spread my self out on a leather recliner with my feet up and...

...Maybe I shouldn’t have gone when I’m a bit stressed about things.   I’m not sure if it was good or not I just can’t make my mind up, but I came out with the impression that’s it’s probably close to modern society today and the resulting end scenes with Joker as the new found leader/celebrity of violence are probably not to far away from reality.

i find myself a little disturbed and nervous for my kids future as a result tbh, yet not sure if that’s exaggerated  my mental state and me being silly or a reality check that’s talking.

It was great performance by the lead actor but as a whole a bit meh.

Really pleased Joaquin got the best actor Oscar .

Finally watched it a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely superb, Joaquin’s performance was incredible he caught the body language, the behaviour, voice and look of someone suffering with mental health perfectly. The story was superb too and some great support acting too from relatively unknowns, it’s now one of my favourite films. Seen it twice now.