[Closed] The Panama Papers.

actually youre right they are only going after the really nasty world leaders

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Wonder if they've got anything from KPMG?

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Anyhoo, here's a couple of other shady types:

[img] ?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=2b66d8702cd1f88b2e43ca5e28123f3f[/img]

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Wonder how much money relating to arms trafficking and the intelligence services is handled offshore?

Are the Cayman Islands better than Panama for legal tax avoidance?

Asking for a friend....

panamas possibly a bit compromised at the moment

definitely Cayman

Id like to think its the begining of the end for the tax havens, but itll never happen even if everyone of them was aggressively pursued, theyd only set up on the moon or mars, still it might be the driver for humanity to expand into the stars 😉

great interactive here

https://panamapapers.icij.org/the_power_players/

Several trillion dollars of untaxed income as a result of it being hidden away in fake companies, benefiting heads of state, film stars, sports stars, our beloved Prime Minister's father?
Nah, it'll all be forgotten about this time tomorrow.

@kimbers the end for "tax havens" - what about Ireland and Luxembourg ? Under pressure from the EU Ireland finally agreed to end its triple-Irish zero tax deals but not for 4 more years !!! Junker personally negotiated dozens of similar deals and he's been rewarded with the Presidency of the EU.

The garphic above - children involved in offshore companies owning property in uk - of course when you introduce property taxes of 5% but company transfers are 0.5% people are going to buy properties in companies unless you do something to prevent it. Labour didn't think of it and the Tories closed the loophole.

CFH 😉 Panama is easily the "best" choice vs Cayman

Russia put on the most expensive Winter Olympics ever with facilities costing the government many many times originalmestimates. Money paid to private companies after contracts signed off by government officials. The whole thing is a disgrace but its hardly a Panama revelation is it ?

Oh there he goes again..."Ireland...blah...blah..Luxembourg...blah...blah...Junkers...blah...blah...blah..."

Bored already Jamba.

Of course, you probably already know why we don't know whether it's taxed or not don't you?

I suppose with this Panama thing, one has to ask oneself why someone needs to head there to hide his of her cash. Nowhere offers the level of secrecy and opacity of Panama, despite it not exactly being next door to a fair chunk of the world, nor offering the relative safety of say, British-dependent tax havens such as Jersey or the Isle Of Man.

Nope, when it comes to secrecy and ethically dubious methods of wealth management, no one can beat Panama. So, when you're wondering whether it's all above board or not, ask yourself why the person whose methods of wealth management you're judging: "Why Panama then matey?"

You get a free hat when you open an account?

(I keep mine on my parcel shelf)

Oh there he goes again..."Ireland...blah...blah..Luxembourg...blah...blah...Junkers...blah...blah...blah..."

Bored already Jamba.

You would think someone of jambas claimed background and knowledge would have known about the European savings directive.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/european-union-savings-directive-countering-cross-border-tax-evasion

The company said it..

has never been charged with criminal wrong-doing.

Is that not the Lance Armstrong defense?

I have never been caught taking drugs...

Ashcroft has claimed its all made up nasty lies 🙄

What company or organisation do you think this is?

- Headquarters registered in Jersey for tax avoidance purposes.
- 600 branch offices owned and controlled by a Bermuda holding company for the same reason.

RBS? BAe Systems? Barclays?

Nope, it's HMRC.

It really is laughable. Corrupt from the very top.

Yup from the very top, Nothing illegal obvs 😕 , just a depressing state of affairs..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-35961422

the Panama papers are going to be in the news cycle and worthy of comment for a week or so,

I don't think it was meant this way, but that sounds rather tired and jaded ie: no-one's surprised, we all reckon this stuff goes on anyway and have tolerated it for years - and it'll disappear off the front pages after a couple of weeks of fear for some...

Maybe I'm just getting old and cynical but I'm just not surprised they've been able to find a link to our own PM. There's surely something on Osborne too, they've just not found it yet, and probably Blair as well...

Read Plato's Republic, written around 300 BC and you'll see that the idea that power appears impossible to deal with without it corrupting people, has been around for ever.

Ben - what's the source for the HRMC stuff? Ironically amusing, if true, but I might be being thick here but why would government department need to do what you claim?

- Headquarters registered in Jersey for tax avoidance purposes.
- 600 branch offices owned and controlled by a Bermuda holding company for the same reason.

RBS? BAe Systems? Barclays?

Nope, it's HMRC.

Eh? - got a link?

Read Plato's Republic, written around 300 BC and you'll see that the idea that power appears impossible to deal with without it corrupting people, has been around for ever.

I think Plato has it arse about face. Power doesn't corrupt - only the corrupt can gain power (or - "if you want to get ahead, be a ****")

It's not HMRC directly.

They outsourced they management of their buildings to Mapeley for 20 years. Without checking where they were based!

Private Eye have been banging on about it for years, but as they don't do online here's the guardian from 6 years ago:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/08/revenue-tax-offshore-millions-avoidance

thx, that makes a little bit more sense

Don't they employ quite a few staff as contractors too?

Yes, It's the usual trick of selling off assets then renting them back again.

Oldie but a Goldie:

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Brinks Matt theft proceeds laundered as well 😆 they would work for anyone this lot

Facetious, I know but every time someone says Panama, I hear David Lee Roth.

Panama-ha-ha 😮

Ben, HMRC has 160 offices in the UK that it rents from a commercial series of landlords- at rather more than arm's length.
The Department is based in Whitehall, not Jersey. Oh, and doesn't exist as a commercial organisation, so has no profit taxes to pay. It is part of the civil service!
The relevant sections of crown estate, the buildings, were sold off many years ago by an idealogically challenged government to several property companies including at least one profit making off-shore registered entity.
But hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Wrecker- Contractors? er, no.

And finally, HMRC does not write tax law. The politicians do that. And they cut the budget, year after year. Close offices. Lay off staff. you'd almost think that they didn't want the organisation to actually be an effective tax police force. HMRC now has [u]half [/u]of the staff from just a decade ago. And is entering a programme of office closures that will see 145 offices close and at least another 10,000 staff depart permanently.
Does anyone else think that there might be an agenda behind this?

Does anyone else think that there might be an agenda behind this?

Tax Office is being automated / taken online. The days of paper tax returns are behind us and you simply don't need the same amount of staff.

Bringing the Referendum into this membership of the EU is the biggest cause of lost tax revenue to us, billions amd billions per anum. I am sure you are bored of hearing about it @dead, much more convenient if its just swept under the carpet

Brinks Matt theft proceeds laundered as well they would work for anyone this lot

Brinks-MAT is pretty small time in the bigger picture... how are organizations like Al-Qaeda and ISIS funded?

What about the 9/11 hijackers?

Being as records go back to the 70s, there may be further light shed on the activities of the BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International)

[url= http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_globalbanking118.htm ]The Dirtiest Bank of them all[/url]

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and the resulting strategic importance of neighboring ****stan accelerated the growth of B.C.C.I.'s geopolitical power and its unbridled use of the black network. Because the U.S. wanted to supply the mujahedin rebels in Afghanistan with Stinger missiles and other military hardware, it needed the full cooperation of ****stan, across whose border the weapons would be shipped.

By the mid-1980s, the CIA's Islamabad operation was one of the largest U.S. intelligence stations in the world.

"If B.C.C.I. is such an embarrassment to the U.S. that forthright investigations are not being pursued, it has a lot to do with the blind eye the U.S. turned to the heroin trafficking in ****stan," says a U.S. intelligence officer.

The black network was a natural outgrowth of B.C.C.I.'s dubious and criminal associations.

The bank was in a unique position to operate an intelligence-gathering unit because it dealt with such figures as,

~General Noriega

~Saddam Hussein

~Ferdinand Marcos

~Peruvian President Alan Garcia

~Daniel Ortega

~Contra leader Adolfo Calero

~Arms dealers like Adnan Khashoggi

Its original purpose was to pay bribes, intimidate authorities and quash investigations.

[url= http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/11/weekinreview/the-world-offshore-banking-s-umbrella-shields-more-than-bcci.html ]THE WORLD; Offshore Banking's Umbrella Shields More Than B.C.C.I.[/url]

Who presides over more Tax havens than any other entity on earth?

Oops, forgot this bit:

[b]From interviews with sources close to B.C.C.I., TIME has pieced together a portrait of a clandestine division of the bank called the "black network," which functions as a global intelligence operation and a Mafia-like enforcement squad.[/b] Operating primarily out of the bank's offices in Karachi, ****stan, the 1,500-employee black network has used sophisticated spy equipment and techniques, along with bribery, extortion, kidnapping and even, by some accounts, murder.

The black network - so named by its own members - stops at almost nothing to further the bank's aims the world over.

The more conventional departments of B.C.C.I. handled such services as laundering money for the drug trade and helping dictators loot their national treasuries.

[b]The black network, which is still functioning, operates a lucrative arms-trade business and transports drugs and gold. According to investigators and participants in those operations, it often works with Western and Middle Eastern intelligence agencies. The strange and still murky ties between B.C.C.I. and the intelligence agencies of several countries are so pervasive that even the White House has become entangled.[/b]

Here's the link to the original TIME article so you know it's not just loony stuff:

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,973481,00.html

Who presides over more Tax havens than any other entity on earth?

Keeping the other thread open would have been smarter.

BCCI has been extensively banged on about for two decades. It's hardly a little known topic

😀

@dead thanks for answer on the other thread, I won't mention Ireland again for .. a while

BCCI has been extensively banged on about for two decades. It's hardly a little known topic

BCCI has been extensively banged on about for two decades. It's hardly a little known topic

Can you find another thread mentioning it?

Do allegations that funds from the Al-Yamamah deal between the UK and Saudi Arabia were used to fund Al-Qaeda in the run up to 9/11 have relevance today?

Who funds, arms and trades with ISIS anyhoo?

Can you find another thread mentioning it?

Al-Q was funded by OBL who was independently wealthy, he didn't need any deals with anyone

Al-Q was funded by OBL who was independently wealthy, he didn't need any deals with anyone

he didn't need any deals with anyone

So how did he get weapons?

Hey ho, Jamby struck dumb...

in the meantime:

It’s a parallel universe for the ultra-rich and ultra-powerful. But a massive new leak has exposed their underworld.

Fusion goes inside the law firm that sells secrecy to drug dealers, dictators and alleged sex traffickers.

[url= http://interactive.fusion.net/dirty-little-secrets/ ]Dirty Little Secrets[/url]

Worth noting that Shell Companies are often used by the intelligence services and despite BCCI's demise, similar operations remain to this day.

Who funds Daesh? Talib? Moreover, how/where is their money managed/distributed?

Hey ho, Jamby struck dumb...

You don't have to be rich or powerful to setup an offshore company, anyone can do it with a few £100. Cyprus isn't even really offshore its an EU member and home to many thousands of Russian holding companies amd trusts.

Lets be clear, there will undoubtably be examples of illegal tax evasion and certainly corruption but you find those every day in every country.

So now Osama Bin Laden is no more, how do Al-Qaeda sustain their existence and fund their operations?

Who exactly do you think you are disagreeing with and over what?

And instead of making rhetorical questions, why don't you just make statements about what you think is the case?

Jamby stated that AQ was funded from bin Laden's own personal riches, which does seem incredible I think jhj was just looking for proof of this.
As I understand it AQ then IS was funded initially by similar anti Shia interested in Qatar and Saudi etc, but lately by taxes 'collected' in its territories and the oil it sells , obviously that means people are buying by IS l, including I believe Assad's own army !?
Plenty of middle Eastern interests named in this leak, I'm sure some of $$ will have made its way to IS.

That's the problem with tax havens outside of democratic oversight, they are the obvious route for illicit funds of any sort.

@kimbers Bin Laden was worth many $100's millions not saying they don't raise more money (inc via donations and criminal activities like drugs) but there would be terrorism without banks and offshore tax havens. Terrorist organisations just steal the weapons or just buy them from corrupt/sympathetic police/military. IS got their weapons from Iraqi army who just ran away after a suicide truck bombing or 10. The EU is frequently critised for having a 500€ note as much criminal activity is cash only.

You could abolish tax havens and even banks tomorrow and it would make little if any difference to terrorism etc

Al-Q was funded by OBL who was independently wealthy, [b]he didn't need any deals with anyone[/b]

Jamby stated that AQ was funded from bin Laden's own personal riches, which does seem incredible I think jhj was just looking for proof of this.

Aye, kimbers has it... basically, even if you are immensely wealthy, you still have to deal with others, whether that be aquiring weapons, training soldiers, or liaising with the head of Saudi intelligence and the Saudi Ambassador to the US (remembering of course that it was MI6/CIA/Saudi Operation Cyclone which led to the creation of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban)

And instead of making rhetorical questions, why don't you just make statements about what you think is the case?

We have to remember that despite BCCI being shut down, the Black Network behind it remains and no doubt those involved learned much about ensuring their activities remain covert.

Time and again we've seen the intelligence services involved in some very dark activity, from Operation Cyclone, Iran Contra (currently reading [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Alliance-Contras-Cocaine-Explosion/dp/1908699744 ]Dark Alliance[/url], about how the Cocaine (and later Crack) industry was intrinsically tied to CIA operations in Latin America in support of the Contras, with all the drug kingpins protected from the highest levels of government)

The CIA and MI6 work hand in hand and many of those alleged to have been involved in High Level Child Abuse on both sides of the pond were liasing: George Kennedy Young and Maurice Oldfield for Example were both in regular contact with Allen Dulles, who was responsible for MK-Ultra and it's subprojects involving training kids in prostitution as a means of entrapping politicians using 2 way mirrors and hidden cameras.

Not to mention the involvement of Special Branch (the exectutive arm of Mi5) in VIP child abuse... how is it they held files on so many prominent figures, who were repeatedly protected from prosecution?

Read this and fact check it:
[url= http://isgp.nl/Beyond_Dutroux_part_two_Nebula ]
"La Nebuleuse": Supranational network tied to child abuse networks, Iran Contra, cocaine cartels and the BCCI's "Black Network"[/url]

"To comprehend this nebula, it is necessary to abandon traditional financial or political logic; this is not merely a question of nation, political party, or of ordinary economics... Our conclusion would be that at least over the last twenty years, the economic powers, some of which mafia types, have allied themselves with political forces and organized criminal structures, and reached the 4th stage of money laundering, namely, Absolute Power. It has been specified to us that at the present moment these characters control 50% of the world economy."

Introduction of a Belgian gendarmerie report to a number of senior officials, District of Liege, November 21, 1994. (emphasis from report)

You can probably guess how I discovered this website:

Incredibly, not only have the Belgians that were involved in Iran Contra been accused of child abuse (Boas, Mathot, Vanden Boeynants and Beaurir), but North and his employer, vice president and later president George Bush, were uncomfortably close to the Franklin child abuse affair in the United States. Both were mentioned by witnesses as having attended the parties of alleged child abuser, Satanist, Contra supporter, money launderer and drug dealer Lawrence E. "Larry" King. [17] Another Contra supporter and alleged child abuser, Robert Keith Gray, was also close to Bush, North and King.

So that begins to tie together the Dutroux Case in Belgium, The Franklin Scandal in the USA and VIP abuse in the UK, along with arms deals, offshore banking and a catalogue of other ****ery that is far easier to pretend doesn't happen.

And yep, the Russians are in on it too:

As it turns out, "Nebula" leader Felix Przedborski lived next-door to Yeltsin-era oligarchs Boris Berezovsky and business partner Badri Patarkatsishvili. Both were Zionists, long-time patrons of Putin, and linked to the Chechen mafia.

Of course, Offshore Banking helps all this happen with less interruption from decent non corrupt members of law enforcement.