Forum menu
Binner - Guardian's Toynbee (bit of a flip flop admittedly) is quite upbeat about Labour.
Johnson’s desperate for a general election, but he faces an unpleasant surprise
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/10/boris-johnson-election-unpleasant-surprise-opposition?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboar d">Bojo unpleasant suprise ...
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1182975977003143168?s=09
Comres had Tories 10pts ahead pre 2017 election.
This isn’t the 2017 election. Corbyn is now a known quantity.
And Joris Bohnson isn't the Maybot
All the noises coming out of the Labour Party, including John McDonnels interview today, sound like they’re resigned to the fact that they’ve already lost. Which they have with someone as crap as Corbyn (apparently) at the helm
Anyone heard from him for the last week or so? No? Thought not. Well.. not much going on politically, so you might as well take the opportunity to spend some time on the allotment
https://twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1182679681126076417?s=21
Anyone heard from him for the last week or so? No? Thought not.
And yet, not more than a day ago you posted this on this very thread;
It was on Channel 4 news.
There he was, in all his glory. Like a local councillor at a town hall meeting reading out the proposals for some new traffic calming measures on the B375
Stirring stuff.
Maybe it didn’t get full coverage as most TV channels don’t want their audience going all sleepy bo-bo’s and missing their latest drama that follows the news?
So yes, people have heard from him, you among them. Even for you this is an outstanding level of willful ignorance, or perhaps its part of an "Edge Lord" persona you're desperately trying to craft?
Go on, post something about 6th Formers or one of those 'hilarious' Monty Python things, wouldn't want it to seem like you're coming up with anything new to compliment your tiresome repertoire.
Can everyone stop quoting yougov as a reliable indicator of polling? It's owned and run by bloody Nadim Zahawi
Just a point of order. Luciana Berger wasn’t “pushed out of the party”, she jumped before she was deselected and dressed it up as a statement against ‘anti-semitism’.
She was in danger of being deselected due to her incredibly Blairite views going against those of a traditionally socialist-leaning constituency, a situation that only existed due her being parachuted into a safe Labour seat seemingly as reward from popping Euan Blair’s cherry.
This puzzles me, was it:
1. There wasn't any anti semitism directed to her and she lied about it?
2. There was anti semitism directed at her, but not enough to justify leaving the party and she lied about her reasons for going but not the anti semitism?
Could you explain for the avoidance of doubt?
This puzzles me, was it:
1. There wasn’t any anti semitism directed to her and she lied about it?
2. There was anti semitism directed at her, but not enough to justify leaving the party and she lied about her reasons for going but not the anti semitism?Could you explain for the avoidance of doubt?
Neither were relevant to why she left the Labour Party, she purely used 'anti-semitism' as her excuse. She has form for throwing around claims of anti-semitism when she doesn't get her own way or feels her opinions are in the minority. It's quite shameful that she does so with such ease when, in doing so, she actually undermines the fight against true anti-semitism.
As an aside it's interesting that a former National Executive member of the NUS is happy to jump into bed with a party leader who...
...voted to cut the Educational Maintenance Allowance for 16-to-19-year-olds and voted to raise tuition fees, despite promising not to as one of the key policies that helped elect many Lib Dem MPs in 2010.
Seems Ms Berger has an incredibly flexible and, at times, convenient set of principles.
Neither were relevant to why she left the Labour Party, she purely used ‘anti-semitism’ as her excuse. She has form for throwing around claims of anti-semitism when she doesn’t get her own way or feels her opinions are in the minority. It’s quite shameful that she does so with such ease when, in doing so, she actually undermines the fight against true anti-semitism.
Clever dodge
So
1. There wasn’t any anti semitism directed to her and she lied about it?
2. There was anti semitism directed at her, but not enough to justify leaving the party and she lied about her reasons for going but not the anti semitism?
3. She didn't experience "true" anti semitism, and used her perceived experience of "not true" anti semitism to damage the labour party
Could you explain for the avoidance of doubt?
Not a "dodge" at all and, for the avoidance of doubt, I've already answered your question.
Oh, and it's worth remembering that criticism of the State of Israel isn't anti-Semitism.
All the noises coming out of the Labour Party, including John McDonnels interview today, sound like they’re resigned to the fact that they’ve already lost
Did you watch all of the JM interview? I did.
He did not allude to that or say that at all. He said he thinks/hopes they can secure a majority.
Even your mate Jess Phillips who hates any positivity about the Labour Party has gone on record as saying she thinks they could get the most votes (even if it's not enough.)
"On Labour's chances at the next election, which could happen by the end of the year, Ms Phillips said it was "not impossible" for the party to win more seats than anyone else."
It's difficult and unpredictable times, and it's not 2017 for sure.
You've moved beyond scathing opinion and into believing your own fantasy which is disappointingly propped up by misinformation.
Can everyone stop quoting yougov as a reliable indicator of polling? It’s owned and run by bloody Nadim Zahawi
Strangely it keeps getting used by the moderates in here to support the idea we as a country have moved towards remain.
Hence the popularity (in their own polls) of the Tories and BP.
Not a “dodge” at all and, for the avoidance of doubt, I’ve already answered your question.
Ok, so you said
Neither were relevant to why she left the Labour Party, she purely used ‘anti-semitism’ as her excuse. She has form for throwing around claims of anti-semitism when she doesn’t get her own way or feels her opinions are in the minority. It’s quite shameful that she does so with such ease when, in doing so, she actually undermines the fight against true anti-semitism.
And
Oh, and it’s worth remembering that criticism of the State of Israel isn’t anti-Semitism
So you believe she didn't experience anti semitism
And you are happy to repeat allegations that she exchanged sexual favours for political advancement
a situation that only existed due her being parachuted into a safe Labour seat seemingly as reward from popping Euan Blair’s cherry.
Lovely place Corbyn's Labour Party
It’s the kinder, gentler politics...
Oh, and it’s worth remembering that criticism of the State of Israel isn’t anti-Semitism
What about calling someone a "shit stirring Zionist cum bucket"? I'm sure that's just legitimate criticism of Israel as well, right?
Comres had Tories 10pts ahead pre 2017 election.
And they won it. Point?
And they won it. Point?
That Labour made up a lot of ground.
This stuff has been done over and over. Labour didn't win in 2017. We all know that. But equally it was a shock that May lost her majority.
The same arguments for being behind in the polls now are equally suspect.
Done.
Who finished second in the Premiership in 2012?
Or 2005?
Or 2009?
Who ****ing cares?
They lost.
Winner takes all. All that matters is the name that gets engraved on the trophy
So at last dazh admits he is a lexit supporter
Only in your imagination. To be a lexit supporter, you have to support brexit, which I don't. Your assumption that only a centrist labour party can stop brexit is wrong, and it's perfectly possible to achieve left wing aims within the EU.
Who finished second in the Premiership in 2012?
Politics and government isn't a sport. If you're going to use a football analogy though, what you're calling for is for labour to abandon it's principles of playing a patient passing game in favour of a more direct hoof it up to the big man approach in an effort to win at all costs even though the fans are bored rigid.
They lost.
Winner takes all.
The Tories were aiming to increase their majority to push their Brexit through. How's that working out?
Labour didn't win that election, but neither did the Tories
Labour didn’t win that election, but neither did the Tories
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have had a Tory government since 2017, haven't we? Propped up by a bunch of bigoted, creationist fruit-loops with bowler hats on, shouting 'NO SURRENDER!" but a Tory government none the less
Or have I been inhabiting some weird Truman Show type alternative reality where, in the real world, Jeremy won and the UK is now actually a socialist utopia?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but we have had a Tory government since 2017, haven’t we?
Yes but what have they done? Not a lot from what I can see, thanks mostly to the opposition that you always say doesn't exist. The sport analogy is silly. It really isn't winner takes all.
For the last 2 years, the opposition to the Tory Party has been the other half of the Tory Party. The one thats now completely taken over the party and purged the moderates or terrified them into silence.
The labour party has been a total irrelevance during that entire time. It still is. Its spent the last 2 years sat with its thumb up its arse, disconnected and disinterested.
If Corbyn had done what he should have done and resigned two years ago, having lost one election, things might well be different
At least when he loses election number 2, he'll be allowed to retire from the job he never wanted in the first place.
Just a pity that'll leave us poor mugs saddled with 5 years of Dom and Dommer. Still Jezza will get to retire knowing he enabled the Brexit he always wanted
Just a pity that’ll leave us poor mugs saddled with 5 years of Dom and Dommer.
But hey it will be worth if the "moderates" can drag the Labour back rightwards and get rid of those tedious left wing elements to ensure we have a proper choice of politics in the country both appealing to the right wing press barons and the big bribers, sorry, keen believers in supporting parliamentary parties for entirely altruistic reasons.
By the way got your membership yet for the new leadership election you are predicting or are you just going to whine away from the side?
I can't see that happening either. Momentum has its firm grip of the party and when Grandad loses this election they'll just replace him with one of his nodding dogs. It's like the early 80's all over again. That time it took 18 years to get to the point where they were electable again. I hope its not the same this time, for all our sakes, but looking at those with the potential to be anointed by Jezza - for thats what will happen - I'm far from optimistic
But hey it will be worth if the “moderates” can drag the Labour back rightwards and get rid of those tedious left wing elements
To be clear, I'm fine with the current left wing policies, I'm less fine with the membership of the communist party that many of the Labour top team have come from, (i remember all too well the sort of meetings we used to have when the communists would show up, it's one of the reasons I stopped being active in the Labour party) but my main issue is the lack of leadership by Corbyn. I just don't think he inspires leadership, or belief or confidence. His politics, I'm mostly OK with, the fact that he's a hard working constituency MP is to his credit, I don't think however he has what it takes to be the leader of the Labour party or for that matter the PM. I think (like Gordon Brown before him) he's just a bit shit at it, and I don't think that's an unusual view.
We are mostly singing from the same hymn sheet, Id just like to turn the page to the next one (if that doesn't mange to the metaphor too much)
Neither red nore blue have the numbers for a majority government.
In any GE there will have to be a two or three way agreement with the Liberal Democrats. That's just basic maths.
I can't see the Liberal Democrats having any agreement with the Conservatives as they got properly dry humped by the tories in coalition.
That's just basic back of a fag packet maths that all the parties must be acutely aware of.
So what will labour do? Probably nothing whilst corbyn is in charge, and that will just lead to a perpetual hung parliament. That's not helpful to anyone.
Corbyns refused to take a shit, so he needs to get off the potty.
I'll bet the lib dems jump back into bed with the tories if the numbers add up. Swinson is far closer to them than any other party.
They have a lot more in common with Labour's position on brexit than the Tory's.
By the way got your membership yet for the new leadership election you are predicting or are you just going to whine away from the side?
He's a Lib dem supporter now. Though I don't suppose he'll join them, either.
They have a lot more in common with Labour’s position on brexit than the Tory’s.
shame that that's not the only issue of concern...
Which is why we need a referendum before an election.
I‘d like to have a referendum and election on the same day. All parties have to say what they’d do after the event of Leave or Remain as their manifestos. Leavers and Remainers get to vote for the unicorn deal or the deal we have, and then get to vote for the party to lead the country through whatever follows.
[Be a bit of a bummer for the Lib Dems, but hey ho...]
They could make the voting digital and then we could all have a few beers on a Saturday night, then from the comfort of your sofa vote for who the government should be, inny or outy of the EU and who gets to record a christmas number one for Simon Cowell*?
Job jobbed!
The markets move in mysterious ways https://www.hl.co.uk/news/2019/10/16/how-investors-weigh-up-corbyn-and-no-deal-brexit
They also clearly have no idea of what "far left" means. Corbyn is in no way far left.
Ouch!
Let me guess what the response will be
Neither were relevant to why she left the Labour Party, she purely used ‘anti-semitism’ as her excuse. She has form for throwing around claims of anti-semitism when she doesn’t get her own way or feels her opinions are in the minority. It’s quite shameful that she does so with such ease when, in doing so, she actually undermines the fight against true anti-semitism
Perhaps you should read this Daft lad, from the Jewish Voice for Labour? Or are they the wrong kind of Jewish people to listen to?
I think we know where you stand on this
Neither were relevant to why she left the Labour Party, she purely used ‘anti-semitism’ as her excuse. She has form for throwing around claims of anti-semitism when she doesn’t get her own way or feels her opinions are in the minority. It’s quite shameful that she does so with such ease when, in doing so, she actually undermines the fight against true anti-semitism
Is clearly you view for yet another Labour MP, thankfully without the allegations of exchanging sexual favours for political advancement this time
As for the JVL reference, anything that relies on a "detailed investigation by The Canary" as part of it's"evidence" is probably, ever so slightly skewed
I think we know where you stand on this
And it's pretty clear that you're one of these simple folk who can't tell the difference between anti-Zionism, criticism of Israel for its apartheid actions and anti-Semitism.
Daft by name...
AS mainstream in the Labour Party FFS she's off her head. How can you take anything she says seriously when she days that?
anything that relies on a “detailed investigation by The Canary”
Weird that you can say this yet swallow anything written in the Daily Mail 🙂