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The only candidate even remotely acceptable as an interim PM other than Corbyn is Caroline Lucas. If he proposed that I'd support it in a second*. Would anyone else? Even then though, it doesn't solve the problem that once a non-Corbyn PM was in place, labour, tory and libdem MPs would do whatever they could to prevent a new election. If Lucas was PM that would be a major win in my book.
The only candidate even remotely acceptable as an interim PM other than Corbyn is Caroline Lucas.
That will be entertaining as media will have a field day rubbing their hands with glee with so much to write. A good day for all UK reporters perhaps even the world. 😀
I 2nd that. 😆
Even then though, it doesn’t solve the problem that once a non-Corbyn PM was in place, labour, tory and libdem MPs would do whatever they could to prevent a new election
Sorry it sounds like a straw man question but why is that a problem?
For what it's worth I don't think a lucas led government would last more than a few weeks before the lack of party unity collapsed it.
I also can't see the greens' stance on Europe helping get an extension from Brussels rather than it being seen as a chance to get rid of the brexit annoyance and let RoEU get on with life so her simply being given a stay or go choice.
Sorry it sounds like a straw man question but why is that a problem?
It's not a straw man at all. Under current electoral law (the Fixed Parliament Act), an election must be ratified by a 2/3rds majority in the house. When the interim PM calls it, it will be very easy for MPs of various persuasions to muster the 1/3 of votes to defeat the motion. If that happens, there will be no election and the PM will stay in post.
Ian Blackford. Leader of the 3rd party at Westminster. A Remainer who has had a consistent approach to a type of Brexit that might now be seen as sensible. The EU would be happy.
If that happens, there will be no election and the PM will stay in post.
Hang on… so fears of Corbyn “hanging on” as a temporary PM are dispelled with “MPs can just vote him out” but fears of anyone else “hanging on” are well founded?
No time for these games. Get an interim PM that can get cross party support. Seek an extension to A50, call an election, campaign to get as many seats as possible to get your man in as PM. Once A50 is extended the normal VONC process can lead to a general election with a simply majority against any PM… no 2/3 is required.
The only reason why all this interim PM bullshit is required, is because Corbyn wouldn’t call a VONC in time for any new government elected in a general election to stop a No Deal Brexit, and Johnson will not ask for an extension if now forced to resign by VONC. But of course… Swinson is the one playing games…
No time for these games.
You disagree Lucas would be a good compromise? She's trustworthy, she's effectively independent, she's competent, and MPs from all sides of the house could support her without worrying about promoting the opposition. I wonder what Swinson would say to this? I think we probably know.
is because Corbyn wouldn’t call a VONC in time
Still banging that drum? If Corbyn can't win a VONC now what makes you think he could a few weeks ago?
I find it strange that (to my knowledge) no one in the press seems to be talking of other interim leaders other thaqn Corbyn, Clarke or Harman(I'm giving interested politicians the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are being discreet until a plan is in place).
While I conceed a bunch middle-aged bike enthuisastis probably are the finest political brains in the country at present; the fact several people on several threads have said 'what about starmer,' but the press haven't considered such options in opinion pieces is odd.
Under current electoral law
Sorry bad question, yeah I get "she's" there until 2022 unless there's concensus to get rid (though I imagine it would be lack of concensus which onlyto keep her that would see the GE come about.
What I meant was why is not having a GE bad?
The reason it can't be Starmer is that he is a front bencher, has a political future Infront of him and as Shadow Brexit Secretary hardly neutral.
I think when people suggest Starmer it's as next Labour Leader not interim PM
Possibly because Starmer would be seen as a competitor to Corbyn within the Labour Party.
You disagree Lucas would be a good compromise? She’s trustworthy
She’d be top of my list. Common sense would say she would be ideal. No chance of Labour or LibDems backing her though… is there?
Starmer is the candidate that scares none of the horses. Labour don’t feel squeezed out. Pick him. Crack on. Well, unless you think Corbyn would be dead against anyone but himself…
As I said earlier the real issue is that the route to remains is a VONC/A50 extension, then a GE that the 2nd ref parties have to win (taking seats from the Tories) then a 2nd ref.
It's a big call for Tories to not just vote against Johnson, but also their party with a view to it losing the next election. I can't see it making a difference whether it's Corbyn or someone else.
Also, if it's not Corbyn it weakens Labour going into the GE which is an issue if you want a second ref because LDs taking votes of Labour is a best neutral but could help Tories in blue/red marginals
People bang on about the big picture but never quite big enough
What I meant was why is not having a GE bad?
Because without the promise of the new PM being temporary, they'd never agree on one. The whole point is that the new PM is temporary in order to gain the support across parties to win a VONC. It's also a massive compromise from Corbyn to counter fears that he is attempting to use brexit to seize power permanently. The natural solution to all of this is a new election to break the deadlock. Then the people can decide whether they want a party in power which offers a second referendum (labour) and the opportunity to stop brexit, or the tories with their apocalyptic no deal.
Well, unless you think Corbyn would be dead against anyone but himself…
Thing is if Starmer was to be anything but a JC mouth piece he'd be a huge threat to JC's being leader of the Labour Party simply by virtue of public perception, for starters he'd be going into a GE having shown he's capable of achieving consensus in the HoC which a lot of people seriously doubt JC could, even with a significant majority.
If he's seen as just a JC puppet that's worse than JC for everyone else. JC gets credited if all goes well, he's one step removed if it doesn't and you get JC anyway which for various reasons, a lot of MPs vehemently don't want.
So, there’s no one who can be trusted by Labour except Corbyn? Really…?
No one from the labour party has said that at all. Its just Swinson with poor politics and stupid posturing.
I am certain Corbyn would accept another candidate if a concensus one emerged.
You would hope so. I’d like to think the weird “Corbyn is the only way” line was just fan fiction, rather than something firm within the party leadership team… I really hope you are right TJ…
Starmer-S would be a terrific leader (and I hope Momentum get hook-winked and Starmer-S gets it).
...but he's not a suitable Caretaker candidate, it needs a "has-been" or a "never will be" not a direct competitor for Corbyn's job.
No drama there are countless other candidates, and as said up there ^^^^ the Lords is packed full of suitable candidates who pose no threats to the party leaders.
https://order-order.com/2019/08/22/labour-frontbencher-back-ken-clarke-pm/
Oops - not even all of Labour's front bench seem to want Tragic Grandpa to be leader of a "Unity" government.
Because without the promise of the new PM being temporary,
It's a hollow promise, any GoNU prime minister will be serving on borrowed time and relys on a majority vote to prevent a GE. The difficulty if that's corbyn in so much as it requires a promise (or for that matter someone else in Labour) is a VoNC Marks a big change in the ballance of power in Westminster. You can expect deselection dismissals and recalls for some tory rebels at least.
Effectively booting out BJ sees Labour become the biggest voting block in Westminster and the biggest party in all but name. You'd effectively need Labour rebels to remove him via no confidence or a 2/3rd majority for a GE a lot of tories, rebels especially, won't want.
Ian Blackford.
Unlikely to have any effect on the number of Labour or Tory seats in a resultant GE.
Starmer - two issues - he wants to be a future labour leader and this would probably damage his ambitions and the more important he is too inexperienced.
But overall he could well be a good candidate but much better is someone at the other end of their political career
Oops
GF links should always be ignored.
Ian Blackford? He is one who has had his reputation enhanced thru all this nonsense but the most obvious thing about having him would be the apoplexy from both sides of the house.
2/3rd majority for a GE
You do not need this. The normal VONC system can result in a general election if no one can get 1/2 of parliament to back them. It is just that we no have no time for this to play out before we Leave the EU. Once A50 is extended, the house can then force an election just by failing to back anyone to be PM.
I am certain Corbyn would accept another candidate if a concensus one emerged.
He's the bloody leader of the opposition. If he wants this to happen he can suggest a candidate and back them. The others will fall into line or be seen to support Brexit.
The reason he won't is because he's a lifelong Brexiteer and he is loving the Tory party tearing itself apart doing something that will cost them seats and that he wants done. He'd be bloody mad to do anything to interfere with the current trajectory of events.
So, there’s no one who can be trusted by Labour except Corbyn? Really…
I'll assume that's in reply to me. Its not that a labour alternative has to be trusted by Labour, is that you have to be able to sell "why it's not JC it's another labour mp" to the electorate and sell it very quickly, that's a huge ask if that other labour candidate isn't ano hoper and very obviously a sop to the tories.
you have to be able to sell “why it’s not JC it’s another labour mp” to the electorate and sell it very quickly
Explain please… what’s wrong with Labour fighting an election with “the leader that no Tory would back” after someone else did the technical job of getting A50 extended so that election could take place?
the house can then force an election just by failing to back anyone to be PM.
...and one thing we really can rely on the current HOC to do is to fail to agree! 😀 Perhaps the only thing the can be relied on to do.
Sometimes if you lie down in front of an express train it will stop before it goes over the cliff.
More often though you just get squished, even if you are the leader of the opposition.
Its not that a labour alternative has to be trusted by Labour, is that you have to be able to sell “why it’s not JC it’s another labour mp” to the electorate and sell it very quickly,
So your version is Corbyn is effectively forcing Brexit through purely because his career as leader will be damaged if he lets anyone else do the caretaker job. That's pretty cynical. I prefer my guess.
It would not be political suicide for him to step aside for another person as PM in a caretaker government – it would probably play really well as statesman like and selfless.
You can't be serious, this isn't an episode of the West Wing. He'd end up torn apart by his detractors and the media as too weak to lead even a temporary government. I'd bet money it would form the basis of an internal leadership challenge to.
The normal VONC system can result in a general election if no one can get 1/2 of parliament to back them
That's my point, JC can only deliver a GE (as PM) by 2/3rds majority. The house can deliver one by a majority of 1. Who is going to be in a hurry to vote for that in 5 weeks time?
every tory and the dup? If that's even a majority after the rebellion a VonC requires I'd be surprised.
Those tories who rebelled won't be in a hurry to go to the polls unless they're in a staunchly remain seat (think 80+%)
No the only way A JC interim government goes is he resigns as leader/pm or the Labour Party vote him out of office. It would be interesting to see them whip for a VonC against themselves though to fulfil their promise.
fighting an election with “the leader that no Tory would back”
Against the tories (with another new leader since BJ will be gone) pointing out that he's also the leader who robbed "the people of brexit" and didn't back himself to do it? Yeah that'll play well with the red tops.
That’s my point
Sorry @dangeourbrain, I’m not disagreeing with you, I just can’t follow what your point or logic is at all. Please try and explain again…
Nick Boles's take on the altest meeting.
https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1164505982266937344
I’d bet money it would form the basis of an internal leadership challenge to.
Of course it would. Corbyn's opponents are desperate for him to stand aside as it gives them all the ammunition they need to remove him. He's not an idiot, which is why he'll never do this, especially as the main benefactors would be tory moderates and their libdem bedfellows. If it's not to be him, the only possible solution is someone who doesn't threaten his leadership of the party and who isn't a tory. Lucas is the only person who remotely fits that description.
Lucas would be ideal… but there is no chance whatsoever of Corbyn allowing that to happen. Zero. Zilch. Would love to be wrong.
Lucas would be ideal…
The greens are pretty euro sceptic: https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/eu.html I'd have thought they'd want to play the Corbyn game and get the UK out without taking the blame.
Lucas is closer to Corbyn on most policy (apart from Brexit) than a lot of Labour MPs.
Not that either side would admit it as the 2nd ref parties look to take votes off each other rather than the Tories.
Please try and explain again…
Despite his [proffesed] desire to do so, I don't think JC could deliver a GE.
I simply don't think he'd muster the numbers to back a GE and I don't think you'd get half of parliament to vote him out.
(actually the more I think on it, for all the mention of brexiteer corbyn being happy to pin brexit on the tories, JC would be suddenly finding himself being fitted for that very same suit, especially if he won't call a referendum before a GE, it'd be a hard right brexiter wet dream, all corbyn and the left's fault, 0 majority for his government so he can't deliver a single leftist policy, you can keep him there dangling but boot him out the door the minute the job is done and blame everything on him and point out how, given the chance, he didn't deliver a single manifesto promise)
The greens are pretty euro sceptic:
Very true, but they're pro membership. They think it's flawed but better than the alternative and easier to change from the inside.
Corbyn and Labour will be standing on a 2nd ref manifesto. As will LDs, SNP, Green and PC. They need to win seats off the Tories.
As I said above, legislating before a GE for a second ref to happen after a GE is pointless - if the Tories won they would simply legislate to reverse the 2nd ref legislation
Lucas is closer to Corbyn on most policy (apart from Brexit) than a lot of Labour MPs.
Which is precisely why he will not allow her the limelight of being temporary PM… there is a lot of untapped voting potential out there for the Green Party…
I simply don’t think he’d muster the numbers to back a GE
Any temporary PM only needs to agree an A50 extension, and pass legislation for it… after that an election is unavoidable.
I don’t think you’d get half of parliament to vote him out.
Okay, so I still don’t understand. You think that if Corbyn was temporary PM, and had sorted out an A50 extension, Parliament would force him to stay as PM and would support him in a confidence vote? Including Tories and those who left the Labour Party while he was leader?
Which is precisely why he will not allow her the limelight of being temporary PM… there is a lot of untapped voting potential out there for the Green Party…
And zero downside from nominating Ian Blackford as Labour are already a basket case in Scotland and so couldn't lose any seats.