Jeremy Corbyn

I'm liking this kinder, gentler politics. Especially its charming way of describing all dissenters as 'scum'

Are you having a bet to see how much you can contradict yourself or something?

binners - Member

I'm liking this kinder, gentler politics.

Yes I can tell from how restraint your ranting has become.

Your generosity towards those with different opinions to yours is becoming a wonder to behold.

A few weeks ago people who disagreed with you were 'the very worse people on the planet', then they were compared to the Taliban, and now they are only bordering on totalitarianism.

I'm liking this kinder, gentler, binners.

Cheers comrade... altogether now....

Thanks for the heads up Binners - only caught snatches of the BBC coverage - dominated by how much extra tax they can raise. 😯

There is lots of advice for conviction comrades to follow the example of those honest, left wing folk in the SNP. So hmmm, how do we fudge Trident - err we pretend and then adopt "dont ask, dont tell." ditto they pretend they can cut taxes AND increase spending etc. And the public lap this up - lessons learned? Liars win and win handsomely at the moment #posttruthpolitics

Which common room were they in?

they are servants of the people,

😀

just listened
to r5
key issue is ant and dec
apparently

Sorry asked my question and then left for physio....

Surely if we take trident Corbyn was elected leader with his views. He has a massive mandate from the party to stand by his views. Its the rest of the labour MP's who are going against the democratic views of the party.

Remind us what Labour policy is on Trident?

ask one of your well versed employees... i bet at least one of them had a hand in writing it if not in designing trident itself 😛

Surely if we take trident Corbyn was elected leader with his views. He has a massive mandate from the party to stand by his views. Its the rest of the labour MP's who are going against the democratic views of the party.

I'd disagree, I think. Labour MPs were elected by the voters in their constituencies on the basis (ostensibly!) of the party's then manifesto. The party may have changed its view on certain issues, but I think the MPs can stick to the original position for the moment and legitimately claim to be representing the interests of the voters.

Some of the Unions are against Corbyn regards Trident. I think this is where the Labour party is a bit messy in its construct, as its a mix of Unions, MPs and individual members all inputting into policy.

It clearly can't simply be a leader just slamming through policy on everything they personally want, that would be a disaster (and that applies not just for Labour but for any political party).

its a poor argument
The argument that because a minority - few MPS have an absolute majority- voted for you then they agreed with every single part of the parties manifesto is flawed and deeply so- not even the MOS agreed with every single thing in it so what change that all voters did?

The wider debate about whether the MPs serve the constituency or represent the party is interesting as they clearly have to do a bit of both. It would be an interesting debate but pointless to try and do it on here where its all just shitty polemics ,point scoring and trolling.
However if you are in a party and you cannot follow the wishes if the membership re leader then you are really in the wrong party and you need to leave it...you cannot just go i dont represent you i represent the people - if that is the case then become an independent MP and get elected on that mandate.

An interesting debate that wont happen on STW

[url= https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.b67eput13 ]I'd missed the fact that Owen Jones has broken ranks[/url]. Very interesting. Can't say I disagree with much of what he says.

...traitors.........scum

bordering on totalitarian

I think everyone needs to calm down a bit.

I'd disagree, I think. Labour MPs were elected by the voters in their constituencies on the basis (ostensibly!) of the party's then manifesto. The party may have changed its view on certain issues, but I think the MPs can stick to the original position for the moment and legitimately claim to be representing the interests of the voters.

Thats a fair point I suppose. But the same applies to Corbyns vote on the matter.

Remind us what Labour policy is on Trident?

Be ****ed if I know!! What are there current policies on anything? This is why I dont like Corbyn as leader much. He doesnt seem to want to do anything other than preach to the converted.

Be **** if I know!! What are there current policies on anything? This is why I dont like Corbyn as leader much. He doesnt seem to want to do anything other than preach to the converted.

😀

[url= https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/questions-all-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-need-to-answer-b3e82ace7ed3#.toh0elyj3 ]What will you say when?—?whenever you mention anything vaguely left-wing, you’re mocked for the rest of your life, a throwback to the discredited Labour era of the 2010s? Will you just comfort yourself by blaming it on the mainstream media and the PLP? Will that get you through a lifetime of Tory rule? My questions may strike you as unhelpful or uncomfortable. I’m beyond caring. Call me a Blairite, Tory, Establishment stooge, careerist, sellout, whatever makes you feel better.[/url]

Owen Jones. Ah, the Owen Jones who waffles on about being a 'leftie', mentions his 'working class roots' at any opportunity, yet lives in an extremely affluent part of London, eats in expensive restaurants, and lives a lifestyle even I could envy. 😆

I wouldn't pay to much attention to what Owen Jones has to say; We have friends who know Owen Jones. Owen Jones is all about promoting Owen Jones. Claims not to be dictated to by the Guardian (one of his employers), but quickly stepped back into line when his puppet masters told him to. And I could tell you a thing or two about various senior Guardian figures, but it would make Binners cry to realise what duplicitous hypocritical ****s his heroes are. 😉

Owen Jones; the token 'leftie' journalist for the Graun and Indy. Left to prattle on about 'socialism', until the powers that be decided Socialism is evil. Owen Jones, who having a position beneath the top table, to be thrown a few scraps, dangled like a carrot before him, has realised which side his bread is buttered.

Owen Jones, who hasn't yet realised he's been used, played like a penny whistle, and will shortly be discarded like yesterday's chip papers.

No, I wouldn't worry about what Owen Jones has to say. Chiefly because he's not really saying anything.

Owen Jones. Ah, the Owen Jones who waffles on about being a 'leftie', mentions his 'working class roots' at any opportunity, yet lives in an extremely affluent part of London, eats in expensive restaurants, and lives a lifestyle even I could envy

ah, the Daily Mail's favourite ad hom tactic.

Frankly clodhopper, if you can't prove that you live in a cave, eat gruel, and walk 13 hours uphill each way to work in the pit, you have no business commenting on the left either.

So Owen Jones is part of the right wing conspiracy against the glorious leader now too? Along with private Eye and those right wing zealots like Ian Hislop

Is there anyone not on 'The List' they're drawing up in the bunker?

oxford luvvie hislop?
vanguard
of the revolution?
hardly

So if you've had an education that enables you to more than count to ten, and you don't live under a railway bridge, then you're part of the problem?

#prolierthanthou

Sraw man re Hislop - he said he as not the vanguard of the left
TBH he is pretty much centre ground intellectual left at best. We all know this hence you made up an argument and then beat this
WTF IS THIS THREAD- honestly folk its ****ing embarrassing that we "debate" like this
FFS i even want Jamby back to raise the tone to more rational seas

ah, the Daily Mail's favourite ad hom tactic.

Binners FFS change the record will you- the same tired cliches and memes all the time- they only serve to highlight your hysteria is much higher than the facts you have to support it
Smoke a fag...possibly one of alpins 😉

We have friends who know Owen Jones. Owen Jones is all about promoting Owen Jones. Claims not to be dictated to by the Guardian (one of his employers), but quickly stepped back into line when his puppet masters told him to. And I could tell you a thing or two about various senior Guardian figures, but it would make Binners cry to realise what duplicitous hypocritical **** his heroes are.

Jesus, you really are barking aren't you! I'm beginning to think you're Jamba or ninfan in agent provocateur guise. I can only hope that you're very young, so that when you get older and wiser you can look back on this paranoid conspiratorial rubbish and laugh at it. If you're for real though, congratulations on confirming to me that the swivel-eyed socialist worker brigade haven't changed much since the mid-90s when I often had the pleasure of engaging with them.

"ah, the Daily Mail's favourite ad hom tactic.

Frankly clodhopper, if you can't prove that you live in a cave, eat gruel, and walk 13 hours uphill each way to work in the pit, you have no business commenting on the left either."

I live in a very affluent part of London, enjoy quinoa (pronounced 'keen-wah' of course), don't actually have to work for a living, and see Owen Jones eating in the same places I do.* 😀

I don't see why I can't comment on the left. And I'm not saying Owen Jones shouldn't, just that his work is all about promoting his own career. He has to pay that ridiculously high mortgage somehow! 😆

*This doesn't tell the whole story; there are many differences between me and Owen Jones, which I won't get into on here. But I am qualified sufficiently to call him an arriviste, and a lifestyle lefty, because that's what he is.

"I can only hope that you're very young, so that when you get older and wiser you can look back on this paranoid conspiratorial rubbish and laugh at it."

I would laugh, were it not actually true.

You accuse me of being 'barking'. I'll let you off that, as neither you, nor anyone else, know anything about me, who I mix with, or anything else. 😉

Well done clod, you illustrated Owen Jones' points perfectly!

[I am far from a fan of his, but that was one of his more considered articles hence i posted the link many ages ago]

Binners - enjoy the desires to suppress dissent #gentlertotalitarianism, #traitorsinthenest, #cuckoo

Well that always makes perfect sense. Its always those comfortably insulated from the disastrous financial effects of it that generally gob off about radical left wing politics.

Anyway... back to the common room...

Like owen or like clod- Like you are being even handed here 😕
OH and is that post not#prolierthanthough?

FOlk could type anything here and the other side will just have a go- it's irrational pish this thread - wehn exactly did it stop pretending to be a debate and just be about hurling lazy insults?
- nod to Daz who is at least trying...but that is bloody stupid of you 😉

"but that was one of his [s]more considered articles[/s] hastily attempted placation of those who pay his wages and warned him of not biting the hand that feeds him "

I believe the appropriate acronym here, is 'FTFY'. 😉

If you really don't believe that, then you truly don't know just how politics works! 😆

@Junkyard; it's ok, I expect nothing else from Binners. We know he's incapable of actually speaking out publicly, when given the opportunity, and is limited just to ranting online. It's always those who lack the courage of their convictions to speak openly to their peers, who need to resort to attacking others from behind the convenient cloak of anonymity.

If you really don't believe that, then you truly don't know just how politics works!

How naive of us. The trouble is, unless you're prepared to explain just what special insight you have from the exalted 'in the know' position you imply you have, then really it doesn't mean anything.

At what point does this silly game of I'm-more-leftwing-than-you stop?

"The trouble is, unless you're prepared to explain just what special insight you have from the exalted 'in the know' position you imply you have, then really it doesn't mean anything."

I already have. 🙄

"At what point does this silly game of I'm-more-leftwing-than-you stop?"

I don't know; Binners might have the answer to that one*.

*Don't hold your breath; he hasn't so far come up with any other answers to anything. 😆

2020?

S'funny to see the STW lefties turn on Owen Jones as a bourgeoise class traitor.

Not long back when I pointed out that multi-millionaires like Charlotte Church and Lily Allen were fine ones to preach about poverty the same characters were up in arms...

"S'funny to see the STW lefties turn on Owen Jones as a bourgeoise class traitor."

Only you've labelled him as such. No-one else.

I think you, and others, have missed the point that Owen Jones has a vested interest in maintaining his lifestyle and mortgage payments. And his possible future career (maybe as Guardian editor? 😉 ). Hence his attempts to distance himself from Corbyn (yet retain his 'lefty' credentials), and hold onto his very lucrative 'journalism' career. Those who we know who know him, have learned this about him, and see through the earnest, eloquent 'right on' image he has so carefully cultivated. I have no issue with him wanting to have a home, career and decent lifestyle. I just see him for what he is, an arriviste.

I don't see why I can't comment on the left. And I'm not saying Owen Jones shouldn't, just that his work is all about promoting his own career.

I was being flippant to illustrate the silliness of such ad hom attacks.

You have every right to comment on the left, just as OJ does. And you have just as much right to be taken seriously as he does.

The tactic of shouting someone down based on their lifestyle is one commonly used by the right (especially the Mail et al) to deride the left: if you're not poor you can't discuss working class issues, if you don't give all your money away then you can't suggest higher tax/investment, if you love socialism so much why don't you go and live in North Korea.

It's dangerous and reductive at best, and when the left joins in it's self-defeating too, IMO

I think you, and others, have missed the point that Owen Jones has a vested interest in maintaining his lifestyle and mortgage payments.

"The tactic of shouting someone down based on their lifestyle is one commonly used by the right "

Well, Owen Jones speaks of the need to address th housng crisis, yet chose to buy a very expensive property in an area where many traditional locals are bing forced out by skyrocketing prices.

“What is unfair at the moment is if you’re rich and you happen to live in an area which is very desirable, you will accrue a huge amount of wealth, not for your own efforts, because you’re living in a very desirable area.

Whilst if you’re a private renter, which there are now 11 million, your rents are being hiked up. If you want a council house, you’re languishing on a social housing waiting list, five million in that position now. "

Hmm, what was it that attracted you to the idea of buying a property in an area with rapidly rising property values, Owen? And what is it, that is driving up rents in such areas?

The facts speak for themselves. I have no need to 'attack' Owen Jones. He exposes his own hypocrisy all by himself.

I think he's renting? He said so on question time not long ago.

Well, Owen Jones speaks of the need to address th housng crisis, yet chose to buy a very expensive property in an area where many traditional locals are bing forced out by skyrocketing prices

Maybe he favours addressing it by building more homes rather than voluntary sacrifice.

A huge amount of hot air generated by very poor thinking on this thread. Bit like politics in general, really.

The facts speak for themselves. I have no need to 'attack' Owen Jones. He exposes his own hypocrisy all by himself.

Would give his views more credence if he, perhaps, lived in a cave? And ate gruel? 😉

You must be made aware of the new rules of the kinder, gentler politics Doris. The Rules that owen so pathetically fails to measure up too. Now that everyones credentials have to be approved from the Momentum Committee in the Bunker, take the test comrades...

[img] [/img]

it wont become any funnier or insightful even if you post it again

And ate gruel?

Luxury.

On the contrary JY old boy, given the nonsense spouted on here since this morning regarding 'traitors' and 'scum' from our resident Momentum cheerleader, it perfectly illustrates that its absolutely bang on in illustrating the ridiculous mentality of The Faithful. I mean...seriously... Owen Jones as part of some 'right wing plot'?Get a grip FFS! It takes bunker-mentality paranoia to an even more absurd level. Who'd have even imagined that was possible?

He is the mirror of you binners.

Yeah, but at least I've the self-awareness to know I'm a ****ing idiot comrade!

Well if you have the self awareness don't moan when other people are doing the same as you.