[Closed] It may have hit the fan in Ukraine - passenger jet shot down

Plane definitely down, very sad as all aboard are lost, bit too early to confirm it's been shot down but Russian's seem to be suggesting so

Oh no. 🙁

ignore me, I can't read headlines apparently

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28345039

And then

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856

Looks like the same incident but possibly initially thought to be a fighter jet not a passenger plane...

[url= http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board ]Correct URL[/url]

I saw the other bbc one earlier but poster above must be right !

Whether it was shot down or an aviation accident very sad news either way for the loss of the pasengers.

Will have been a tragic year for Malaysian Airlines too what with the loss of their other aircraft.

Looks like the same incident but possibly initially thought to be a fighter jet not a passenger plane...

I must say I saw the first headline and just assumed military, very odd if that's not the case, surely if Ukraine were accusing them of shooting down a plane they would know if it was military or civilian?

Russian sources saying it was Ukranian missile.

As per link above it was an Amsterdam to KL flight

Rebels in eastern Ukraine say they shot down two Su-25 jets on Wednesday.

Quote from BBC report.

One Su-25, One airliner?

EDIT: Wondering how commercial traffic could be anywhere near airspace in which rebels are known to be regularly taking potshots using ground to air weaponry?

Sadly, there's maybe been the assumption that the rebels have not much in the way of military training, and no access to higher tech, high altitude missiles, so high-level flights may still have been operating.

According to the Telegraph, someone downed a Ukranian transport from 21,000ft three days ago, something which had escaped my attention.

Tensions have been high in the last few days with the Ukranians suspecting Russians of shooting down their planes (EDIT: @martin yes that's the same incident). Rebels typically don't have higher altitude surface to air missiles, only government forces.

@FF Separate incidents. The Su25 was alegedly shot down this morning, the Malaysian jet only left AMS after midday.

The UK Foreign Office said it was aware of the reports of the crash and was "urgently working to establish what has happened".

You can watch the track on planefinder disappear around 13.10 😮

I wonder what's going to happen in Gaza during the next 24 hours now the world's collective eye has been drawn elsewhere.

Some may see it as a good day to behave in ways they don't want to be noticed too much?

Sad news 🙁

Are Malaysian Airlines jinxed then at the moment?

Sky quoting a Ukranian source that it was a Buk missile, these are launched off the back of a armoured vehicle.

A flight from Holland is going to have been full of holiday makers, very sad.

Anton Herashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying the plane had been hit by a missile at an altitude of 10,000m (33,000ft). The claim could not be verified independently.

I have to ask though, why would an airliner fly over a warzone? Or even a potential warzone?

..some bloke on BBC World was wondering about this, basically said the plane shouldnt have been there.

Dammit! Not another M'sia airline ...

I will fly pass Ukraine airspace in mid August to KL then to fly M'sia airline for further connecting flight.

Damn! Very bad publicity for M'sia airline because the other local airline is not one I will fly that often ...

RIP passengers.

😐

Edit: if they shoot me down I will come back as one of the 3 horsemen of apocalypse ... with black death. 😈

I just found myself thinking for a minute what it would be like to be aboard a passenger airliner struck by a missile in mid air, and not die instantly..

Awful awful awful.
What is going on?

What is going on?

on BBC now as well. Bloody hell..... fubar

If the aircraft was shot down by Russia, the consequences will be incredibly far reaching.

I think it might be the end of Malaysia Airlines now after losing two aircraft within a matter of months.

RIP the poor folk onboard 🙁

If the aircraft was shot down by Russia, the consequences will be incredibly far reaching.

Or they'll just hang the poor bastard who pushed the button out to dry and carry on regardless. 🙁

At the moment both sides are blaming the other but you would assume that the eyes of the world are very much on that region due to the ongoing conflict – surely there must be a spy satellite somewhere that has tracked events?

The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired.

From the BBC.

But that is after the fact (that technology is claiming to be searching for traces of plumes left in the atmosphere after firing), surely they were watching anyway?

wwaswas - Member
Malaysian passenger jet reportedly shot down.

[tinfoilhat]
No one making the obvious link with the previous Malaysian plane?
[/tinfoilhat]

Can a plane really be shot down by a surface missle at 30k+ feet?

Honest question

[tinfoilhat]
No one making the obvious link with the previous Malaysian plane?
[/tinfoilhat]

Can a plane really be shot down by a surface missle at 30k+ feet?

Honest question

Apparently so, from a BUK mounted vehicle

6 miles isn't it so I guess in the grand scheme of things, its not too far for a missile to travel.

What they thought a plane at 30k ft was a risk to them for though, I've no idea. Its not going to be dropping bombs from that height...

Can a plane really be shot down by a surface missle at 30k+ feet?

Honest question

Ro5ey

Yup pretty easily too. It's only 6ish miles and a StA missle is very capable of doing so especially a slow, steady target like an airliner.

Target engagement zone

aircraft

altitude – 15 m – 25 km
range – 3–42 km

TBM

altitude – 2.0–16 km
range – 3–20 km

sea targets – up to 25 km
land targets – up to 15 km.

Grim news.

Point made on BBC that the rebels have no air capability, so why would the Ukrainians be using StA missiles...

so why would the Ukrainians be using StA missiles...

[Tinfoilhat] They're pissed off at the Russians for knocking down their planes, and this is a good way of stopping them? [/Tinfoilhat]

slimjim78
I just found myself thinking for a minute what it would be like to be aboard a passenger airliner struck by a missile in mid air, and not die instantly..

Assuming you survived the explosion and subsequent high speed disintegration of the airframe, at FL300, the partial pressure of the atmosphere is only around 22kPa. Assuming you were fit, healthy, and not agitated (!) you'd have around 30sec of consciousness before you passed out.

In reality, there is a very high probability you'd be knocked unconscious very quickly by the G forces caused by the ejection from the remains of the airframe.

Whilst old tech IR "heat seeking" Ground To Air missiles would struggle to hit a passenger jet (because they use cool high bypass ratio turbofans, not "hot" turbo jets), the more modern radar guided missiles would have no problem, especially as in "Military" terms the ~550KTS cruising speed of the airliner is pretty slow.

However, it should also have been completely obvious from the size of the radar return that the target was not a military jet......... ;-(

Terrible 🙁

[img] [/img]

I reckon you'd be killed instantly or at least stunned by a 500mph blast of -80C air tbh.

Theory i have heard is that its pro russian rebels who have been given buk missiles by russian military. Same rebels who shot down ukranian cargo plane at 21,000ft two days ago

I recommend people steer clear of twitter to read up about this. Some pretty horrible photos popping up on there 🙁

Terribly sad, my thoughts are with the families 🙁