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To be a community we should act like one. Perhaps instead of ignoring bad threads, maybe we should comment on them and point out when they are wrong
I always point out Geetees glaring misogyny, doesn't stop him endlessly posting the same crap though....
then a day or two ago I saw somebody moaning about a misogynistic use of the word ‘jugs’.
Yep, that was me. It was misogynistic and no need for it.
As an example of the change in po-faced-ness(?) we used to have a “Friday Kylie” thread, then somebody complained and we had “Aesthetic and Athletic” instead, obviously that got shitcanned at some point, then a day or two ago I saw somebody moaning about a misogynistic use of the word ‘jugs’.
Sounds like progression tbh
stw is increasingly not one of them and you continually trying to make it so is becoming the loud bore in the pub, you’re generally welcome and tolerated but sometimes you need to be reminded there are other customers who may not wanting your views shouted across the room for the whole evening.
I get the pub analogy, but I do wish Jordan Peterson would simply get the message that he's not welcome in the public bar and stop posting here. Just saying.
So - the OP starts a thread about feeling alienated & hurt then everyone starts arguing about it. Classic STW.
For the record, I hope nothing I have posted has caused hurt & if it has I unreservedly apologise.
I shall be more mindful before posting on what are seen to be sensitive topics.
cinnamon_girl
Yep, that was me. It was misogynistic and no need for it.
I didn't say I disagreed with you. I was merely using your post as an example of this forum becoming generally more moralistic.
I think most people are arguing in the OP's favour but yes - I think a bit more general 'if someone typed that about me/my gender/race/etc how would I feel if I wasn't a thick skinned so and so' is probably a good thing.
🙂 I don’t dare – have you seen scanners? Boom and TJ has no head
Have you considered some sort of protective headwear? If not for you, then those around you!
Don't think we've ever met but I'm sad to read this place has upset you. Unfortunately the internet forums attract some idiots and they feel comfortable behaving badly. I hope you find strength to rise above and see more positives from others.
I didn’t say I disagreed with you. I was merely using your post as an example of this forum becoming generally more moralistic.
That's cleared that up then! Wouldn't say it's become more moralistic, Friday Kylie was shelved many years ago and feel there's a recognition that it's not acceptable these days. Added to which there's always been ladies on here, not many mind, but this type of stuff is really offputting.
Especially when it is causing pain to someone?
As I have said and as others have pointed out (even the ones who have been deeply at odds with me), nothing I've written has been anything other than entirely supportive of trans issues.
Not that I disagree with the sentiment but is "don't be a dick" the best phraseology for this subject?
Ere’s a thing- why don’t people make themselves a little rule for if they see a thread started that may upset them - Report it, ignore it.
I saw one of those technicallyinepts clockbait threads with no replies dropping down the page. Oh good I thought, as my old mum used to say about my little brother ‘ignore him and he’ll go away’. But no, someone has to reply, next thing you know multiple lazy link threads, arguments... etc
Even within a thread, ignore them and what they gonna do, keep posting the same shite? Anyway, works for me. 🤪
ignore them and what they gonna do, keep posting the same shite?
Well, yeah. That’s pretty
Much what he does isn’t it ?
Peterson is not respected by any respected thinkers.
sources ? or have you just made that up ?
I suspect many of the chat threads with social/political issues will offend someone. I would suggest that if you see a thread that is likely to upset you: Don’t read it.
I suspect many of the chat threads with social/political issues will offend someone. I would suggest that if you see a thread that is likely to upset you: Don’t read it.
How about when you a see a thread about a topic that’s been a massive part of your life, so obviously you read it, and then Alpin tries his best to offend followed by a lame “I’m sorry if that’s offensive, but it’s true”
Should you then “unread it” and pretend it didn’t happen ?
Well done OP, please keep calling out things that are offensive. We all get it wrong sometimes but if the majority are helped to get it right more often hopefully you'll feel more included.
Should you then “unread it” and pretend it didn’t happen ?
I think you read it and then reflect and perhaps draw some insight from it. I have felt as Rachel has eloquently articulated in her original post, as a result of some of the things I've revealled about myself and the responses that have ensued. I don't feel hurt by those responses, but I often have felt frustrated and angry that they belittle my views and experiences.
But honest to goodness I always still take away from this forum that my knowledge, understanding and tolerance of the world is better for it. Perhaps that is why I am so dogmatic about making my points here - I care about them, but i also know I am going to be royally challenged on them and I have genuinely changed my thinking as a result of reading posts here (for example, I ended up voting Labour in the last election in part based on the poltical posts made here).
I think now is a good time for a reminder that, despite its apparent advantages of some level of anonymity, the flipside of forums is that the posts are there. Forever. In black and white.
In all honesty, there are a few posts I have made where I wince on rereading them. There were also plenty of others that never made it to air.
I have always tried to abide by rule number one, and also to not post (particularly direct responses) that I wouldn’t be prepared to say face-to-face. Sometimes I have let myself down. I will probably do so again.
To Rachael. Sorry that you got to the point where your OP to this thread became necessary. I hope that no one actually set out with the intention of hurting you. If they did, then shame on them.
Dan
I saw one of those technicallyinepts clockbait threads with no replies dropping down the page. Oh good I thought, as my old mum used to say about my little brother ‘ignore him and he’ll go away’. But no, someone has to reply, next thing you know multiple lazy link threads, arguments… etc
The only thread you could be referring to is the one on silencing of free speech.
Just because you don't give a shit, don't think it's true, doesn't mean it's not true.
If you bothered to watch the short (30 minute) BBC panorama documentary on trans kids earlier this week, you would have seen one of the two trans kids featured acknowledge that gender critical people are scared to speak up.
The panorama episode crams a lot in but is worth a watch.
Well, at least this thread hasn’t sucked itself down the argumentative plughole of life eh.
I’m glad the topic has been brought up, glad there are differing opinions from all sides of life and our own distinct personalities.
We live in a world that’s rapidly changing socially and morally, we have to accept every argument and provided there is rational thought and morltivation the through flow of conversation should exist, and be encouraged.
Whatever the social stratosphere we proclaim to be our own, there are others who equally live in the other spheres than ours.
STW is a broad church IMO, the old analogy of it being a pub has dissolved into times past and entered a more school room debating chamber. This I’m not so keen on TBH. There seems to be only one point of view allowed to be debated, and those who dare to contravene any unwritten rules of topic quickly pushed out or played out like a goaded puppet.
We have lost some very prolific posters of old, these have been replaced by a new bread and we need to accommodate and accept that thier opinion is not “the rule” but just an opinion, just like mine and yours.
We aren’t wedded to this place, it really is a very small part of this world we live in.
geetee1972
Member
Especially when it is causing pain to someone?
As I have said and as others have pointed out (even the ones who have been deeply at odds with me), nothing I’ve written has been anything other than entirely supportive of trans issues.
You have been called out as upsetting and offending people many times but you continue to do it. You have been asked to stop making such contentious( at best) statements but you insist you will continue. Racheal mentioned you by name as one of the people posting stuff that upset her but you continue to insist that you have done nothing wrong and that you will continue to post your viewpoint even when you know it upsets people.
How about showing a little respect and stop posting your misogynistic nonsense all the time.
How about when you a see a thread about a topic that’s been a massive part of your life, so obviously you read it
Then you ought to be aware that the subject does not carry a unanimity of opinion. Some of it is bound to upset you. If it does then why read it?
replaced by a new bread
It’s always a pitta when that happens.
Sorry.
🤣👍
Well spotted, to late to edit 🤷♂️
I’m sorry to hear you were upset by the forum, Rachel.
To respond to the various comments on here about whether the community is going downhill or not, in some ways at least, things are improving. Ages ago there was a discussion about gender and sport, and I was in a tiny minority of people standing up for Caster Semenya. A similar thread more recently had more balance, I felt.
Should you then “unread it” and pretend it didn’t happen ?
Obviously you can't unread it. But yeah, it's just the opinion of some pillock on the internet. So forget it.
(said the middle-aged-white-bloke)
"Discrimination is not just hate. It's apathy. It's indifference. It's ignorance. It's power. It's privilege..."
To paraphrase Scott Woods lists on racism.
@allthegear I am sorry about last night, I also found some of the comments to be ignorant at best and highly inflammatory, bigoted and extremely insensitive at their worst. I understand that @cougar was trying to point that out to @alpin, although the example chosen is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 as are you. I was appalled that the comments were allowed to stand despite being previously challenged by other members of the forum, it took the threat of emailing cycling UK and other organisations to have it removed. Even then I was subjected vilification for pointing it out. I did report as many of alpin's posts as I could bear reading, with the hope that STW would read through the rest.
It is obvious that the majority of the members who comment on these threads have highly ignorant and bigoted views, which is sadly a reflection of the society we live in. It is not one I wish to be part of and in challenging it I have been ostracised from my community and by people whom I thought were friends. I joined this forum in the hope of at least learning how to maintain my bike and perhaps meet up with a few of you for a ride. Last night I was close to deleting my account, however there was a few brave souls who were also prepared to challenge and 2 kind people pm'd me.
@allthegear I'm sorry I did not challenge @alpin and others on their views on gender, I opened the thread to see N* and jumped on it. I thought I'd strayed on to 4chan.
It's obvious that people need clearer guidance on what is and isn't acceptable on a public forum, this is not your selected friends on fb and is open to everyone. People's insensitive, ignorant and vile comments not only reflects badly on themselves but on cycling, STW and those who are members of it.
I have decided to email cycling organisations and the Equality and Human Rights Commission to raise awareness and for guidance and support on these issues
To have it suggested that I have upset you Rachel by being trans phobic is not something I can accept.
The thing is, it is not up to you to accept it. It happened. Time to be reflective, not defensive.
The problem with rule #1 is that the people who break it just can't see what they are doing. You have evidenced this beautifully.
Oh and also - send them a PM if it bugs you that much. Report it, don't bump the thread and send them a PM (like Woppit did me when I hurt his lickle feelings with a misdirected joke. But yeah, I got the message (literally and figuratively))
How about showing a little respect and stop posting your misogynistic nonsense all the time.
OK, what have I ever said that was 'misogynistic'? I accept that there is this general view that I am, but refusing to accept that we live in a patriarchy doesn't make me misogynistic. Similarly, articulating the empirically demonstrated fact that women tend to be more prone to trait neuroticism while men tend to be less agreeable in nature is also pretty far from misogynistic. I know I've also been critical of the way misleading statistics have been used to vastly inflate the problems of sexual harrasment and assualt. I've never said these things don't happen, but I have said that I think a political agenda is being waged to artificially inflate these data.
These are the three things I believe have led to my being labelled a 'misogynist'. If you think these statements constitute misogny then that's your opinion; I don't agree with it but I respect your view.
It is obvious that the majority of the members who comment on these threads have highly ignorant and bigoted views,
“The majority”
Really?
The thing is, it is not up to you to accept it. It happened. Time to be reflective, not defensive.
Except it didn't; I have not been transphobic under any circumstances.
My closest and most dear friend is trans and I've been on a pretty challenging journey supporting her at every point in her transition from male to female.
I've spent a good deal of time working with trans individuals to tell their story photographically
I've spoken up for trans individuals in many instances and situations including this forum.
So don't give me this 'it's not your lived experience, it's not up to you' repetoire; the accusation is just not true.
Except it didn’t; I have not been transphobic under any circumstances.
Is that the only way a trans person could possibly be offended do you reckon ?
Something worth considering.
TJ I think you are probably one of the last people who should be throwing stones.
Geetee - you were named "I have been reduced to tears on multiple occasions reading the comments of some users who seem to be prolific recently, people like rene59, technicallyinept and geetee1972."
You have caused offence and upset. Accept that you have. Stop denying it and saying you are not transphobic or misogynistic. Whether you think you are or not you have been named as one of the people who have caused upset and distress.
Reflect on why this is and why so many of us call you out on your misogyny
Geetee has (not unreasonably) asked for evidence/examples of transphobia in his postings. If it's that prolific it should only take a minute or so to find a few examples, and then this can be put to bed.
This is my second post on this thread. I have continued to read since my first and I am trying to decide if the wolf pack hounding of certain individuals, leading to one of them at least feeling they should leave the forum for good, is tantamount to bullying. It certainly seems like it. While they may have offended people they have not broken any laws or any forum rules that I am aware of, and if they had then surely it's for the mods to deal with and not a group of users with pitchforks?
Is that the only way a trans person could possibly be offended do you reckon ?
No of course not but it is what was suggested and I will not let that suggestion stand. That would be like me accusing TJ of being a despotic right wing facist.
If someone is going to be reduced to tears by my challenging the idea that there is such a thing as 'patriarchy' well then seriously that is there problem and I will not apologise for it nor feel remorse for saying it. But we all know that that's not what reduced the OP to tears.
Sorry, it was a mistake to identify individuals as part of my OP. All it did was cause them to feel the need to (incorrectly) jump on the defence.
For the record, geetee1972, it wasn’t your comments on trans people I was upset by but your continual drip, drip issues with women in general. Can you not see how that might make the small number of women we do get on this forum feel excluded and unwelcome? Really?
The irony that a number of people have said I should report posts I don’t like is high right now, especially as on Mobile Safari the report link doesn’t actually do anything...
Whether or not upset has been caused is not in question; it has. Repeatedly and to the point where it leaves a feeling of “why bother”.
Thank you to those that have reached out personally. I know there are some amazing forum members in here.
Rachel
Sorry, it was a mistake to identify individuals as part of my OP
No it wasn't. They only would've been named later by others.
Those 2 idiots are wrong to make this into a bickering thread, but you weren't wrong.
Is that the only way a trans person could possibly be offended do you reckon ?
No of course not but it is what was suggested and I will not let that suggestion stand
Not suggested by the op at all actually.
Just “comments” no specifics at all.
The fact that you can’t accept that you have caused offence is pretty sad really, considering you were named specifically.
Edit- crosses posts with the op above.
it took the threat of emailing cycling UK and other organisations to have it removed
Well, no, it took me raising the issue with the rest of the team and asking them to review the thread and make a judgement in the context of my position as a user to have it removed. The owners of STW then intervened and made the call on our behalf. Threats had nothing to do with it, and indeed, most probably have had the opposite effect. People make threats quite often, it very rarely has the result they intended.
It is obvious that the majority of the members who comment on these threads have highly ignorant and bigoted views,
Yeah, no. It's a very small but very vocal minority. We have a couple of bellends on the forum (who frankly after discussions today are on borrowed time).