nukeproofriding - reported for being inflammatory.
It would appear that left wing gobshites are under threat of a permanent ban and right wing ones are tolerated
Junkyard you don't seem to be partisan with who you have a go at.
Does seem to be a bit of "Jew" bashing theme running through these threads though imo
I kinda had enough after the last one but what you're saying doesn't hold. Most of the anti-zionist (including me in the last marathon thread) posters have stated over and over that they're not anti-jew, merely anti-zionist and anti-lots of Israeli policies, none of which will ever lead to peace.
Branding someone anti-Jew just because he or or she doesn't really fancy Israel much is a bit unfair (and controversial).
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Does seem to be a bit of "Jew" bashing theme running through these threads though imo
🙄
Find me one quote in any of these threads where anyone has criticised Jews, as opposed to Zionists or the state of Israel. Despite repeated attempts to conflate the two, they aren't one and the same.
Junkyard you don't seem to be partisan with who you have a go at.
Well, given that he is one of the new focus points for the right wing trolls, Zulu in particular, since TJ got the boot and ernie stopped posting (though I see he's back, welcome ernie 🙂 hope you're back for a while), I think he remains remarkably calm when goaded.
DD that doesn't really address my point but the way he deals with clowns like Zulu is counter productive IMO, give Zulu enough rope and he always hangs himself.
Most of the anti-zionist ... posters have stated over and over that they're not anti-jew
Well, I lolled.
Well, I lolled.
I should know better really...
But, at what?
given that he is one of the new focus points for the right wing trolls, Zulu in particular, since TJ got the boot and ernie stopped posting
As predicted by TJ on his banning FWIW
Pig face I am not sure what your point is tbh
Re the thread Suggesting anyone who dislikes Israel's actions is a jew hating racist is just stupid
Perhaps all the Israels are arab haters given they dislike Iran? [ they are not is just an example of a stupid argument]
I dislike Chinas human rights record and saudi arabias [ amongst other arab/islamic countries] treatment of women so I must be really racist or perhaps there are some principles i view these countries as violating.
The racism argument is not even worth debating on theses threads
chewkw - Member
So where is the Pharaoh when you need him eh?
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This guy?
Best we keep out of it and let it take its course rather than the endless cycle of tit for tat killings
It would certainly be interesting to see what would happen were the US to withdraw its support for Israel. It's undoubtedly been one of the biggest factors in prolonging the problem.
Obama's just been re-elected, and is in his last term as Prez. Hope he decides to do the right thing.
I fear the outcome if the USA was either behind lsrael or stayed out of it would be the same. A badly trained and equipped Arab army up against a ell trained and motivated army with the best weapons available. Only one winner (if that is the correct term). The USA for all its faults also restrains the lsrael. No winners in this one l'm afraid
Dont think anyone is being anti-jew, my issue is very much with the regime in the same way various other regimes havent been that constructive. It doesnt mean we hate the people it just means enough is enough on how they act - look at gaddafi, doesnt mean we hate Libyans, look at the taliban, doesnt mean we hate afghanis, looks at george bush, doesnt mean we hate americans, look at the regime in North Korea, doesnt mean we hate north koreans. What is does mean is something is out of kilter in the ideals the regimes in power hold and change would be beneficial but this problem is down to those in power than the majority of people living there.
Does seem to be a bit of "Jew" bashing theme running through these threads though imo
Suggesting anyone who dislikes Israel's actions is a jew hating racist is just stupid
Does the first quote really do what the second quote suggests it does?
Grum on the last closed thread ,one post read "what shall we do with the Jewish problem" .when in our history have we heard that? If anyone posted on here what shall we do with the black problem there would be out cry and rightfully so. I called no one racist ,but l do stand by what l said. Debate is great ,just chose your words wisely is the point l was trying to make
when the zionists have been removed from 'power' , by their own people, only then will any meaningful peace process begin. A regime that relies on militaristic conflict in order to survive does not have many options.
Only when the majority of israelis have realised that Zionism is not in their interests can any progress be possible.The fact that it suits the US to have israel serving on its behalf in the region is no help.
History shows that things can change very quickly,what appear as immovable objects become illusory tricks, so while it may appear to be a hopeless situation, it never is .
Now , as well as not looking like the sharpest tool, you also seem to have a poorly developed character as well- GO you.
That's an interesting way of saying how angry you are that I dare have a differing opinion. Grow up will you? Your pompous, hedonistic, high and mighty ego comes across even on an internet forum.
Stop shooting down peoples opinions when they posit perfectly logical intelligent arguments simply because you disagree with them. I am not 'stupid' because you disagree with me. Ok?
I reacted angrily to the comment that said "all zionist's deserve what's coming to them". No one can deny just how off key that is, and it disgusted me. You should be disgusted for trying to pass it off as an acceptable comment, just because the poster was arguing the same point as you.Re the thread Suggesting anyone who dislikes Israel's actions is a jew hating racist is just stupid
Im out.
Im out.
Of Palestine?
Of Palestine?
What? If you're going to accuse me of something at least be man enough to actually accuse me of it.
Lets be honest the whole region is a ****ing mess.
The difficulty is that disparate problems and issues get conflated due to reasons of history and prejudice on both sides.
Take Israel and Iran. Personally I don't find it difficult to support Israel's position on Iran. A nuclear armed neighbour on your doorstep who doesn't like you very much is not something any of us would like to contemplate (and yes I know the only nuclear armed state in the region is actually Israel)
Israel and Palestine is a separate issue and here its difficult to side with the Israelis. The conflict is hugely asymmetric - just look at the casualties on either side whenever the conflict heats up. There seems to be a determined land grab by Israeli settlers despite this being one of the main stumbling blocks to peace negotiations with the Palestinians.
To be honest Israel's actions and their attitude towards the whole process suggests they aren't interested in peace negotiations as they feel that they are winning.
Take Israel and Iran. Personally I don't find it difficult to support Israel's position on Iran. A nuclear armed neighbour on your doorstep who doesn't like you very much is not something any of us would like to contemplate (and yes I know the only nuclear armed state in the region is actually Israel [b]and they don't like their neighbours[/b].)
"what shall we do with the Jewish problem" .when in our history have we heard that? If anyone posted on here what shall we do with the black problem there would be out cry and rightfully so.
I understand why you would take umbrage at a clumsy phrase like that but there is some wasy from referring to this as a Jewish problem and a final solution. It's nto a nice choice of words for sure and depending on context it may have been highly offensive or not.
I do find it to be part of the process of suggesting if we think there is a problem that we are somehow holocaust deniers and anti semites. It is possible to find the holocaust abhorent, respect Jews , think there is a problem[ I would never term it a Jewsih one but I may use Zionist] and oppose Israel without hating Jews, despite what some posters suggest to get folk to shut up
That's an interesting way of saying how angry you are that I dare have a differing opinion.
Straw man argument and an ad hominem 🙄
Grow up will you? Your pompous, hedonistic, high and mighty ego comes across even on an internet forum.
Ad Hominem
How do you think you are coming across?
Do you think you might be doing what you accuse me of doing?- just checking for signs of self awareness but I am not optomistic 😉
Stop shooting down peoples opinions
I am disagreeing with you- Straw man- look how you react to me disagreeing with you as well - oh the ironing
when they posit perfectly logical intelligent arguments simply because you disagree with them.
LOL - you know what I believe you beleive that but your arguments are neither, they are not even close, they are nothing but straw mans and ad hominems
I am not 'stupid' because you disagree with me. Ok?
Well you said it was a dictatorship - Is it? Was this a stupid thing to say? That said I agree and to repeat
[b]You can hold any opinion you want but your reasoning is absolutely awful.[/b]
No one can deny just how off key that is,
They allready have and the full quote makes it clear it does not mean what you claim it does.
and it disgusted me. You should be disgusted for trying to pass it off as an acceptable comment, just because the poster was arguing the same point as you.
SO for disagreeing with your fallacious argument I should be disgusted
I feel this thread is just another opportunity for the anti semites to come out of the woodwork and preach their hate using a conflict they neither understand nor want to understand
You say folk are stupid hate filled racist for disagreeing with you then you use hate filled language to say that is all I am doing to you
The irony is at stellar levels now.
If you wish to keep posting could you try actually formulating a logical argument with out insults? Should kepe your word count down if nothing else
What? If you're going to accuse me of something at least be man enough to actually accuse me of it.
Thought you were out?
The only things I could confidently accuse you of are being a bit daft and a bit nasty. Or a not-very-good troll.
I think with all palestinian/israeli threads people should be forced to give their religious beliefs before posting
I think the problem when discussing Israel is that it is impossible to separate the Israeli national identity from the Jewish faith. Just because somebody disagrees with their security policies with regard to Palestine does not mean they are anti-jewish. My own opinion of Israel is that they are increasingly acting like a bully. For sure Hamas have inflicted some terrible atrocities on Israel over the years but as has been stated above in other posts if another country acted in the way Israel has (grabbing land that isn't theirs, launching strikes on civilian areas etc) we would view them as a rogue state and treat them as such.
Perhaps the rest of the world needs to get over the collective political holocaust guilt which seems to be clouding everybodies judgement and stop treating Israel with kid gloves. Their increasingly aggressive behaviour could do a lot of damage in an area of the world that could do without further conflict.
Come on guys give nukeproofriding a break, he's given himself the job of defending the in-defensible, he's bound to come across as a nasty incoherent idiot. 🙄
kicks server
Kicks it harder
Well said Big Dave.
2'nd for Big Dave's post, I'm glad someone mentioned the holocaust guilt-trip that seems to pervade a few forum members reactionary posts whenever the subject of Israel is brought up.
It beggars belief to see how Israel can possibly justify the following expansion into the E1 area of the west bank, imagine someone gradually encroaching on your area of land, taking it bit by bit each year till you are left staring across a void to your family on the other side, you are not permitted free movement without being subjected to humiliating searches and questioning under threat of arrest and detention - how would you react to this treatment?.
That sounds suspiciously like a certain program initiated by the Gestapo to control the movement of the Jewish population interred in the Ghettos during 1940. Personally i am disgusted with the current plans for expansion of the settlements and it shows clear and wanton disregard of any intention for peace by the current Zionist leadership.
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If you wish to keep posting could you try actually formulating a logical argument with out insults? Should kepe your word count down if nothing else
I began by doing that but have been ground down by successive insult after insult and heads like hardboard, so I guess I've lost my touch 🙂
Come on guys give nukeproofriding a break, he's given himself the job of defending the in-defensible, he's bound to come across as a nasty incoherent idiot.
I never set out intending to defend anyone, nor have I ever said Israel is in anyway "right" - because in actuality I've said on a number times their actions are often wrong and that their leadership is dubious. All I did was suggest (to everybody's horror) that they were being very one sided talking about an issue that was far more complicated than they wanted to accept.
I said I was out, so can you stop talking about me? Or do you have no one better to have a dig at for no reason? Cheers 🙂 Don't call me nasty either. I'd imagine my comments would be incoherent to an idiot like you, yes. Just like the alphabet.
What I don't understand is why you're all so intent on making it personal. The wolf pack mentality is both hilarious sad at the same time, I think you all need to go down the pub and make some real friends 🙂
Thank you and goodbye.
Satire.
I began by doing that but have been ground down by successive insult after insult and heads like hardboard, so I guess I've lost my touch
Well, you're rather anti semitic aren't you? Wearing your brown shirt today are we?
This thread is full of the usual bunch of conspiracy nuts I see. I'm surprised any of you are fussed over this anyway - isn't the world going to end in a few weeks anyway?
Well there is your opening post in all its glory- It is indeed very much like you describe 😕
All I did was suggest (to everybody's horror) that they were being very one sided talking about an issue that was far more complicated than they wanted to accept.
no you said as above then followed it up with
Perhaps those of you who are doing so, and being entirely racist in suggesting that one side should be wiped out "because it's what's coming to them" should A) be ashamed of yourself, and B) stfu.
No one has said they should be wiped out
and of course
I feel this thread is just another opportunity for the anti semites to come out of the woodwork and preach their hate using a conflict they neither understand nor want to understand. You don't really care about the people of Gaza, who are living under a terrorist dictatorship, nor do you care for the people of Israel, who's government is intent on causing chaos.
Well at least this one had a fact about a dictatorship in with your personal insults and attacks - what a shame it was utterly untrue
I said I was out, so can you stop talking about me? Or do you have no one better to have a dig at for no reason? Cheers Don't call me nasty either. I'd imagine my comments would be incoherent to an idiot like you, yes. Just like the alphabet.
so we stop having "digs" at you - i am trying my best to simply comment on what you have said rather than you- but you can continue 😕
I think folk are having digs at you for the reason that all you do is ad hominems on them and then try and claim the- moral high ground/faux offended role when they return them
What I don't understand is why you're all so intent on making it personal. The wolf pack mentality is both hilarious sad at the same time, I think you all need to go down the pub and make some real friends
1. You do realise that yet again whilst appealing to folk not to get personal you insult them...oh the ironing- without ad hominems there is basically nothing in your posts.
2. What you refer to as the pack mentality is everyone disagreeing with you - perhaps you should reflect on that ?
Its very childish "debating" like this its just name calling 🙄
I tend to avoid these threads for obvious reasons, so this may have been posted before - but I thought it was worth sharing in case not.
Very moving and encapsulates the way the appalling Israeli regime and its apologists attempt to manipulate international opinion....
I also keep out of these debates, but that clip was worth watching. It would be interesting to understand the context better. It seems quite a jump from the girl's (Jewish?) comments to the response from Finkelstein. Are they not arguing completely different points?
She: its offensive to use the term Nazi.
He: I am not going to use the holocaust (especially given my family's history) as a justification for current Israeli policies
Have I misunderstood this/their positions? What exactly is the link between their views and the subsequent argument?
(edit: I see that Finkelstein has quite a career and a long running spat with Harvard's Dershowitz, who I have only read re torture. Makes me want to understand the context even more.)
Seems to me she's taken offence at comparisons between the aggressive behaviour of the Nazi German government and the present Israeli one.
I see, yes, had a look at other references to the incident after my post. I didn't get from the clip that she was objecting (apparently) to Finklestein's use of the adjective Nazi to describe the Israeli government.
If you look at the annexing of Gaza and the treatment of the Palestinians then there are certain parallels with historical world events.
Interesting video.
Bushwacked - MemberIf you look at the annexing of Gaza and the treatment of the Palestinians then there are certain parallels with historical world events.
Be careful ..... the last time someone made a comparison between the Nazis and Israel, Mark closed the thread :
Mark - Resident GrumpyMaking comparisons with Nazis is too much.
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/why-is-israel-allowed-to-hold-nuclear-weapons-illegally-and-iran-cannot-develop/page/3#post-4227366 ]Click[/url]
Good spot ernie.
😯footflaps - MemberThings might change once Iran gets nuclear war heads on their missiles. Israel might have start behaving responsibly and compromise.
Ernie, did I say anything of the sort..? I was referring to the English occupation of the Welsh. 😉
Perhaps the rest of the world needs to get over the collective political holocaust guilt which seems to be clouding everybodies judgement and stop treating Israel with kid gloves.
The rest of the world has collective holocaust guilt that clouds its judgement and causes it to treat Israel with kid gloves?
Thats my take on it Konabunny but of course that is just my opinion. It just seems to me that Israel is a very small country that makes a lot of noise and threats and does a lot of damage in a region of the world where the UN, US and UK would normally step in and put a stop to such aggressive behaviour.
Any criticism of Israel always results in cries of anti-semitism and 'remember the holocaust'. The worlds governments seem reluctant to take Israel to task properly; there has to be some reason for it as without Israel causing a lot of hassle the middle East would probably be a much less volatile part of the world. I can only come to the conclusion that none of Israels allies have the stomach to say 'the holocaust happened, it was awful, you've been given a country of your own as a result of it now move on'.
The link to the Finklestein video shows that even a professor of Jewish descent has a hard time trying to argue that the pro-zionist movement within Israels government is destructive and needs to stop living in the past. In fact it is worth looking up Finklestein (I was a bit sad and looked up some of his stuff last night), he makes a lot of persuasive arguments and has clearly spent his whole professional life trying to understand why Israel is, as he puts it, an 'insane nation'.
I shall accept any vicious attacks on my views and principles from my fellow STWers with good grace. Let the flaming commence...
like all religion- Zionism seeks justify its hegemony on the graves of all others.
