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No of course not, everyone should vote, as much as a find them unpalatable they've not done anything to warrant being in some way banned - so if think thier policies are the best course of action for the UK vote for them.
But I'd warn anyone being swept up in Faragefever to take the time to read about thier ideas - they abuse the advantage of opposition more than any party I've taken note of - "we're not racist" (but a lot of our members are) "we stand up for the working man and woman" (or at least those earning more than 50k a year because our proposed single rate of income tax would hammer everyone else) I could go on.
In my opinion UKIP will say ANYTHING to win someone over - behind closed doors in front of the 'faithful' they're the worst kind of 70's stand-up cliche, in public they care what they're asked, they're the Daily Mail of parties - give them an unfounded fear and they'll confirm it for you.
Still, they're the best thing that happened to UK politics since '97 - love it hate Blair (okay he's a dick) but the general public are once again interested in who governs them.
Oh I'm under no illusion that Farage is of the people.
I find this class war thing is really seriously embedded in the British society to the point of total hatred.Where I was there was/is no distinction with one's education background so long as they are not corrupted.
I hope you're not accusing me of class hatred cos that's a gross distortion of the point I'm making!... I'm merely pointing you to a few pieces of information which suggest Farage is of the same background as the current establishment and does not represent change in that respect. I'm not passing a judgement on whether I approve of him on that basis or not.
If you want to vote for him, go ahead, just don't be surprised when he doesn't bring about any real change (assuming UKIP actually get enough seats to be able to have any influence on legislation)
If you think the “old” parties need to improve, then voting for a party worse in nearly every way will not achieve that.
Seriously, everything I dislike about the “establishment” parties is amplified to comic effect by the actions of UKIP MEPs.
brooess - MemberI hope you're not accusing me of class hatred cos that's a gross distortion of the point I'm making!... I'm merely pointing you to a few pieces of information which suggest Farage is of the same background as the current establishment and does not represent change in that respect. I'm not passing a judgement on whether I approve of him on that basis or not.
If you want to vote for him, go ahead, just don't be surprised when he doesn't bring about any real change (assuming UKIP actually get enough seats actually be able to have any influence on legislation)
No, not accusing you. Just my general feeling with the people I spoke to who were very vocal especially some my lefty colleagues. He resented them so much so that he would have negative impression/assumption on them before even meeting them.
I doubt they would form the govt as they are still in the very early stages of their political path ...
For all the hysteria after a 5 minute skim read I don't see anything too extreme about UKIP's policies:
http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people
I won't be voting for them 'cos my gut feel is we're better off in Europe and even if I didn't think that I have a feeling that it's not as easy to withdraw from the EU as they seem to think so probably still wouldn't vote for them. Also I get a sense of the LibDem-esq small party-deffo-won't-get-in-so-promise-the-moon-on-a-stick-without-thinking-of-ways-to-pay-for-it-itis about their policies.
On Immigration they seem way less racist than the other parties: AFAICT Ukip are saying that all foreign nations will be subject to the same controls, whereas all the other parties say that immigration should be strickly controlled *unless* you're from a nice European country (and coincidently likely to be roughly the same race as us), in which case there's no need for control.
Frankly these threads amaze me?
1. There is no left wing political presence in the UK it died on the picket lines of the miners strike (other than possibly the SNP who are about to annihilate the mainstream parties in Scotland)
Note if the SNP ran in the North East of England they would probably win most seats
2. Most people in England think there Warren ****ing Buffet but can't even run a household let alone a business
3. We all need to stop thinking about "exit strategies" and "share options" and "property equity" as none of these are improving quality of life for the average person
4. UKIP is Nigel Farage that's as deep as it gets - a bloke that's prepared to reflect the views of a lot of people, if that's unpalatable then tough shit it's the same reason the Sun sells so many papers - the majority of people are dumb as a post to the political classes activities (read about Blairs current activities in today's telegraph)
5. Just for the record I will not be voting for any of them as they are all self serving money grabbing b******s
I know of a LOT of people who'll vote UKIP, a lot more than who won't & I believe that if one has the right to vote then one has the right to vote for whoever one wants, no wrongs or rights about it.
"Wrong"? No, no more than poking yourself in the eye with a stick is wrong. Self-destructive, but not wrong.
Where I live the Tory gets in every time. The Libs used to be the protest option, but are now untouchable. So for me it's stay home time, or vote UKIP. Which might split the Tory vote enough to let Labour in. I do hope they'll show some gratitude.
I believe Dave cocked up with his 'fruitcakes and closet racists'. I can't see many of them returning like lost sheep. The 'loonies' bit was a bigger mistake, enough people having experienced mental troubles, directly or through friends and families.
See the 'Son in hospital in coma' thread for why voting for UKIP is wrong. That service would just not be available to folk if the UKIPpers got their way. Scum.
UKIP are just the Tory's in another name with very little difference at grass roots level so not such a big step for most.
Vote for who you want, it's your vote, feel free to use it as you see fit
I know of a LOT of people who'll vote UKIP, a lot more than who won't & I believe that if one has the right to vote then one has the right to vote for whoever one wants, no wrongs or rights about it.
I won't be voting for UKIP, nor will anyone that I know who has expressed a preference recently-although to be fair it is not a topic of conversation that comes up all that often.This may change of course.
Unfortunately like slowoldgit I live in a dyed in the wool tory constituency. I have never had an MP that I voted for in the 30 odd years I have been voting. The only person that I have voted for in an election that actually got in was via the proportional representation in the European elections. I will always vote however, because if I didn't , how could I moan about the idiots others elect?
I agree it is important that you should vote for whoever you want. Or tactically if it keeps the person you don't want out.
The current projections predict between 4 and 9 seats for ukip, which is not great for them ,but how votes for them split other parties votes may prove quite interesting (or frightening depending on your point of view)
Ya, I know your feeling as you are neither here nor there. Just like my Norwegian friend who was born to one immigrant parent who could not fit in either way. He was so stressed about where he lived or come from. I have many friends like that so I do feel for them.
My view is that just relax and go with the one that accept you more.
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick dude :-). I fit in just fine - the people who I fit in with see me as me and don't give two hoots about where my parents were born.
Vote as you see fit.No one else's business
If you put it up for discussion, then you're making it other peoples business.
If you're a bigot and want to join other bigots voting in a party of bigots, then vote UKIP.
If not, don't.
While I can generally find someone from any of the other relatively mainstream parties seemingly normal UKIP does seem to have a staggeringly high percentage of ****s/Mentalists/Blatant racists making up its number. For that reason alone no, don't vote for them. It's a slippery slope. One too many protest votes and we might end with some real ****s in charge.
jamj1974 - Member
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick dude :-). I fit in just fine - the people who I fit in with see me as me and don't give two hoots about where my parents were born.
If I interpreted you wrongly then thanks for correcting me.
Good to hear that you are fine where you are and fit in unlike most of my friends with mixed parentage who constantly find it difficult to fit in by being tough on themselves.
Stay happy.
Every single UKIP candidate turns out to be a ****.
every single one, all the time. They just say the stupidest things, "the floods are because of gay people" "bongo bong land" or something just as mad.
They're all idiots, what does that say about the people still wanting to vote for them?
johnnystorm - Member
While I can generally find someone from any of the other relatively mainstream parties seemingly normal UKIP does seem to have a staggeringly high percentage of */Mentalists/Blatant racists making up its number. For that reason alone no, don't vote for them. It's a slippery slope. One too many protest votes and we might end with some real * in charge.
The question is why are there so many that will or intend to vote for them rather than the mainstream parties?
Are those voters being left out because those maintain stream parties voters keep maintaining what they have while the have not, no matter which mainstream parties they vote for, remain in the worst position?
If UKIP can win seat(s) then there must be something seriously wrong with the mainstream parties views for them to loose seat(s). They cannot keep hammering those that they regard as at lower spectrum of the society intelligent scale. There is a possibility that the support for UKIP will only increase if people keep being "disenfranchised" after continuously voting for main parties with not much improvement in their lives. Yes, you can blame the individuals but a fair majority are also hard working people.
emsz - MemberEvery single UKIP candidate turns out to be a ****.
every single one, all the time. They just say the stupidest things, "the floods are because of gay people" "bongo bong land" or something just as mad.
They're all idiots, what does that say about the people still wanting to vote for them?
Yes, I agree that they are not well trained in public presentation nor to control their mindset but at least you know who they really are.
The mainstream parties are so scary that you do not even know who the real person is. There is no way to defend against such stealth tactic no matter how "transparent" they said.
Look at the two main politicians (Tory and Labour) who recently got themselves in trouble with private companies "consulting" work. I mean these are people who would chew you up and spit you out without blinking an eye. However, when they are in front of the media they are "angelic" by saying all the right words. These are people who can stab you in the back without you even knowing until it's too late.
😮
We live in interesting times. Lord Baker (Kenneth Baker, as was, former Tory minister) has floated the suggestion of a Con - Lab pact if the SNP should hold the balance of power. Which is because the SNP are likely to override Lab and the remaining Libs in Scotland. So that's going to be a really popular idea in Scotland.
[i]The question is why are there so many that will or intend to vote for them rather than the mainstream parties?[/i]
because lots of folk don't pay any attention, so when they see him in a pub saying the same sorts of badly thought out things they also think, and they are too lazy to figure out why those things are stupid.
It's a good way of finding out who's stupid. It's about the only thing UKIP is useful for
Voting for a banker called Nigel will never be a protest vote.
If I'm honest, the UKIP scare the shit out of me. 😥
ere were me thinkin of votin UKip only to be told by them that are me better's that a should be votin for Miliband an is party of workin class ero's.
see that trouble wi bein a bit thick, yer needs the advice of them that's been there an worked oo knows wat is like to be at bottom of heap. next thet'll be tellin us abot 70's n fatcha.
If I'm honest, the UKIP scare the shit out of me.
Your'e gonna need a lot of bog roll after the next election then.
FWIW, all politicians scare me, theyr'e all lying, cheating, underhand, greedy shites.
Well done for choosing to vote. Should be compulsory.
Tactical/Protest votes with the "It's only 1 vote" mindset is probably the scariest. If you vote for a party that you don't want elected and enough people do the same guess what they get in.
slowoldgit - Member
We live in interesting times. Lord Baker (Kenneth Baker, as was, former Tory minister) has floated the suggestion of a Con - Lab pact if the SNP should hold the balance of power. Which is because the SNP are likely to override Lab and the remaining Libs in Scotland. So that's going to be a really popular idea in Scotland.
You can only hang on to Scotland for so long. At some point in time they will be independent nation and I think it will be during the last King/First President of UK (same person). My crystal ball says so ... 😀
emsz - Memberbecause lots of folk don't pay any attention, so when they see him in a pub saying the same sorts of badly thought out things they also think, and they are too lazy to figure out why those things are stupid.
How can folks not pay attention when Tory and Labour vice versa have been in power for so long? Even if you are clueless you would know how hard it is to earn a living and with that the first thing people blame is the govt but as they are in the lower spectrum of the society's scale or intellectual scale they are deemed side shows. i.e. not important in terms of voting count ...
It's a good way of finding out who's stupid. It's about the only thing UKIP is useful for
I say it's also a way to see how people react with each others.
[i]I say it's also a way to see how people react with each others[/i]
❓
don't know what you mean
How can folks not pay attention when Tory and Labour vice versa have been in power for so long? Even if you are clueless you would know how hard it is to earn a living and with that the first thing people blame is the govt but as they are in the lower spectrum of the society's scale or intellectual scale they are deemed side shows. i.e. not important in terms of voting count ...
So is public school educated, ex banker, and married to a German Nigel Farage and his team of homophobic, xenophobic and UFO spotting nutjobs the people to rescue the little man from the alleged tyranny of the EU? God help us.
No it's not wrong, you are free to vote for whom you wish that's the strength of our democracy.
UKIP's support has grown as the other parties have surcome to political correctness and will not confront an issue which a very substabtial portion of the population care about. Farage has stepped into the vacuum.
A series of issues a substantial proportion of the population don't really understand. It's the fault of the mainstream parties that none of then have even tried to explain them. It's their laziness in trying to sound ukip-lite that's got us in this mess.
Why ask the question? If you've decided to vote UKIP based on their policies, then fine - go for it. Perhaps you're looking for someone to talk you out of it (unlikely based on your previous posts), or perhaps you're just looking to start [s]an argument[/s] a discussion for no reason.
OP - have you read about their cycling policy ? This is a pro-cycling forum. If you're pro-UKIP you've really no place here.
I'll say one thing for Farage - he's bang on the money that the established parties have lost touch with the electorate. He's got us talking about politics and change in a way I don't recall (I'm 42 this year). Problem what we're talking about is "what's the point in voting, they're all a bunch of self-serving crooks"... none of the parties, established or fringe seem to have a positive ideology to sell with sensible-sounding policies to deliver it, it's all reactionary nonsense and manipulation.
Maybe that's the revolution - complete rejection of first past the post and moving towards Proportional Representation - which would be a massive shift for UK politics.
Also interesting is what's happening in the good old USofA - possibly the third Bush in power in 30 years. If not then they'll probably get a Clinton instead - and that's the country who most espouse democracy! Not so far away from the Putin/Medvedev swappsies 😯
If you agree with their "policies" then vote for them. BUT do look behind the headlines, have a really deep think about what their proposals will ultimately mean.
Eg: Opt out of the Human Rights Act.
That is jumping on the media's bandwagon about the difficulty of deporting hate preachers adovcating terrorism. The other extreme, if the UK were to remove the Human Rights Act, would be the ability to create a police state with impunity.
UKIP is made up of anti Europe Tory backbenchers. Apart from Farage they are not smart enough to stick to party line when making comments in public. The only reason people are talking about them is because of the easy, sensationalist headlines they readily supply to the gutter press. The only reason people might vote for them is because the Daily Mail and The Sun tell them to.
If you want more Tory than the Tories, then go ahead and vote for them.
Also interesting is what's happening in the good old USofA - possibly the third Bush in power in 30 years. If not then they'll probably get a Clinton instead - and that's the country who most espouse democracy! Not so far away from the Putin/Medvedev swappsies
The Americans love political dynasties, Kennedys before now we have the Bush/Clinton.
People love to insult UKIP but with Junker today calling for EU armed forces it's more ammunition for the euro skeptics / euro exit brigade
@bigbkackshed opting out of the EUropean Human Rights Act and replacing it with a UK equivalent is an excellent idea, we as a country have one of the best records on human rights we can manage our own affairs
I'll say one thing for Farage - he's bang on the money that the established parties have lost touch with the electorate. He's got us talking about politics and change in a way I don't recall
This, I don't think UKIP are fielding enough candidates to win outright power. But if voting for them can bring real change to the system then that can only be a good thing. The two main parties are far too complacent in their ways.
We'll see what happens I suppose
I honestly think the only rotten eggs actually half capable of steering this sinking ship at the moment are the Tories. Voting UKIP is only going to serve to take numbers away from the Conservatives and therefore let Labour back in. God help us!
Voting UKIP will force the Tories to move further "right" to capture the UKIP voters. That, in turn, will let Labour move further right as they only have to stay a smidgeon left of the Tories to be seen as less extreme than them.
Well UKIP are going to do a fraction of the damage to the Tories that the SNP are going to do to Labour. I don't see too many seats where a UKIP vote will let Labour in and UKIP will form an alliance / vote with Conservatives. The real story of the election is going to be the SNP preventing a Labour win.
@bigbkackshed opting out of the EUropean Human Rights Act and replacing it with a UK equivalent is an excellent idea, we as a country have one of the best records on human rights we can manage our own affairs
Oh dear, you were doing sort of all right up until this point.
The real story of the election is going to be the SNP preventing a Labour win.
I thought that was Ed Millibands job?
1. There is no left wing political presence in the UK it died on the picket lines of the miners strike (other than possibly the SNP who are about to annihilate the mainstream parties in Scotland)
Note if the SNP ran in the North East of England they would probably win most seats
Don't forget though that their main point of existense is so that their socialist leanings can be deposited at Gretna. If you live in the NE of England you could have looked North in envy at a nation of millionaires due to an oil fund, because don't forget it is OURS. Get the begging bowl out. A few kindhearted McChe's might throw you a penny or two. Also don't think the SNP cares two hoots about the NHS outside Scotland. It thinks your healthcare is going to hell in a handcart, just don't drag us down too.
The words of Orwell spring to mind about the mantra the SNP spread to it's supporters,
"All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others"