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Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3][4] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[5][6] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists,[6][7] and with agnosticism, which leaves the matter of existence open.[8]The term atheism originated from the Greek ????? (atheos), meaning "without god", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society
1) do you believe there is a god
No
2) do you believe there is no god?
see above same question unless i can believe there is no god and also believe in a god [ should be some mileage in that for you Dr 😉 ]
EDIT:
Oh and they all also had slaves
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
etc
but I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it's credo.
right - so what about Tibet? China?
Thats such a narrow minded viewpoint.
TJ
Posts crossed.
But Tibet and India....really? Where the religious hierarchy dominated just as much as in the West if not more.
2) do you believe there is no god?Meaningless question. I do not believe in the existance of any gods - you cannot believe in the absence of something.
Course you can, i believe there is no such thing as a flying spaghetti monster
Or try ths,
I'm telling you there is no god, do you believe me?
Junkyard - he is trying to show that athiesim is based on belief that gods do not exist - whearas ita based on not believeing gods exist. Trying to show that atheisim is a belief based system
TJPosts crossed.
But Tibet and India....really? Where the religious hierarchy dominated just as much as in the West if not more.
Yes but you are trying to claim that helping others in need is a Christian thing - which is just complete nonsense. many cultures have a belief in helping others.
I specifically said Western to differentiate from the religious and cultural development elsewhere.
TJ
No I'm not
I said- I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it's credo.
Anyway I am sure it's all just a question of semantics and deep down we are all singing from the same hymn sheet 😉
Still an outrageously patronising and unpleasant viewpoint. You are denigrating those who are not Christians. Morals exist despite christianity not because of them. Morals predate christianity.
Its offensive to suggest that anyone can only behave well because of christianity.
Junkyard - he is trying to show that athiesim is based on belief that gods do not exist - whearas ita based on not believeing gods exist. Trying to show that atheisim is a belief based system
No, not trying trying to show that. Trying to get you to explain
There is no explanation required. I do not believe in gods. thats all there is to it. Its not a belief in a negative. there is no place in my consciousness for belief in the supernatural. ~Atheism is the absences of belief in gods - not gods not god. there are many gods worshipped on this planet.
Do you believe in Shiva? Bhudda? Thor? Odin?
No, i don't.
I also believe they do not exist
What about you?
Surely 'belief' is simply to regard your personal opinion as 'fact' in the absence of absolute proof (or something)...
I know but i am just being "sporting"
his view can be argued pretty well logically but it is BS. At best IMHO you can claim I have a belief in empiricism and what it finds but I dont have beliefs associated with "truths" or what this method finds. I just have a "belief" in how to find these truths [ eliminate infinite error] Faith maximises error and claims it as a strength - then again it needs to because it is false and even those who believe will entertain doubts.
I dont have faith as you can prove me wrong with data
I think Buddha existed
Can yo not read or understand. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY GODS.
Oh, sorry, yeah, believe in buddha, he existed
Can yo not read or understand. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY GODS.
I get that bit, it's the other bit which you seem unable to answer, you keep banging on about what you do not believe, that bit is clear. The thing i want ro know is if if you think there are no gods
Happy to help ,purely in a pre Socratic philosphical kinda way and not in any way wishing to upset Eastern mysticism fanboys 🙂
nick1962 - MemberNot in any way claiming it was exclusively Christian or that they invented it,far from it but I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it's credo.
Christianity isn't a western religion. But that's a bit nitpicky maybe, so instead lets point out that judaiism pre-dates christianity.
his view can be argued pretty well logically but it is BS.
My view? I dont think i have expressed a view in this context
At best IMHO you can claim I have a belief in empiricism and what it finds but I dont have beliefs associated with "truths" or what this method finds. I just have a "belief" in how to find these truths [ eliminate infinite error] Faith maximises error and claims it as a strength - then again it needs to because it is false and even those who believe will entertain doubts.
Let's not conflate 'belief' and 'faith' rather stay with belief for now
Charlie
Seeing as noone else wants to play ball...
I do not believe in god(in the sense of some omnipotent being).
I do not think there are any gods either.
Does that help?
Yes nick, thank you i'm glad the question is not as difficult as it appeared to be.
Northwind
And Judaism (and the Old Testamaent and all that eye for an eye stuff that TJ quoted earlier -the established religious status quo is what Jesus challenged.BTw he got some of his main ideas from an older magic mushroom eating Jewish cult...or so I am led to believe Nag hammadi and all that
CharlieMungus - MemberThe thing i want ro know is if if you think there are no gods
I think that it's likely there are no gods. I do not believe that there are no gods.
Yes and it was the Jews who Jesus lectured to about the Good Samaritan
Nope. TBH I don't know why this is a hard thing to get to grips with.1) do you believe there is a god
2) do you believe there is no god?
1) No
2) No
Ok, thanks for this NW.but this is whybi sadimit sounds more like agnosticism. I guess it is atheism in the truer and less commonly seen sense. I know it's not agnosticism, but it has that scope for possibilites, and it is quite different from saying there is no god.
Charlie - your second question is meaningless and semantically null. there is no meaningful answer to it.
"Do you believe there are no gods" is not eh same as "do you think there are no gods"
I know there are no gods. Belief does not come into it.
Atheism is not believing in gods. that is all it is. lack of belief in the supernatural.
CharlieMungus - Member
The thing i want ro know is if if you think there are no godsI think that it's likely there are no gods. I do not believe that there are no gods.
😀
Cheers, i get you now, In a strange reversal, this time i was asking TJ!
you cannot believe in the absence of something.
If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez 'do you believe there are any pies on this tray?', you can of course answer 'No' and be right.
If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez 'do you believe there are no pies on this tray?', you can of course say 'Yes' and also be right.
🙂
Nick - an the good Samaritan was not a Christian. Your thesis that the moral requirement to help others is a Christian creation is obviously false on man grounds.
Its also really offensive
Yes and it was the Jews who Jesus lectured to about the Good Samaritan
I don't do this often, but, ZOMFG. The Good Samaritan in the story was, surprisingly enough, a Samaritan- which is yet another pre-christian abrahamic religion which espouses being excellent to each other.
"The Persians,Eygptians,Greeks and Romans never helped you out if you got a puncture
Oh and they all also had slaves..."
The Christians of the confederate states of America also had slaves. So the presence or absence of slaves is nothing to do with Christianity.
Elfinsafety - Memberyou cannot believe in the absence of something.
If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez 'do you believe there are any pies on this tray?', you can of course answer 'No' and be right.
If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez 'do you believe there are no pies on this tray?', you can of course say 'Yes' and also be right.
I do not need to believe in the absence of pies - there is a reality there that can be seen
Yes NW and it was the Jews who Jesus (the Jew)lectured to about the Good Samaritan.
"Do you believe there are no gods" is not eh same as "do you think there are no gods"I know there are no gods. Belief does not come into it.
Ok, so it is this idea of an absolute truth which is philosophically complicated. The idea that such things are absolute facts is something which we cannot reconcile.
So?
The Samaritan was good despite not being Christian. You thesis is disproven by the very story you try to use to prove it.
Ok fair enough too tired anyway don't agree with you re the whole 'God' thing though.
My tray of small pies is probbly about ready in the oven now. Shortly there shall exist no small pies. 🙂
You believe in God(s) Elf?
To be fair I doubt whether there's much more than just the 4 of you still reading this thread
I'd agree you had a point, but for that I come back to find another 50 posts by 10 different people (not including you, who presumably are also following this - that or stalking me 😯 )
I do not need to believe in the absence of pies - there is a reality there that can be seen
They might be microscopic pies or invisible pies or very well camouflaged pies. The idea that just because you cannot perceive them means that their non existence is a fact is a great conceit.
Pastryfarianism!
Oh and i am amused by the way you say 'easy' then fail to answer the questions directly.
I do sometimes wonder if TJ is a politician in training. Or maybe he's not one person, but a login to train up members of some political party in the art of pointless repetitive arguing.
TJ
I have not(knowingly at least) in this or any other thread claimed that mutual cooperation, man helping fellow man,is an exclusively Christian thing that Christians or even Jesus invented. Credit me with a modicum of intelligence please. There are many cultures throughout the world and throughout history who get along just fine without any knowledge whatsoever of Christianity.In fact many of them have been f88cked up and destroyed by missionary zealots in the name of Christ as various posters have said.
Aracer - once again the question asked had no meaningful answer. "Do I believe theeris no god" is meaningless. I do not believe in god. I have no belief about the absence of gods - I cannot as I do not believe in the concept of gods.