[Closed] Increased speeding fines

so those 25 minutes in 10 hours driving is that important to those other people? We save most of that not having to refuel till we get to Inverness where we stop for a coffee anyway.

and yes we once measured it with the same vehicle) fuel and it's [b]less stressful. [/b]

[quote=scotroutes ]If you can't overtake without speeding then you haven't left sufficient room to overtakeAmazingly clear and simple, isn't it? Otherwise you are arguing that speeding is a way of resolving your poor observational skills.

Umm this. If overtaking is your justification for speeding, then just don't overtake, sorry.

The thing is with driving is that speeding actually saves very little time.

Usually nothing in cities, but even sitting at 80 vs 70 for an hour saves <9 minutes.

(And who has ever been done for speeding while overtaking? Nonsense argument).

I think the excuse that gets trotted out of "I need to be drive for my job" should result in a bigger fine: if you need to drive for your job then you should be extra careful to follow the rules of the road.

Average speed cameras? since I am that annoying driver in front who sticks to speed limits, I have no problem with them.

In my 20's I spent a year as a travelling salesperson selling wholesale products to independent high street retailers. I did 120k miles in that year all over the uk. I had a 2 litre small saloon that could do 135mph and I wellied it as much as possible. I had lots of fun and a fair few fines/points.

Guess my average speed from one urban centre to another?

@5plun8 - probably about 50mph

@scotroute - but these days there are plenty of tools available to plan your journey: AA route planner; google maps; etc. all with real time information overlaid. No doubt haulage and delivery firms have something similar. When going down to mid-wales for the BB200 last year the journey time was within five minutes of that predicted by the AA tool and that included a mid-journey redirect due to an accident on the M56, no speeding involved. A serious accident *is* going to add to your journey time but then that's going to be the case whether you drove within or above the limits

(And who has ever been done for speeding while overtaking? Nonsense argument).

From a policeman, not many I'd hazard? From an automatic camera though, I expect that figure to be considerably higher.

I agree that it might well be safe under some limited conditions, and it can be very annoying when a road that I im used to driving at the national limit where appropriate his changed to a lower limit, but since I have found in practice that it makes little difference to my normal journeys or longer ones, I am happy to stick to the limits. Perhaps it's because my priorities have changed as I have got older.

I also like the variable speed limits on motorways as again in my experience they work in keeping traffic flowing. I don't drive for a living for which I am profoundly grateful, but if "professional" drivers are being pressured by their work to drive innapropriately then that should be dealt with

[quote=whitestone ]@5plun8 - probably about 50mph

Yup bang on. After being caught for 99MPH (a bit like the poster above, the officer suggest 99 as it was an acceptable figure for both of us..) and with 9 points I decided to revise my "work stress to get as many sales as possible vs chances of death or at least licence loss" equation and found that by never going more than 80 in a 70 and sticking to lower limits I got just as much achieved.
At 26 years old I still could not stop being a maniac when I thought I could get away with it, but now I am happy pottering at the limit.

I also like the variable speed limits on motorways as again in my experience they work in keeping traffic flowing. I don't drive for a living for which I am profoundly grateful, but if "professional" drivers are being pressured by their work to drive innapropriately then that should be dealt with

jimw- I was trying to differentiate between having unachievable delivery deadlines and the sort of random incident that can happen. For instance, if I pick a passenger up in John o'Groats and they're going to Inverness for a flight then I allow 3.5 hrs, even though its usually under 3. However, a big hold up could mean the risk of them missing their flight. However you want to put that, there is an added stress which is hard not to react to. We all know that being late is better than being [i]the[/i] late....

[quote=Cougar ](And who has ever been done for speeding while overtaking? Nonsense argument).

From a policeman, not many I'd hazard? From an automatic camera though, I expect that figure to be considerably higher.

Really? How?
Anyone who overtakes in front of a fixed cam deserves to get done, and on Mways the "speeding to overtake" argument is null as there is plenty of room, zero TED.
So then we have mobile cameras on sections where you could overtake, most of which will be obscured by the overtakee as the overtaker sails past. I can't really see many people being caught speeding whilst overtaking. Critical thought here please.

I also like the variable speed limits on motorways

I think they're great.

Everyone wants to go faster but they can't because of the limit, so they employ the tried-and-tested method of all moving into the "fast" lane. Meanwhile, the "use hard shoulder" sign is lit, so you've got a new first lane empty which as far as the eye can see, lane two with an occasional sprinkling of lorries, and three and four bumper-to-bumper with cars desperate to do 61mph in a 60 limit with the traffic flow moving at 40mph.

The last one of these I encountered I dropped onto the hard shoulder, set the cruise control to the posted limit (as per GPS rather than speedo), and passed easily a hundred vehicles in one go.

[quote=scotroutes ]jimw- I was trying to differentiate between having unachievable delivery deadlines and the sort or random incident that can happen. For instance, if I pick a passenger up in John o'Groats and they're going to Inverness for a flight then I allow 3.5 hrs, even though its usually under 3. However, a big hold up could mean the risk of them missing their flight. However you want to put that, there is an added stress which is hard not to react to. We all know that being late is better than being the late....

Exactly, being late for a flight or business pressure is not an excuse for risking lives.

Really? How?

Because policemen can make judgement calls, machines do not discriminate.

Anyone who overtakes in front of a fixed cam deserves to get done,

That's a different argument. The question was whether it happens, not whether they deserve to be penalised. FWIW I agree, if you can't see a bloody great yellow box on a pole you probably shouldn't be overtaking in the first place.

Critical thought here please.

DBAD.

[quote=Cougar ]
DBAD.

[quote=Cougar ]Really? How?

Because policemen can make judgement calls, machines do not discriminate.

EDIT - crossed understanding - I mean "how" are automatic cameras increasing tickets for speeding whilst overtaking.

Try and be civil. Moderator or not, I am making a statement not resorting to ad hom.

And accusing me of a lack of critical thinking isn't ad hom? Ok then...

"Moderator" is an irrelevance, for the purposes of taking part in a discussion I'm a forum user just like you.

Ok
Dont break the speed limit when overtaking the HGV doing 36 in a 40. You will see a straight , do a mental calculation and creep past at 41mph. Then a waanabe Guy Martin or atrained Police Persuit driver comes ino veiw at over 100mph, and they hit you.
Your mental calculation has failed because of a very rare event and your stupidity.
Or go to 3rd gear , accelerate hard get the overtake done , back in , slow down to 45 job done. shake head and tut at Guy Martin as he whooshes past

And we've got to take onto account most people's judgement is poor, especially if they are in a rush or tired. 99% of us are worse drivers than the best most progresive, considerate and observant 1%.

The problem is every one with a license thinks they are the 1%.

So speed limits err on the side of safety to accommodate.

What does the hive think ofmAverage speed cameras? My maw would have them everywhere.

Ditto this:

Average speed cameras? since I am that annoying driver in front who sticks to speed limits, I have no problem with them.

Except they do confuzzle the AudirangeroverBMWmercedes-ists who still seem to think "average speed" means boot it between cameras, but heave on the anchors ever time they see a yellow gantry, which overall probably increases the liklihood of a shunt... Put them everywhere? You're goin to see a spike in accidents before any reductions...

The actual solution is self-driving cars and an integrated traffic management system.
Remove the ego driven, sexting, meat sacks from the controls and watch journey times and fuel consumption tumble, That is at least 15-20 years away though...

For now the old carrot and stick approach isn't really working, I think it seems fair enough to try tweaking a few things, like bumping fines or more awareness campaigns, when these measures fail to change driving habits in the UK, then that can support harsher or more intrusive measures...

[quote=Cougar ]
Try and be civil. Moderator or not, I am making a statement not resorting to ad hom.
And accusing me of a lack of critical thinking isn't ad hom? Ok then...
"Moderator" is an irrelevance, for the purposes of taking part in a discussion I'm a forum user just like you.

It isn't Ad hom, I am asking you to think the statement through. Not calling you a dick.

And accusing me of a lack of critical thinking isn't ad hom? Ok then...

Oh give over. You made a cheap insult and you know it.

if you can't see a bloody great yellow box on a pole you probably shouldn't be overtaking in the first place.

[img] [/img]

*cant find the sunglasses smiley*

Ok
Dont break the speed limit when overtaking the HGV doing 36 in a 40. You will see a straight , do a mental calculation and creep past at 41mph. Then a waanabe Guy Martin or atrained Police Persuit driver comes ino veiw at over 100mph, and they hit you.
Your mental calculation has failed because of a very rare event and your stupidity.
Or go to 3rd gear , accelerate hard get the overtake done , back in , slow down to 45 job done. shake head and tut at Guy Martin as he whooshes past

Alternatively, travel at 4mph less than the maximum permitted speed, and take sod all extra time to complete your journey.

It isn't Ad hom, I am asking you to think the statement through. Not calling you a dick.

Fair enough. By the same argument, I wasn't calling you a dick, I was asking you not to be one.

[quote=ransos ]Ok
Dont break the speed limit when overtaking the HGV doing 36 in a 40. You will see a straight , do a mental calculation and creep past at 41mph. Then a waanabe Guy Martin or atrained Police Persuit driver comes ino veiw at over 100mph, and they hit you.
Your mental calculation has failed because of a very rare event and your stupidity.
Or go to 3rd gear , accelerate hard get the overtake done , back in , slow down to 45 job done. shake head and tut at Guy Martin as he whooshes past
Alternatively, travel at 4mph less than the maximum permitted speed, and take sod all extra time to complete your journey.

Exactly, the fallacy here is that because someone in front of you is travelling below the speed limit then you have the right to take risks to ensure you are at the speed limit.

Fair enough. By the same argument, I wasn't calling you a dick, I was asking you not to be one.

The other thing I've started doing is driving at 60-65 in the LH Lane on motorways, it's a revelation, all the cocksockets can still sit in each others boots in the middle/RH Lane and the Middle Lane hogs can "hold them up" doing 67 and refusing to change Lane...

But the slow lane is absolutely great, lots of clear space ahead, no bugger tailgating me, pull out to go past the odd lorry, half the stress, better fuel consumption and maybe 10 minutes more on a long journey?

You can't possible be talking about any in the vicinity of Manchester. Anytime you have any space in front (either on the M60 or M6), it will be filled by someone, or you'll find a lorry aggressively up you arse.

DBAD.

[quote=Cougar ]It isn't Ad hom, I am asking you to think the statement through. Not calling you a dick.

Fair enough. By the same argument, I wasn't calling you a dick, I was asking you not to be one.

Not at all, accusing you of a lack of critical thinking is not an insult per se, calling someone a dick is. I didn't mean to differentiate between asking and saying you were lacking critical thinking. I'll say it now "that post lacked critical thought".
You asked me not to be a dick, IE you were saying I was a dick. Its just cheap blatant ad hom.

singletrackmind - Member
Ok
Dont break the speed limit when overtaking the HGV doing 36 in a 40. You will see a straight , do a mental calculation and creep past at 41mph. Then a waanabe Guy Martin or atrained Police Persuit driver comes ino veiw at over 100mph, and they hit you.
Your mental calculation has failed because of a very rare event and your stupidity.
Or go to 3rd gear , accelerate hard get the overtake done , back in , slow down to 45 job done. shake head and tut at Guy Martin as he whooshes past

Or option 3:

Sod the "calculation" drive at 36mph, give the 35 tons of death trap in front some space and when you are 5 mins late, just tutt and say [i]"Sorry I'm slightly late, I got held up by a lorry for a couple of miles"[/i].

The world will not end if you don't get past immediately... No really.

Sit at 60 or go quicker, you can guess

People presume the road is empty and it's safe to go faster to get there quicker. Usually it works out fine. Sometimes things go horribly wrong and you run into a cyclist/pedestrian/another car.

But at least you saved 6 minutes this time. Next time might be fine too.. But it also might not.

Sigh.

I'm not going to get tangled up in semantics, all that will lead to is six pages of bickering. I took your suggestion of a lack of critical thinking to be a personal insult, if that wasn't your intention then I cheerfully withdraw my response.

Where is the like button??? ^^^

Not read all the posts. However my experience - I used to drive up the A9 " making progress" nothing too ridiculous but 10mph over the speed limit and looking for every overtake I could. After a discussion with Scotroutes I decided to try his approach of sitting at the speed limit and only overtaking really slow vehicles. Takes about 15 mins longer max over 150 miles. I only overtake maybe 5 vehicles the whole way instead of 50 and being constantly looking for the overtake, almost never sit behind someone, so much less stress I almost got bored and lost concentration.

I am converted.

Put them everywhere? You're goin to see a spike in accidents before any reductions...

You can't possible be talking about any in the vicinity of Manchester. Anytime you have any space in front (either on the M60 or M6), it will be filled by someone, or you'll find a lorry aggressively up you arse.

Admittedly most of my time is spent south of Birmingham, but I still stick to the slow lane and slow lane speeds and do seem to have less conflict and close calls on motorways as a result, even when I do venture north...

I didn't mean to insult either, I wanted a discussion, I thought your point that many people get caught by cameras speeding whilst overtaking was just not viable and lacked critical thought. It is an invitation to show me why or how people speeding whilst overtaking can get caught by cameras. Do it.

Yes , I get that the time difference is sod all over say 4 miles at 36mph in a 40mph limit. Lets assume that on the overtaking straight the limit goes to 60mph. The lorry is limited by law to 40mph. I am legally allowed to drive at 60mph. There are miles of bends and double white lines coming up with zero overtaking opportunities
Sorry chaps but Im off past that truck and I will use full throttle to pass the HGV as quickly as I can then continue with journey at below the speed limit for my vehicle for the next 10 miles of wiggles/ hills/ roundabouts etc.

[quote=tjagain ]so much less stress I almost got bored and lost concentration.
I am converted.

This is a problem, I find that as soon as I pull on to the motorway I start yawning.

Sorry chaps but Im off past that truck and I will use full throttle to pass the HGV as quickly as I can then continue with journey at below the speed limit for my vehicle for the next 10 miles of wiggles/ hills/ roundabouts etc.

On the "only being fined for dangerous driving" point.

That's a spectacularly poor standard of driving to aim for.

For example:

A young Dundee woman who hit and killed a cyclist in a head-on crash in Fife has been spared jail

Jessica Hedley was behind the wheel of a Vauxhall Corsa when it smashed into David Christie on the A92 near Freuchie on February 21 last year.

The 25-year-old nurse was driving to Edinburgh airport when she attempted to overtake a slow-moving HGV.

Mr Christie was wearing a yellow high-visibility jacket and had a flashing light on the front of his bike but Hedley still failed to spot him.

But from a legal point of view, that isn't dangerous driving, it's

causing death by [b]careless[/b] driving