Forum menu
neither of my 2 boys are good at bedtime. eldest is 8 this year,and still gives us a headache each night. calls all the time with excuses as to why he can't sleep. if you ignore him, he just gets louder and louder and wakes his 2 year brother up. the two year old wakes up at least twice every night and shouts for me. if you ignore him he wakes his older brother up
happy days
Although I think controled crying gives it a bad name, it does appear to be the only way. Kids are manipulative when it comes to getting what they want, even babies!
M6TTF just proves that his kids are in control 😆
At what age did people start the controlled crying .? Sweajnr1 is 7 weeks old and doesn't sleep for more than an hour at a time and probably only 10 hours total. We've been told that have to go with it for 16 weeks at least but some of these stories make me apprehensive.
3 full nights sleep in 16 months
I didn't sleep once through the night until I was 5 🙂
Our first didn't sleep once through the night till she was 5 🙁
We then had twins when she was just coming up to 3, I still remember being so tired I was hallucinating.
At what age did people start the controlled crying .? Sweajnr1 is 7 weeks old and doesn't sleep for more than an hour at a time and probably only 10 hours total
That is perfectly normal for a 7 week old!
Controlled crying for us was around 9 months old. Not saying that is right for everyone but was right for us/her
what franksinatra said ^^
Think we did controlled crying at around 16 months, it really was a last resort. In hindsight we'd have done it way sooner, but 7 weeks is jumping the gun a bit!
16months seems like a long time!
Was he foreceps delivery by any chance? My daughter #2 was and she was a very poor sleeper and would't settle day or night; other family had experience of this so we tried Cranial Massage by an Osteopath and it worked a treat. Basically the babies headplates give it grief and the trained pro can identify this and help to deal with it. Not all of them offer it anyway here's a link
www.somauk.com/osteopathy-edinburgh/maternity-infant-care/#CRANIAL OSTEOPATHY FOR BABIES
On the other hand Daughter #1 was allowed to get into a bad habit of skawking at bed time and we had to take a tough it out stance, 3 days to break a habit and it worked.
I'd advise googling the negative effects of controlled crying first before you go ahead with it to see if it's what you really want to do, but we're not going to try it on our 17 month old non sleeper!
I'd really seriously consider looking further into cranial osteopathy with a view to not doing it.
I don't want to deride others experience but it's snake oil (sorry).
Perhaps, but a head rub is nice. Perhaps babies need love and caresses and close contact to feel secure? Rather than stressed parents
WWW - based on what experience? Are you qualified in someway?
My child went from fitfull short sleeps and incessant crying to peaceful and more regular sleeping pattern after just one session. Only went twice in total. Same for my Nephew, was recommended by family Doctor.
I'd really seriously consider looking further into cranial osteopathy with a view to not doing it.
Yes but that would be child abuse, and if you let your child cry to that extent it is wrong.
Babies and small kids can not articulate themselves like adults so when they do not like some thing they cry. There is nothing wrong with a kid crying, its just their way of expressing their disklike for some thing, even as in this case if they are not getting everything all their own way.
Kids like routine / habit / getting their own way. If that means they get used to waking up at 2 am every night, they are used to it and will keep doing it, especialy when m&d come in and give them lots of attention.
Got to be cruel to be kind at times.
But every decent parent will know when controlled crying is just a battle of wills between kid and parent, or whether the kid is in distress.
[i]Are you qualified in someway[/i]
not medically but then neither are osteopaths.
This really isn't the thread for a 'cranial osteopathy is bollocks/Oh no it isn't' thread.
I think the OP should do his own googling and reach his own conclusion.
[as an aside (and in an age before google) we tried it in desperation for our son, other than a bruise on his head it made no difference to him]
We had this with one of our three. Two years of maximum 1 hour of sleep.Again, we went through all the medical stuff and the comfort stuff.
In the end, we just worked out it was a control thing and that became a habit.
We warned the neighbours, and had three nights of screaming. He literally lost his voice and had a sore throat. We just left him to it, and repeatedly took him back to bed silently.
It was tough. It took real effort and teamwork to just ignore a clearly upset child - but it was of his making, and life could not continue as it was.
But, since then he has slept through, although still the worst sleeper in the house. He is now 12.
I hope you work it out OP.
That's where we got to with our eldest, eventually implementing the the old "Controlled Crying" technique after a week or so of feeling like awful neglectful parents, it apparently just clicked and she has slept through ever since, which after ~18 months of sleepless nights was a proper shock to the system, it actually takes a minimum of three consecutive nights of proper sleep before you stop feeling like a Zombie...
Our previous coping strategy was night on/night off shifts, I was on duty one night, the missus did the next. If that meant the off-duty parent slept on the Sofa or in the spare room to get some kip then so be it. This just about kept us both going for a while, but then 'er indoors propensity for martyrdom got the better of her and she had to get up on her off nights just so I knew how hard done by she was, lack of sleep generally makes us both more argumentative and arsey so it had to be dealt with...
Second one we just neglected, she slept fine from about 12 months...
There will not be a third, I have gotten used to having my evenings back and sleeping...
I figured 7 weeks was a little early but planning in advance just in case......
We had this with both of ours, and it's a beast. Both were sorted out with controlled crying, but that doesn't mean it's going to work for yours.
First things first - take turns if you can, so one of you at least gets a full nights' sleep. If needs be, take turns going to stay at a friends' house, travelodge or with parents. Getting a full night's sleep will give you perspective - trust me, I've been there. Literally, go somewhere and go to sleep - don't stay up watching telly. Go to bed. One of you will have a hellish night - but only one of you, instead of both of you. Remember - you outnumber the nipper, and you've got a lot more experience. 🙂
We had similar and tried all sorts of things. It sorted itself out in the end but I think it was more just time than anything else.
Some things which helped: Sound - you think it should be quiet for them but actually noise helps, particularly white noise.
Dad going in to settle him rather than Mum. This was really tough as he wasn't happy. I basically managed to settle him by playing him music and then eventually singing to him. Very tough though with also working.
Will he/her settle ok and just wake?
Don't let them get over tired. Sleeping during the day helps. Also spend plenty of time in their room and bed during the day so they are happy there.
Controlled crying didn't work for us and got to a point where he was over stressed. Everyone told us that's what we had to do but we decided if it felt wrong then it was.
It did settle down eventually, but it was 2-3 years and he's still not a great sleeper.
What ever you do, don't let this damage your relationship. Very important.
At what age did people start the controlled crying .? Sweajnr1 is 7 weeks old and doesn't sleep for more than an hour at a time and probably only 10 hours total. We've been told that have to go with it for 16 weeks at least but some of these stories make me apprehensive.
I think it is recommended not till 6m minimum, but you can encourage good sleep behaviour without doing it and way earlier than 6m. Personally its not for me but I know plenty who have used it sucessfully. no 2 is 11m now and has just started sleeping 7-5 some nights in the last few weeks, he's always been a better sleeper than no1 was though.
7 weeks is tiny, and will only just be working out night from day and will barely know they are not still inside. Things change all the time at that age don't worry.
What ever you do, don't let this damage your relationship. Very important.
Rubbish. She gave birth to the noisy monster, it is entirely her fault. Blame her at every opportunity. Point out that a dog would be much easier to train, and cheaper. 😉
That Ashton and parsons stuff worked for us when the getting up was all the time. That said I haven't slept fully for 5years now (kids 5 and 4) and can't even remember what sleep used to be like.
The joy of parenthood!
What did I used to do with all that spare time?!
This. It's a behavioural problem. Buy and read Toddler Taming by Dr Christopher Green, 99 pence on Ebay, it will be the best 99p you ever spent.
The advice therein made precisely zero difference to our non-sleeping screamer. It turned out that all she wanted was her door left open and the hall light left on, but wasn't able to communicate it to us. She sleeps fine now...
not sure but when my boy had chickenpox a few weeks back, a small dose of piroton knocked him out for about 14 hours...
THANK YOU EVERYONE..all much appreciated. At least I know I'm not the only one. Had half expected a load of MTFU responses! Lol
The wee man always naps in the morning...and he even gets his sleeping bag when he's knackered and goes to bed initially without issue. It's just once he starts waking...it doesn't stop.
To answer a few points:-
Have heard varying stances on controlled crying from opposite ends of expert opinion...more research and mum and dad discussion first before attempting.
Used the Ashton stuff...didn't work for us.
Had black out blinds since it started to get light last year...no effect.
He was pulled out via suction cup...and tangled up several times in his cord. I love head massages...but not sure he would be amenable to it.
Shed or cellar? - for me and the wife...or him lol?
I was also a nightmare sleeper...so maybe it's hereditary.
He runs away from the hairdryer...so not sure he'd enjoy the noise!!!
Wife was made redundant at Christmas but has just got a new job. We're hoping nursery may see an improvement...otherwise we could both be screwed!
Thanks again folks...and I'll remember all your kind words in about an hour from now 🙂
WWW - based on what experience? Are you qualified in someway?
My child went from fitfull short sleeps and incessant crying to peaceful and more regular sleeping pattern after just one session. Only went twice in total. Same for my Nephew, was recommended by family Doctor.
It's fascinating that certain internet warriors understand the complications of the human body so well that they can discount every form of medicine/therapy/treatment which doesn't fit with their narrow world view. Show me a medical professional that can tell me definitively how every part of the body works and I'll write off every non-standard approach. And then to declare from their high horse that this isn't the place for an argument about it. FFS...
Good luck OP - my wife almost lost the plot when ours screamed incessantly during the day for months and then it suddenly got better. Try whatever might work (and really persevere with whatever you're trying) and hope for the best! It never stays the same for ever!
i would be careful with the cranial stuff- apart from the lack of clinical evidence it is also [url= http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/call-for-age-limit-after-chiropractor-breaks-babys-neck-20130928-2ul6e.html ]Dangerous[/url]
I have nothing to offer other than my sympathy. I've been awake pretty much since Tuesday morning with a 3 month old mini RRR and a wife with some sort of chronic food poisoning. As such poor wife has been crumpled in bed barely able to move and I've been spending the last 16 hours or so trying to appease mini RRR with bottles instead of Mrs RRR's ample frontage. The boy is not happy, I'll be attempting the night feeds and also have the laughable prospect of going to work tomorrow and dealing with several pressurised projects. Oh and then I'm on call from Friday afternoon for 8 days (as well as the 9-5).
Rant over
Apologies, hope you make some progress 🙂
Ours was a 1hr squawker for a few months which was a bit testing. She would go down ok then wake up bang on the hour and think it was morning ! It became habit and we had to break it. I arranged for my wife to be out 3 nights in a row and had to be quite firm about it then did a bit of pseudo controlled crying, i hated every second of it and will happily admit to being in tears at one point on night one. Second night though it was remarkable the difference and by night three i plonked her in the cot, read her a story, showed her Mr crazyface light thing and she lay down and went to sleep ! That was 4 months ago and she does that every night now, sometimes she does appear at 5am but its more stable. The controlled crying thing has to be thought through big time, we were not keen but there just came a point when it seemed like we coudl do it with no psychological damage to all concerned and we went for it.
I do also try and settle her in the night if she wakes, when my wife did she was on milk duties so started another habit. Again, it won;t be well recieved the first time but once it becomes the norm it will settle down.
Good luck, and like you its nice to read that everyone else has times when you just think W T F !
We have a 3 year old and a 1 year old (both boys) My mrs has had no more than 5 uninterrupted nights sleep in the last 3 and a bit years! 1 year old woke up 10+ times last night.
3 year old sleeps well now. We tried everything but he just sorted himself out in his own time.
5mins of crying before you respond? When we broke mini_oab out of his non sleep habit it was a couple of hours.... 😐
We have a good sleeper (12 hours straight) but a terrible getting-to-sleeper.
I guess you could call it controlled crying that got him to sleep through... well, the baby monitor broke so we have no idea if he cried.
He's 25 months and until this week, needed my wife or me to sit at the end of his bed until he fell asleep.
With number 2 arriving in October, I decided over the weekend that enough was enough so, after a bath and stories, we turned the light off and left the room. I sat on the landing with an iPad and glass of wine.
He cried until he was sick on Monday (got cleaned in the dark - I had a towel on his sheets in preparation) and then fell asleep.
He cried until he fell asleep (20 mins) on Tuesday.
He grumbled for 5 minutes last night and then slept.
I know our situations aren't the same but children are craftier than you think. If you leave them long enough they'll sleep by themselves. It's tough, but worth it.
We got our little one sleeping through at 5 months with some controlled crying. I think it can be done at 3mo - anything earlier and they don't know enough about anything.
Did lot of research and considered any risk of psychological damage done over 1 week was going to be outweighed by months/years of lack of sleep.
Like all of us little ones go through cycles of light and deep sleep. At the light part you might wake up momentarily get in a comfy position and go back to sleep. You probably are totally unaware of this.
This ability to resettle is a skill that little ones need to learn. When they wake up at the light part of the cycle they need to Realise 1. they are secure 2. That they should continue to sleep.
For us this meant a good dark room, a consistent night/nap routine - bath, feed then 2x stories - so they are relaxed and know it's bed time - and controlled crying.
We did a week of it. Went in to her room after allotted time and placed a hand on her so she knew she was secure. Not a time for hugs - this is sleepytime - she has to realise we are here, she's safe but not reward her for being awake.
Hard to do but sleep and a sane household (mostly) are the rewards.
Your mileage may differ.
wow! i feel very lucky with my 2 compared to what some have or are going through with their little ones.
our eldest is 6 and we got him onto a routine very early and it worked wonders as he would sleep through the night. it got a bit difficult when he was between 2 and 3 as putting him to sleep would take up to 2 hours but again sheer perseverance got the end result.
our second is nearly 2 and again, we got her into a routine early on. again similar results but recently we moved her into her brothers room to make way for number 3 (due in 2 weeks) and again its a right pain getting her to sleep at moment.
its taking up to 2 hours. the only way she gets any comfort is by sticking her hand down her mum's top so she gets that skin on skin comfort...but this is usually followed by shouts from her mum because she pinches her as well. she does this with me if its my turn but for some reason she doesnt pinch me. one thing i have found that helps is if she watches me play on my phone in the dark...usually within about half an hour she's fast asleep. the wife doesnt agree with this technique but if it works then why not?
i dont know what number 3 will be like....