^^^Wet dreams turned into reality over decimal place differences.
Tthew - no worries - I knew someone would.
Easily
"A laptop" I don't own one. I have a 10 yr old desktop that I bought following recommendations from more IT literate friends from the nearest bricks and mortar shop. I can't even tell what make it is without looking
Your panniers (or bike trailer)?
Panniers bought on recommendations from friends and because they suited my needs ( ortlieb). trailer bought secondhand
Your electricity provider?
Been with Scottish power since before there was any alternative. Can't be arsed to change
Your mobile phone contract?
Vodafone - because they had at the time by far the best coverage in the mountains.
Cycle gloves?
Aldi builders / gardening gloves
None of those things have been influenced by advertising at all.
but the brand might have paid to have their product on the shelf at eye level.
I almost never buy the stuff at eye level. I usually buy the stuff thats on the lower shelf. Usually have to search for the stuff I want. Eye level shelf usually contains stuff I do not want. I know the ticks and thus I look at the lower shelves first 🙂
I really think you guys would be very suprised to see how I live my life
I do not see any adverts on the internet. I don't see any on tv. I don't buy magazines.
I did have a real think about this. I couldn't tell you what brands stuff like toothpaste and washing powder are.
Advertising is everywhere. You might think you bought your food without looking at the brand,
He probably did. But seeing some adverts may have influenced whether he went to Tesco or Sainsbury's to do it...
I've thought of another one that does get me, and I actually seek out. Bike and running races. Some of it is word of mouth but some of it is seeing it advertised on social media and thinking 'that looks fun' and then entering. Without advertising how would I even know the race was happening? I guess that is a little different in that I want to do a thing and need an advert to inform me where and when the thing is taking place, it's got nothing to do with brand awareness, it's just information.
I am fairly immune to it. For example I have never clicked on or purchased anything as the result of any of the literally 1,000s of adverts I have seen on STW over the years. In fact STW would be a good test for people as you won't get many more adverts on any other site, it is at a ridiculous level.
I did recently buy a bottle of Kraken though after seeing Kraken adverts on every episode of a series I was watching and before that had never bought a bottle of rum. Glad I did as it is rather nice!
I suppose I am more susceptible to very targeted advertising within Youtube content telling me about cycling products that I may not have been aware of.
I'd love to be immune to advertising.
Currently wearing a pair of Alpkit shorts.
Now I probably haven't seen an advert for all kit shorts, but when I needed shorts I went to the hatheresage shop. How did I know it was there?
Advertising. I walked past two other outdoor shops to get there with out going in because alpkits adverts clearly worked on me.
If you have any branded stuff, you've been advertised to ( in my opinion)
Air fryers- from none to half my mates having one in 5 years. Excellent advertising
@kormoran it wasn't an advert but here's another not an advert, happy to help 😉
Isn't the point of some really effective advertising simply that you don't know you've been, erm, tangoed, I mean, 'influenced'? Stuff that seeps into popular culture, so faced with a can of Tango and a can of own-brand orange fizz at the same price, you unconsciously grab the name you're aware of?
Just thinking you're not influenced by the process, doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't. Personally, I don't think I'm overtly influenced by ads in the sense that i gormlessly see an ad for, say, Specialized bikes, and immediately speed over to my local Spesh store and buy one, however, it might increase my awareness of the brand or, in some subtle way, shape my perception of it.
If I were TJ - which I don't believe I am - then Patagonia's promotion of its sustainability ethos might conceivably influence my perception of the brand - is that a bad thing? But basically, advertising is so embedded in our culture that even if you think you're not influenced by it, at some level, you almost certainly are.
Why are people so emphatic that they're not? Is it the subtle shame that somehow you've been manipulated? Or maybe a just 'I'm just so much better than the rest of you. Very few of you could possibly understand just how amazing I and my lifestyle are? 😉
Advertising. I walked past two other outdoor shops to get there with out going in because alpkits adverts clearly worked on me.
I'd say there is a reasonable chance you went to Alpkit this time because you've been before and liked what you previously bought. So that translation is nothing to do with advertising. But I guess why you went the first time might be advertising driven. My first Alpkit purchase was something tiny (in their first few months - so I guess about 20 years ago now) because a friend had the same thing and I borrowed it and liked it. So I don't think advertising played much of a part there either.
Where I probably have been manipulated is with a stream of adverts that have probably kept me aware of the brand over those 20 years even if they have not directly made me lust after a specific product.
He probably did. But seeing some adverts may have influenced whether he went to Tesco or Sainsbury’s to do it…
And the food available in Sainsbury's or Tesco is influenced by advertising. One of the main jobs of food advertising is persuading stockists to give over shelf space to brands. And, of course, you can't pick up most food without seeing the advertising on the label, the shape of the packaging, never mind tickets and other PoS advertising in store... everyone is exposed to it, and it's unlikely that any of us is entirely unaffected directly by it. But even if you were to be unaffected directly by it all, your options available to you are still altered by its effects on retailers and other consumers.
Were any of the three houses that you bought advertised for sale?
Word of mouth advertising is still advertising…
TJ, Just to wonder on the point of how ubiquitous advertising is, and bearing in mind that fatbikes are mostly considered a marketing gimmick, how did you know you wanted a fatbike if you're immune? Somewhere along the line, the fatbike advertising found the chink in your armour and you became aware of them and thought "I am that very demographic" and took the AIDA train from Awareness to end station Action to buy one. Somewher, however unwittingly, you've been advertised to...
A phrase wheeled out regularly in marketing courses is:
"“Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don’t know which half” and it's probably the same with consumers we don't pay attention to lots of advertising, but some of it will get through when the stuff targeted directly at our very own niche segment pops up and says "Orro frames are in the sale" and boom we're on the AIDA train too (that was a short 15 minute ride for me)
Social media makes finding that chink much easier (Cambridge Analytica anyone), and at a recent meeting with a multinational consumer goods company, an AI speaker was talking about how Meta are gathering all sorts of metrics on each individual user, and will have over 100 data points on interests, health, mood, activity; all gleaned from browsing activity and other phone app data scraping - and based on those data points, Meta knows what you're purchasing online next, before you do...
Pretty scary scenarios when that falls into the wrong hands, and as a non-FB user, I have no idea how dirty the election manipulation is getting on FB.
An interesting aside that in advertising even the best plans can misfire, I saw this ad stand in waitrose the other day....
I'll happily admit to being a knowing participant in the great game as a consumer as my the various branded items filling my house will attest to. Actually, I participate more at the brand level - i think industry insiders would call that marketing - rather than product specific advertising, as when I decide I want a particular something I will then research it to find the best something for the job rather than the most promoted. Which brings me to the final level of the game - selling. As someone who spent over 30 years in a job where I was being pitched ideas multiple times a day I am automatically programmed to switch off and close down a sales conversation unless I initiated it.
I think lots of folks are inured to it rather than immune, as a society we are soaked in it after all. But if you can name a brand of fizzy pop, or a fast food outlet, or a coffee shop, or a on-line multi channel reseller or detergent, a bike brand, or well any product made by any manufacturer then you've been advertised at and its worked on you. Even if you don't understand the purpose of advertising, it's worked on you.
A lot of what I get will miss me, they are products that I have no interest in possessing or using - gambling, perfume, verbos (whatever they are). However there will be hits and brand awareness is brand awareness which is not unlearned. It is like spamming but with better odds - stick it out there and given the number of targets you will get a hit.
If you think you are immune - think again.
bearing in mind that fatbikes are mostly considered a marketing gimmick, how did you know you wanted a fatbike if you’re immune?
If you believe that fatbikes are a marketing gimmick, that's because you've been led to believe that. It's not a conclusion you've reached on your own.
TJ has friends with fatbikes, some of whom (ahem) may have told him how much fun they are and would have ridden with him and maybe even gave him a ride on one.
If you think that marketing or advertising doesn't work on you, try this thought experiment.
You're walking along your home town high street and some random stops you and says to you "Excuse me chap, do you know where there's a MaccyDs" I will bet money that 1. You know the colour and shape of that sign, and you're mentally calculating where you've seen it, 2. You know what MaccyD is, and 3. you know what they sell.
That's advertising. That's way a brand like them and Coke, and lets face it, there isn't a human over 2 who doesn't know what those two things are, advertise so much, they don't care whether you personally buy from them or not, but they care very much that you know what it is they sell.
And we all do.
Fat bikes - I live on the coast of East Lothian. It was inevitable. It took one niche blog, that's all. However I expect if I had seen ads for them, they would have worked.
It's now the videos that do the lifting - they don't call them influencers for nothing.
But if you can name a brand of fizzy pop, or a fast food outlet, or a coffee shop, or a on-line multi channel reseller or detergent, a bike brand, or well any product made by any manufacturer then you’ve been advertised at and its worked on you.
Even if you never buy those brands? I never use chain coffee shops, I never use on line resellers, I very rarely buy any consumer goods new.
It really does amuse me that people who do not know me tell me what I do and why
Even if you never buy those brands?
Advertising isn't just about making you want to buy certain things, its also about making sure you know that it exists. Even when you're in the supermarket and you're looking for washing up liguid, you know what you're looking for right? You know the shape and colour of it, why else d'you think they all look the same? Why else would every brand of dishwasher liquid use the same palette of lurid colours and the same shape of plastic bottle. Why d'you think that every bleach bottle is the same shape, or that every brand of laundry detergent is sold in that shape of cardboard box?
In another thread you mentioned that you wouldn't buy coffee from Starbucks. If advertising and marketing doesn't work on you, how do you know what they are? or what they do? I'd bet money that you'd be able to recognise the particular shade of green that they use outside their restaurants, even if you've never darken their door.
I’d bet money that you’d be able to recognise the particular shade of green that they use outside their restaurants,
You would lose that bet. Starbucks is a green logo? I did not know that.
So according to you adverstising still works if you never buy that product - thats weird.
how do you know what they are?
Political reading about their unethical practices
thats weird.
Of course its not. Why d'you think that Coco-Cola and McDonalds advertise so much? when every person on the planet knows what they sell.
Starbucks is a green logo?
Yep, right first time.
I did not know that.
Weird then, that you knew, huh?
So according to you adverstising still works if you never buy that product – thats weird
That's right - advertising is primarily about increased brand awareness. Or at least, brand awareness is measurable and can be used to judge the effect of a marketing campaign whereas there's a lot of noise or variables in sales data.
Nickc - your post said a green logo - thats how I knew. I didn't before. I would have said black
So according to you advertising is still working if you never have and never will buy the product. Riiiiight
By the way, I'm not mocking you, and I believe you when you say you shop randomly and don't look at brands. But Tesco (you know who they are, right?) don't need to tell you that "This is washing up liquid" you know what it is when you see it.
If threw up a picture of a fairy liquid bottle, you'd be able to tell me what it is and what it does.
I very rarely buy any consumer goods new.
But I bet there are certain brands you got to or avoid.
Some of that will be based on brand awareness, some will be based on previous buying experiences, some based on recommendations.
Riiiiight
Read my thought experiment post, you know what those golden arches mean when you see them hanging outside a door.
To live up to your statement I challenge you to generate a sale from a specific user here for a specific product from a specific brand they have never bought from before.
It's not about evaluating the ads and making a specific purchase based on those - not usually, at least. For some things maybe - if you see something for say, a particular EV that has a 400 mile range you might go 'ooh that's interesting' and follow it up. That's useful when there is a genuine development that makes it above other things.
But if I say to you 'washing powder' or 'dish washing liquid' you are quite likely to think of Persil or Fairy Liquid. Why? Because for people of the age you probably are, we were bombarded with ads for those products. We have no idea if they are objectively better than anything else, but we simply think of them. You've also heart of Cillit Bang and Ronseal. Why? You're much more likely to gravitate towards something you've heard of.
I simply do not buy new consumer goods, I buy food without looking at the brands
So when you buy say, pasta sauce, do you end up with a different one each time? Or do you close your eyes, spin around and grope the shelves to get one at random? Why do you think supermarket own brands are so prevalent in the UK? What supermarket do you shop at? I assume that living in a city there are multiple options available to you.
Let's say you tore a hole in your cycling shorts, and STW plastered a huge Endura advert over this thread saying "95% off shorts!" would you think 'wow that's cheap, I'll check it out' or would you think 'I won't go there, I will go to my usual shop and pay 20x more because I must not respond to this advert'.
Sometimes adverts notify you of things you need at good prices, or with good developments. It's not always about sentiment or image.
We live in a culture that is immersed in consumerism and advertising. Its impossible not to be influenced in some degree by it. But there is a world of difference between Awareness and Action, which I think it what TJ is getting at - direct advertising doesn't influence his purchasing decisions.
Of course things like recommendations from friends/forums etc do derive from other people being advertised to/ influenced, which comes back to the total immersion society we live in.
Plenty of people have consumerism as a hobby - I wish I didn't and am trying harder to avoid pointless purchases. Its just unfortunate that bike bits are so shiny and that I seem to think a 2 year old phone is at the end of its life.
It really does amuse me that people who do not know me tell me what I do and why
We just think you're unaware of what you do 🙂
We all discuss gear and bikes on here. We discuss the things we've heard of. Why have we heard of them? You've been on here asking for recommendations before, and been given them - but why do we recommend them? Why did we buy them in the first place to be able to recommend them to you? Advertising and marketing pervade our entire existence. You'd have to be a literal hermit to be immune, and even then you'd be aware of brands because their names are on the rubbish you'd find blowing around the place.
It took one niche blog, that’s all.
A niche blog written by someone who had a fat bike. How did that person get the fat bike? If they bought it, why did they buy one? How did they hear of it?
This isn't evil, by the way - fat bikes are a genuine and useful innovation, but people still need to be made aware of it. If you invent something great but no-one knows about it, that'd be silly.
Question for TJ: how did you find out about Putoline?
From a social media marketing angle, ads & marketing has been great. It's put a few small businesses on my radar which have provided me with some nice, good quality UK made products rather than mass-produced mega-corps stuff.
So it's not all bad.
Question for TJ: how did you find out about Putoline
I was looking for linklyfe which is what we used to use back in the day. No longer available but putoline is a similar product and the only one available at the time. So I was looking for a hot melt wax motorcycle chain lube and found the only one on the market. Cannot actually remember where I bought my first tin or why I chose thaqt retailer.
But if I say to you ‘washing powder’ or ‘dish washing liquid’ you are quite likely to think of Persil or Fairy Liquid.
Nope. I would think washing powder or washing up liquid. I wouldn't think of a brand at all
We just think you’re unaware of what you do
Whereas I know you are unaware of what I do 🙂 It just seems beyond your ken
So when you buy say, pasta sauce, do you end up with a different one each time?
I don't buy ready made past sauces.:-)
When buying stuff like that tho I will perhaps t5ry a range of items but I will generally buy the one with the least food miles
You’re much more likely to gravitate towards something you’ve heard of.
You maybe - me not. I will look at where its made, what it contains and what the price is. I actually prefer to buy non branded stuff where I can. I buy things for what they are
if you see something for say, a particular EV that has a 400 mile range you might go ‘ooh that’s interesting’ and follow it up.
.. and you may not buy an EV but that search and all the other people looking it up boost the ad's profile or value and make it more likely to be put in front of someone who is going to make a purchase in the near future. It's all about fighting for people's attention.
The ad companies must research the shit out of it, but does anyone else think they are pretty much immune to it? I don’t think I ever make a purchase based on advertising.
but you almost certainly do. Not many people watch an advert and immediately rush to the shops, it’s done so next time you are in buying mode you recognise their product/brand of have them front of mind when you think of that need.
If I want something, I’ll research it, ask for recommendations or make a choice based on what’s easily available locally.
on EVERYTHING? You go to all that effort for toothpaste, baked beans, deoderant, etc? Let’s take car insurance - how did you last buy car/house insurance? Did you use a comparison site? How did you pick the comparison site? Once on the site did you pick the cheapest or did you feel comfort for a name you knew that was £1 or £2 more expensive? Did you try going direct to any of the insurers that don’t operated through comparison sites? How would you even know they exist?
TV advertising in particular is utterly baffling to me, I’ll often see one and remain utterly clueless as to what the product or service even is, let alone be motivated to buy it.
I had a discussion with advertising people in the late 90s about this phenomenon - and it’s simple if you don’t get the ads you are not the target demographic for it. Take the stupid tango ads of the era - essentially the market fro the product is everyone, but the bit that is influencable was young people (and of course their power to influence older people). 30 years later - that brand equity means they are probably the most successful orange fizz in the U.K. Would you fancy making a competitor product and competing purely on its taste/mouth feel etc?
direct advertising doesn’t influence his purchasing decisions.
Yep, but I think that describes most people, doesn't it? I think unless you're in the market for a new phone for instance and you see an ad that is offering the brand you like at a discount, then all other times, we'd all happily walk past an advert for a phone and pay it no mind at all....
Take the stupid tango ads of the era
Stupid? You are talking about the finest advert ever made. The work of unbridled genius….
I notice the 'PSA' thread is now up to 2,443 posts of people helpfully passing on companies' advertising.
Presumably before they nip into this thread to insist they haven't seen an advert since 1943 😉
When I see an add for a JLR vehicle, what I don't think is 'ooo I'm going to get one of those' and pod out £80-130k. What I mainly think is 'you've got to be ****en joking, What idiot would spend thst amount on such an unreliable POS that will halve in value in 2 weeks and guaranteed to leave you stranded at 10pm at the side of the road with the hazard warning lights on.
When I see adverts for cruises, my reaction is '**** that, hell on earth. I genuinely would prefer to go to work for a fortnight if that was the alternative'.
And I've definitely not started pishing my pants in order to use Tena-Lady.
The last A of AIDAA is advocate. Even if you aren't the recipient of the AIDA, in asking for recommendations you're the recipient of the last A who were the recipients of of the AIDA. They get you in the end, guilty of joint enterprise (sort of)
Putoline is interesting because TJ is one of the biggest advocates on here. Not having a go, because it is excellent....they've managed to get him to A without any of the AIDA!! An advertising execs dream!!
Must admit that Tango ad is the first one I've seen that uses the idea "xenophobia sells".
We've all seen your touring bike TJ, it's the most influencer based build I've ever seen. 😉 The Rohloff for a start, some clever advertising I saw years back got tandem users, tourers and some MTBers intersted and they started to appear on bikes. Magazine articles appeared, fresh goods Friday sort of stuff where companies send stuff out to be tested and returned or as a freebie (been there done that) and the hype mounted. I came really close to buying a Rohloff then tried one and was appalled by the lack of efficiency in the lower range gears and gave up on the idea.
If you don't advertise you barely exist.
