edlong, that's exactly why he sounds as good as he does, imho. Much like Hendrix, he just relaxes and makes use of his innate ability to produce something extraordinary.
How long you been playing?
It just taken me the 26 years to get to a level I'm reasonable happy at! 😆
Basically time and perseverance is everything. Learn lots of songs and I'd suggest learning some theory too(massive learning curve on that mind, piano helps alot there, it makes much more sense, once you get it seems simple but it's a long road there to grasp the concepts.)
aye that inate ability had nothing to do with his years playing with bands learning millions of songs and playing the guitar every waking minute of his life! 😆Much like Hendrix, he just relaxes and makes use of his innate ability to produce something extraordinary
Also idea that Hendrix never knew theory is nonsense too. He may not have known academic names for things but he would have learning all the theory he knew from the songs he learned.
Theory is all about intervals after all at its core. Which is essentially patterns.
It really helps to have a goal to work towards to give your practise a purpose and direction. For me its being able to play solo acoustic fingerstyle folk, blues and pop pieces so my practise is all about learning tunes from tab and videos and learning how to arrange a song by coming up with bass and accompaniment to go with the melody line and figuring out how to do that with three fingers and a thumb (I have the full compliment of thumbs and fingers its just the little finger isn't used for fingerstyle).
I would quite like to learn how to noodle, tbh, just because.
If by noodling you mean improvisation then its like learning a language. You learn words (licks) and then put them together in sentences. For blues it would be learning the pentatonic scale in all its positions then learning licks in all those positions, playing around with those licks to vary them and make them your own then sticking on a backing track and putting them together. That would then give you the basis to move into classic rock improv as well. To go further into stuff like Satriani or Vai you need more theory to be able to use the modes and also technique like legato, sweep picking, tapping etc
The main thing is when you have worked out what you need to practise then its consistency. Play every day if you can and depending on what standard you want to achieve bank on it taking at least a couple of years before starting to be happy with what you are playing. Progress happens very slowly so you have to stick at it and trust you will get better. Its a marathon not a sprint. Also record yourself. That's a humbling experience to start with but it will highlight any deficiencies in your playing a lot of which you don't hear when you are actually playing. Then a few months later have a listen to those recordings, compare them with your current recordings and I guarantee you'll be surprised how much you've improved.
I first got a guitar when I was 15 so been 'learning' quite a while 🙂
I know a bit of theory already. I know my way round the blues scale of course, as anyone who listens should to, but what impresses me is those guitarists who can move between scales and keys and make it part of the music.
head over to reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/ is an excellent forum. start to get to know the modes.
If by noodling you mean improvisation
Not quite what I meant by it when I said it originally
I was more talking about the casual pissing about playing a bit of this and a bit of that instead of concentrating on a firm goal that lots of people tend to do.
I know my way round the blues scale of course, as anyone who listens should
Sounds like you're quite the dandyman and not the n00b you initially claimed. Get thee to a music teacher!
Sounds like I'm about as crap at guitar as you. Here's what I have learnt in the last year of taking it up again after a long lay off.
There's messing about and there's practice.
Messing about has value e.g. playing songs you learnt a while ago, strumming chords, pentatonic noodling, etc.
Practice is different - it has discipline and intention e.g. scales to a metronome, new scales, new licks, new chords and inversions, theory. It can sound boring and mechanical, but all the You Tubers (and players) I admire have this at their core. It's how to get better.
I'm not there yet by a long way.
Also since you mention the blues scale, are you just randomly playing the blues scale and that's it, or are you thinking in chords, ie target notes and tension notes? the blues scale starts to come more alive when you think in those terms rather than just endlessly noodling without direction. You can play outside the blues scale, thinking about the variable 3rd in particular on the chords.. helps if you can think of chords in terms of 1,3,5 major, 1,b3,5 minor 1,3,5,b7 dom7 etc etc etc.
Sounds like you can play to be honest (unlike me!). I find Justinguitar excellent and he caters for all levels.
TS
It used to be hard to learn guitar - you either shelled out for lessons and hoped the teacher was good or bought those utterly useless tab books.It's so easy now with all the tutorials on youtube, I've been playing for over thirty years but I've probably learnt more in the last 5 of those.
Just look up a song you fancy playing and find a tutorial that sounds about right.
Init! I'm self taught pretty much, which means I had a really ignorant teacher. Learnt a few chords from a folk songs book with my sister's nicked nylon string. After a few months realised that an E chord moved up a fret became an F - musical theory right there! - and left the ground playing with mates and annoying the neighbours.
But learning a bit of jazz meant working out chords and riffs by ear from Louis bleedin' Armstrong records. Kids today, including those of us well through middle age, don't know we're born.
or are you thinking in chords, ie target notes and tension notes?
Not sure what you mean, but I do try to change it around.
Biggest problem is my fingers, they just want to do what they always do, not what I want them to do. I think I just need scales and drills.
I mean your solos need to follow the chords, chords tones aren't the only thing you should play, but they are crucial to build your solos around so they are sounding like they are following the harmony.
Do you know what a root note is? Do you know the major scale?(learn this if not, everything is based of it.) do you know how chords are built? do your know chord arpeggios? extended chords etc?
(just giving you things to google here btw. You sound like you are ripe for learning some proper theory, spend a lot of time on that forum I linked.)
That solo with Gibbons and Slash is an example of target notes. The song goes from the key of A to the key of C as the solo starts. To start the solo you bend to C on the 11th fret of the B string and hold, you then run down to the pentatonic to C - 10th fret D string. after that there are the forward and back slides, finishing on C each time - get the idea, on each part of the lick you target C.
From personal experience. I find these computer based interfaces, libraries and multi effects units pretty crap from a learning point of view. I have found a good amp set up not to loud with a touch of reverb and delay and a good loop pedal. This way you get to learn what chord progressions work well with simple licks and runs. Pedals are always the way to go. A small pedal board set up makes playing a lot more fun. Easier to find your favourite tones. I have a Boss ME25 multi effects unit, never use it still in the box.
Or a modelling amp which will have the most popular pedals. Junior hasn't used a guitar pedal since I bought him a Mustang IV head.
I'm a vote for abelton live (recording and a whole lot more) + scuffham s-gear. (amp sim) tremendous! 🙂
Firslty @mols you are materially less crap than me. Based upon your posts sounds like you have your bad habits well practiced (something a golf teacher told me once, I had really practiced my faults and perfected them). You do sound like you need some inspiration and some new practice drills and dare I say it some well taught lessons. Are there Guitar workshops you can go to to practice / jam in company ?
I think Jam is right (for a change).
Do you know what a root note is? Do you know the major scale?(learn this if not, everything is based of it.) do you know how chords are built? do your know chord arpeggios? extended chords etc?
Answer yes to those. Thing is, I don't read anything guitar or music related so I don't know the terms for most of this stuff, but I do understand it.
From personal experience. I find these computer based interfaces, libraries and multi effects units pretty crap from a learning point of view.
The only reason for the computer is to stand in for bandmates I don't have. Having a drum loop, and optionally recording a bass line over it really forces my fingers to play properly, and to press on when I make a mistake. The ready-made drum loops are also inspiration for style.
Listening to lots of different types of music and musicians, I often think "damn, I wish I could play guitar/bass like [insert name here], I've even got a nice Sigma acoustic I bought forty-something years ago, and a JHS Rickenbacker copy; what I realised after a while is that, no matter how many hours I sat and plodded away, all it would achieve is a kind of instrumental karaoke, I don't have a creative bone in my body, and I'd rather invest the time listening to people who can create music that lifts my soul.
And I never have enough time to listen to the music I already have, let alone the new stuff I keep discovering!
😀
I'd go onto eBay and buy a shubb capo.
There's copies available for a couple of quid.
Place the capo behind the second fret and tune back to regular pitch across all six strings, so that you end up with EADGBE.
With the shorter scale length, it will be much easier to stretch for chords and much easier to press down on the strings.
It'll prolly feel like cheating!
Do you really though? As you didn't know what I meant by target notes, that's a fairly fundamental concept to understanding.
btw you don't need to know how to read music to know theory, i only read a wee bit. (incidentally I'm not claiming to be a know all here, far from it, I've just had some eureka moments over the last years, so I'm quite keen on it! millions and million still to learn!)
Lets test you a bit. Off the top of your head, if i'm play a Dm chord, what can you play over the top of it, and what are the target notes?
Also, as for practice, yes it if you are having trouble with the mechanics of the guitar and your fingers. Then that's just practising different things, all the time, mix it up, that's just time and experience. Forget about 20 minutes per day though, play until you fingers hurt, not so much that you cause yourself injury, but play for hours on end every day. When you are too fatigued, take a week off. (Again I ain't claiming no guitar god status, far from it! well aware of my deficiencies! We all think we are crap, but it's relative! 🙂 )
As for what to practice, here's a start
rick beato is a gold mine of information, fairly advanced though. He's hundred of videos that'll keep you going.
btw this is probably a bit OT, but these are well worth watching 6 of them.
As you didn't know what I meant by target notes
I might understand the concept, but I just don't know that name for it.
Well if you get it you now know the name for it. Canny speak Spanish if you don't know the words! 😉
But theory is more than names mind it's a map of compositional (or noodling) possibilities.
Dm chord
There's a Dm chord in Thunder road which is in the key of F. So logically I'll put my little finger on F on the E chord to find the first position pentatonic.
*picks up guitar and noodles over Thunder road* - that works, first position pentatonic with index on 10th pinky on 13th.
There's an F in the Dm chord too so targeting F when I'm playing the Dm in Thunder road seems a safe bet.
*noodles some more to Thunder road*
F works, the D sounds pretty good too as this is Dm.
Over the song as a whole C seems a good point to turn around.
So I'll go with F, D and ( C ).
Well teacher ? 😉
I've just started to learn the guitar as one of those bucket list things.
Rocksmith has been ok but I don't think it's really an aid to actually learning but fun to mess about with. I have found Youtube the most helpful some of the posters really break stuff down. I doubt i'll ever be any good but it's something to do on rainy days.
Teacher 😆
Well the target notes are DFA for the main chord, ie the chord tones. But all 12 notes are always available at all times, you're only ever a half step away from some sort of resolution, if you play a "wrong" note in a sense. (No such thing as a wrong note, just wrongly implemented!). Passing notes are always available.
You can think of it many ways, having just the 1 chord playing under opens this up tremendously(Even more so if you omit the 3rd and just play D5, that'll open up the major side of things too). You can essentially play anything you like, depending on the flavour you are after.
You can think in terms of the upper chord extentions, so basically any chord that contains DFA will work. There are loads of possibilities here, I'm not even going to start listing them! 😆 But say my intention is to get the sound of a certain chord then you should be emphasising which ever chord tones above that too, again you aren't just limited to the chord tones, but you want to be resolving to then. If other instruments are heavy on one note, say the root, you can omit this from your playing, jazzists do that all the time, particularly the root.
With pentatonics Dm Pentatonic that you you can play DFGAC, you can also play for exmple the Am pentatonic, that contains 2 notes D and A, so you can include the 3rd too from the main chord, D [u]F[/u] A C E G, That'll give you a Dm9/11 flavour.
You can think in terms of modes, so there you have D natural minor(Aeolian) - D E F G A Bb C, D Dorian - D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D, D Phrygian - D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C, D, D Harmonic minor - D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C#, D Dorian #4(4th mode of harmonic minor) - D E F G# A B C. D melodic minor - D E F G A B C# D, D dorian b2 (2nd mode of the melodic minor) - D, Eb, F, G, A, B, C, D... And essentially what ever other mode or scale contains the notes D, F & A.
With modes you can easily mix and match, which is mode mixture/modal interchange. It's just ways of organising the 12 tones in your brain.
Thing is this only works over a single chord, when you start introducing other chords, then it forces you into keys and the likes, and starts to limit your choices(which is what composition is, making choices), unless you want to deliberately jar odd keys against each other(then crack on nothing wrong with that if that's what you are after).
Anyhow, this is just a rough overview of how I see things and terms I try to think in (I emphasise the word [b]try[/b] there 😆 , I've obviously got the bits that I prefer to use and [b]I'm still very much learning[/b]!)
The possibilities are wild tbh. But the chords you play dictate what you can and can't play. It all depends on the flavour you are after.
Hm.. That's very theory heavy.
I don't know that much theory, so I think in terms of shapes. For a given chord shape, you add a finger here, it sounds like this, a finger there it sounds like that. So when playing, I want to hear this sound, or that sound, then I put my finger here and here. From what I can tell, it seems like 90% of guitarists do the same thing. But it's the 10% that don't that are of interest.
Wondering if seosamh77 started on the piano?
that works, first position pentatonic with index on 10th pinky on 13th.
Wait.. I thought if your index finger is on 10 then it's 10th position?
Only really started thinking in terms on notes when I started learning the piano 6 months ago as it works differently and the shapes don't work quite the same way.
On the guitar I generally think in terms of shapes, but the shapes are numbered and named, based of the major scale.
Ie I think of the major scale as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. I think of major pentatonic as 1,2,3,5,6. I think of minor pentatonic as 1,b3,4,5,b7 etc etc. I think of Dorian as 1,2,b3,4,5,6,b7. That's what is ment when I say everything is based of the major scale.
Things really start to make sense when you number them and understand how that works.
that works, first position pentatonic with index on 10th pinky on 13th.
Wait.. I thought if your index finger is on 10 then it's 10th position?
Yes, but no. I think in this case the poster meant pentatonic box/shape 1 at the 10th fret.
edit- I just found this-
It's a bit Comic Book Guy but still watchable and learnable from.
Your fifth paragraph is about where my brain and ears fail to relate theory to practice at present.
Thing is that's only really thinking in terms of notes, when you start thinking in terms of chords on the modes that's where the biggest benefit comes imo, ie when you can relate the chords under to the notes.
ie base chords are: (there are more)
C Major - CMaj7, Dm7, Em7, FMaj7, G7, Am7, Bm7b5
C Dorian - Cm7, Dm7, Ebmaj7, F7, Gm7, Am7b5, BbMaj7 (same as Bb, but that's what modes are, changing the tonal centre of keys.)
etc etc.
I should have said pentatonic shape/box, Molgrips, as kayala realised. So DFGAC starting with D on 10th fret of E string. There are five pentatonic shapes and the first one starting on the low E at the 10th fret is 10-13, 10-12, 10-12, 10-12, 10-13, 10-13.
Try it on Thunder Road through the first half of the song as seosamh77 raised the Dm thing..
Edit: Most of the songs I play and sing only need four or five chords and variants thereof, seoamamh77
Edukator - Reformed TrollEdit: Most of the songs I play and sing only need four or five chords and variants thereof, seoamamh77
well that's a fair point in itself. Not everyone needs to know loads of theory, if people are happy with the knowledge they have, all good. I'm just firing out concepts on the basis that the op was wondering how people can switch scales etc etc. theory is how. But there's no necessity to learn it. Take what you need, discard the rest! 🙂
Though saying that, going on about 10th fret 1 pentatonic box 10-13, 10-12 etc etc is an incredible awkward way of communicating.
Well everyone I play with is French. Doh, Ré, gamme ... etc. so my English musical vocab is generally passive.
Good thread this, thanks. I will come back to it.
molgrips - Member
Good thread this, thanks. I will come back to it.
phew, think I've ran out of things to waffle about anyhow! 😆
really useful stuff guys thanks - seosamh77 you are as big a theory nerd as me 🙂
Has anyone got any good tips on resources for specific guitar techniques and practice drills? I'm a sax player who has limited guitar skills but I need guidance on how to play scales/lead, I can play open chords/barre, rhythm etc from what I've applied from other instruments and theory knowledge - basically my fingers run out of talent past the basic stage !
welcome to my world.
have been trying to play guitar on and off for 25 years now but am still rubbish.
edhornby - Member
really useful stuff guys thanks - seosamh77 you are as big a theory nerd as meHas anyone got any good tips on resources for specific guitar techniques and practice drills? I'm a sax player who has limited guitar skills but I need guidance on how to play scales/lead, I can play open chords/barre, rhythm etc from what I've applied from other instruments and theory knowledge - basically my fingers run out of talent past the basic stage !
Justin guitar is as good as anyone tbh.
Thing is I've never really followed any such course or anything, just always have guitars lying out in the living room right next to where I can pick it up and play what ever I feel like at the time. Which has always been more heavily based on just noodling about, hence my interest in theory. i've never had any set way to learn just whatever i'm interested in at the time and i've never really looked to one place either, i just google things as I find out about them.
Best advice, don't put your guitars in cases, always leave them lying about within reach of whereever you are!
That's basically my piano strategy at the moment, it sits in my living room, so I just switch on whenever i fancy a shot and do the first thing that comes to my head. Try and mix up whatever you are doing though, if you are struggling try something different, then go back to it. Practice in that sense isn't linear. Doing something else and a wee break is actually helpful rather than obsessing over one thing.
Essentially learn through sheer brute force of persistence, hours and variety.
Yeah that's alright unless you have family members in the house 🙂 Also, I'm too shy to let them listen to my crappy plinging.. that was always my problem practising. Less of a problem on an electric guitar than with a trombone mind.
This young lady's rather good:
Essentially learn through sheer brute force of persistence
This ^^^
I'm too shy to let them listen to my crappy plinging
And they probably don't want to listen to you practising either 😉
Its important to find a practise space where you can leave everything either set up or where it can be quickly set up so that when you have an hour spare you can get started with no messing about and make the most of it.
