[Closed] I'm almost at the end of my tether here, sorry this is a bit long

I assume you have tried a Halti/Hilti? I can hold both my mate alstation? with my little finger with those.
No help with anything else.

Yup, she wears a Halti - it stops her pulling as hard as she used to, but as soon as she sees something to chase she just ignores it and jumps, twists, pulls to try to get away from me and to chase whatever she's seen.

email DogBorstalEmails@bbc.co.uk, or call 020 8752-4875.

http://www.thedogownersclub.co.uk/contact.html

might be able to help.

Ignore - double post.

I really like the New Skete Monks approach in Raising a Puppy, - can it it from Amazon. We have had similar problems, lots of thoughts here and willing to chat, email in details

It's perhaps inevitable that a dog left so long alone and so often will present problems.

Think of the life you'll gain as a result of humanely relieving yourself of the burden your dog has become. Perhaps admitting, to yourself, that managing your dog is something you can't do alone and seeking its re-homing or, as a last resort, destruction is the only way you'll rescue some quality of life for yourself.

grittyshaker - I agree. It wasn't meant to turn out this way - my life was different when I took her on, so now I need to change something. It's not just me, I want her to have a nice life too. Problem is, she took 2 years to settle in, and everyone who knows us says how much she loves me. So, 2 more years to settle somewhere? What if they get fed up with the barking, destruction, wee, hair, pulling and move her on again? What if she ends up tied up in a breaker's yard? Or with gipsies? That's the thought that's kept me going up until now, that what I offer is significantly better than what she had (drug dealers) and what might happen if her next owners can't hack it.

Lionheart YGM

Saccades - thanks, have emailed them.

Please don't take this as being nasty or mean but I think you have the wrong breed of dog - regardless of the dog's issues - for you.

That said, if you're always on edge about how the dog is going to react to anything then they are going to pick this up. Additionally, they can't diferenciate between good attention and bad attention.

If they get a lot of attention due to their bad behaviour then they will continue acting like it. If they get a lot of attention for good behaviour and ignored for bad behaviour they will gradually stop behaving badly.

This, of course, doesn't apply to a dog that has suffered a major trauma. In this case a dog will need a lot of time and effort.

You seem quite fragile so I apologise if what I'm about to say seems harsh.. But it seems you may have lost sight of the fact that you have a working dog not a house pet and it may actually have a happier life outdoors tied up in a breakers yard or with gypsies (WTF?) than stuck alone in your house.

I took on a 9 year old Husky/German Shepherd that had some .... issues. I took him to classes, did everthing that I thought I should, etc etc etc

Pet dog trainers couldn't do much, so in the end I called out an ex copper (dog section). It cost me about £180 for his visit, but he was great.

I'd suggest looking at the[url= http://www.bipdt.org.uk/index.html ]British Institute of Professional Dog Trainers[/url]page as opposed to a pet dog trainer., or I can give you his details if you want to ask him if he can recommend someone in your area.

It's a shame you don't have somewhere secure to let him run free though.

Juust a thought, these two organisations may be able to recommend someone to help (rescues don't just re-home,they may be able to help):

[url= http://www.dobermannrehome.co.uk./ ]Doberman Rehoming[/url]

[url= http://www.dobermannwelfare.org.uk/ ]Doberman Welfare[/url]

The farmer allows us to go in her fields, so Missy gets to run around free then, plus this site is quiet so I can let her out in the evening and we play kill the glove (she likes gloves). She goes outside on a long lead, on a spike in the grass, so she gets a certain amount of freedom that way. I have tried to make enclosures for her, but if she sees something she goes utterly mad - jumping, growling, barking - she launches at whatever she's seen - crashing into whatever is in her way, scratches/beats down enclosures/barrels through hedges, tries to get out of the window. Thing is, it's all fear-driven. If she can get to whoever she's chasing, she doesn't actually do anything, she just runs round them sort of jumping and yipping. Obviously, I can't allow that.

GW. Yes, very fragile and very upset, but, have to do the right thing. BTW, most dogs are working dogs, and part of Missy's remit is to guard me and the caravan. A lot of Dobes are left for extended periods as guard dogs. Dobes were bred for companionship and guarding originally.

double post

Hi there,
just like to say,I understand your frustration with your Dobe,I've go a male aged two,he was snipped about 8 months ago,and it has calmed him slightly,but the thing that has worked is time and patience.They are perhaps the most loving and faithful breed of dog,but also one of the most strong willed,stubborn,head strong pig headed breed.
I excersise him (off the lead) for around two hours a day,every day,rain,shine ,whatever the weather,with out this release he his a nightmare,no question.
Of course,with a rescue dog you've got so many more issues to work through,and she will need extra love and affection,but as importantly,she needs a pack leader to look to,and that's got to be you.
It is a very slow process,but you need to be firm with her,as has been mentioned,praise good behavior,ignore bad,this is crucial.

one thing that may help with walking her on the lead is this,when she starts pulling/jumping about,turn and walk the other way,yes you'll look a bit weired in the street,but eventually she'll get fed up,and start to heel,I take it you are teaching her this command ?

Treats work well for recall training (try cocktail sausages !)

also if you've got access to a field ,let her loose,call her back and if she doesn't respond,hide ! it will work.

have you tried long lead training for recall ?

I hope some off this is some help,if you would like any more info,or to discuss further,feel free to email me (addy in profile)
Keith.

As others have said- get some professional training help. I had a German SHepherd that was a nightmare in the same way that you mention, and after paying for a number of one 2 one training sessions with a specialist, we gradually ironed out most of the issues.

The suggestion about ignoring bad behaviuor is a good one. My dog used to bark and pull like mad at anyone else on the street - however if I dropped the lead and turned around and walked off, she stopped instantly and came to heel. A few weeks of this and she stopped barking and pulling.

Karinofnine,

I'm not wanting to sound harsh but I really do think you have choosen the wrong breed of dog. If keeping her undercontrol is causing you such physical problems then you have the wrong breed.

You state that security is one reason for your choice, well any breed of dog will defend it's owner and property (even the humble Golden Retriever if danger really is present).

You want to do the right thing but that shouldn't be to your detriment. There's been some really good advice posted so far and by all means gett trying but don't rule out that the best thing for both of you may be to pass her onto one of the Doberman charities (with full disclosure).

Try a [url= http://www.cannydogcollar.co.uk/?gclid=CI-v5MevyqACFQs-lAodRRqDaQ ]Canny collar[/url]. We found it works better than a Halti for our dogs.

The Canny Collar looks good. Will try it. Thanks

Thanks everyone.

I'm in touch with the Dobermann Welfare Association, have emailed Dog Borstal and have noted your suggestions.

You can't leave any dog lone for that long. There will be some smart erse along in a bit to say you can, but you can't. Especially a dog that has issues.

I'm sorry to say but (IMHO) you are not in a position to have a dog. I wanted a dog since I left home but didn't get one until I was in a position to really have a dog ie 2 of us, with the time and space. You've not got the dog trained either - and that makes things worse for both of you. Sorry - but thats how I see it.

Oh dear, you sound really quite upset, your clearly trying to help and care very much so I really hope you find something that works. Sorry, I don't know anyhitng about dogs so I can't offer any suggestions, but I want to to say I really hope you find something that works for you, hopefully for your dog too.

I haven't got anything useful to add, so all I can offer is a virtual hug.

i'm going to upset a lot of people here but i don't care.
are you being firm enough and letting her know who's boss?
i don't believe in abusing animals but a smack or punch to the head/shoulder works wonders or failing that nipping their ear with your teeth works too.

my cousin took in a 1year old staffy in that was uncontrollable. within half an hour of getting it in the house he had it pinned to the ground literally sitting on top of him growling in his ear (after it snapped at him). after that he was good as gold.
a friend with a rescued english bull terrier did something similar, every time he gave it a biscuit it would snap at him so he punched it in the head, it bit him twice more then started to realise that snapping resulted in a punch and not to bite the hand that feeds you.

dogs are pack animals and will assume they are the alpha male/female unless you show them otherwise.

Your suggesting nibbling the ears of this;

[img] [/img]

😥

Karin - ygm.

My God I hope this is a wind up, if not put the poor creature to sleep, it's you that needs the help not the [s]dog[/s] dag.

Sorry.

so he punched it in the head, it bit him twice more then started to realise that snapping resulted in a punch and not to bite the hand that feeds you.

Oh dear....

Karin, don't give up on your dog. It's taken us over 3 years to get Ted where we're happy with his behaviour most of the time. The biggest step forward was going to basic obedience classes. Not for getting him to sit etc, he could do that, Rather for him to socialise with the other dogs, and learn to concentrate on us when there were so many distractions.

It does sound as if your dog is home alone for too long. Is there any way you could go home in the day? Do you have a neighbour who could walk her, or perhaps a professional dog walker who could walk her at lunchtime?

Fear aggression can be overcome, but it's not easy. As hard as it can be, do not lose your temper with her. Very hard to keep it all inside, especially when you are frustrated, but I know from experience that one loss of temper can set you back enormously (usualy before you even realise you've made progress)

More than anything I think you should (if you haven't) find STW for dobermanns and join in there.

There is some debate about the idea of establishing yourself as packleader. I personally think it's a good place to start, but Mr Smith's methods are so wrong I can't believe I'm reading it. Try googling NILIF for a more humane approach.

Ultimately, if you don't have the time you might have to consider rehoming her. It needn't be a tragedy, you both might feel enormously happier after a short while. (Been there, done it with a saluki lurcher several years ago. It broke my heart to hand him back, but it was best for all of us.)

Time spent with your dog is your most valuable tool, perhaps bite the bullet, go for longer walks / several training sessions per week (Costs, I know) and give up / cut down on the riding? (Until you see some progress at least.)

Most of all, I hope it all works out for you and Missy. My dog is the source of enormmous fulfilment, but it's been a bumpy ride to get here. Try as hard as you can, but don't make both of your lives a misery if it's just not going to work out.

Mr Smith's methods are so wrong I can't believe I'm reading it.

they are not "my methods"
and i would argue that the owners methods before those with a firm hand came to their rescue were far more 'wrong'. the 2 dogs are now happy in their current homes with owners that adore them.

and 3 years to sort your own dogs behavior out? that's 21 human years!
maybe you need a different method 🙂

with owners that adore them.

Yet punch them in the head. Karin has a dog with fear aggression, just how do you think it will react to a bit of a beating for expressing that fear?

that's 21 human years!

Please be trolling.....(and tell me you don't own a dog.)

sitting them on the naughty step and then explaining where they went wrong and getting them to apologise is better than sending them to bed without their winalot

TooTall, if you read my post you will see that I took on Missy when my life was different from how it is now. I cannot see into the future.

The very first dog expert I had (in week 1) couldn't believe the strong bond the dog had formed with me and the caravan. I think that is important.

I used to have a dog walker who Missy liked. I have tried others, if she doesn't like them, she won't go with them, if they manage to coax her out of the caravan, she pulls out of her collar and comes home. Then she wets her bed to let me know that she's been upset.

She has come on enormously well in so many ways since I've had her.

I have just moved, so feeling lonely and disorientated. My back and leg are killing me, and my car has been away for repairs for FOUR WEEKS.

I'm going to: find a dog walker who she likes, do some training on the turbo trainer, see about reducing my days back to 3, get some professional help with the fear aggression.

Thanks all.

[img] [/img]

try these people in digswell, welwyn herts. just round the corner from us

http://www.thedobermannclub.co.uk/

best wishes

sorry if this has already been said i didnt read the whole thread ....

you could try this http://www.doggiesolutions.co.uk/dap-collar-dog-appeasing-pheromone-9451-0.html

it worked well with my jack russells separation anxiety.....

just to clarify, how long do you leave the dog and how bigs your caravan?

or is he crated inside the caravan, and if so for how long?

I think the one who provides the food is no.1 in the pack rather than someone who punches dogs in the head 😕
Good luck Karin, I've got a dog and am in similiar circumstances to you, tho' thankfully Jim the Greyhound is about the most laid back dog you could meet. But he has taken 4 years to get him to the stage where he is quite confident with other dogs- was never aggressive, but would run off or freeze to the spot. (then some co#k in the park this morn had some horrid little terrier that attacked him , hopefully it wont set him back)
Soz for long post

Karinofnine

I share my 2 dogs with the ex and the most they are left alone is 6 hours and that is rare. It makes a huge difference having 2, as even a few hours is a long time for a dog and they keep each other company. In addition, they give each other loads of exercise chasing around off the lead, far more than I could offer even walking for hours a day. I am not suggesting you get another dog as it may compound the situation, but it might be worth discussing with the professionals you are talking to. I don't think you are in the N.East but if you are I could recommend someone who is excellent.

Mr Smith has a point (although I would not punch a dog) in that a dog is a pack animal and has to learn/accept what is right and wrong according to the pack leader. I have used the 'pin to the floor growling' method to good effect but that is only valid when it is a direct challenge to the owner and not in the case where the dog has other issues.

I really hope it goes well for you and the 3 days at work will make a difference. Good luck.

I agree with some of the posters here. If your OP is correct, you're leaving Missy for four days a week for about 12 hours (?) at a time. That's way too long. No two ways about it. I would make an educated guess that Missy's problems can be solved but not by a new collar or a burst of training. What she needs can't be provided by you. I've trained dogs to be companions for disabled people and you can't overestimate the importance of calm, consistent, continuous attention. Sorry, but I think you need a proper re-think not a sticking plaster solution.

I read your post - you are not in a position to give the right dedication to a dog now, regardless of what went before. Even 3 x days alone is far too much. If the dog only goes with a dog walker 'who Missy likes' then the dog isn't trained enough for your lifestyle.
It doesn't matter whether you think the dog has bonded - it has so many issues (as do you with the dog) that you are physically degrading. That isn't right no matter how anyone looks at it. She is a 5 yr old dog with issues unresolved since you got her - thats going to be near impossible if you've not dealt with them properly yet.

Karinofnine checked your location. If you were local to me I'd offer to come round and walk her a couple of times a week.

Are there any cost effective dog walking services locally? I cant offer any behavioural advice. Just all the best. We potentially could be rehoming our Bingo soon. Its not something I want to do or look forward to but we are going to exhaust other avenues first.

Taken me 5 years to get my Dalmation under some sort of control, even now hes trouble if he wants to be. IMO you cant buy fixes, it just time spent keeping calm and in control of the dog. A dog knows when your being half arsed or have had enoufgh and will exploit it. Leaving it alone wont help, sorry.

TooTall - Member
I read your post - you are not in a position to give the right dedication to a dog now, regardless of what went before. ......

Yet the fact is that she is in the situation she's in, she does have have a dog, and she's not ready to give up on the dog and is seeking help. Good on her.

Take a look at the resue pages/free ads - there are far too many dogs given up at the first chance. If the OP does have to rehome her dog, then she'll be able to do so knowing that she tried her best.

All the best Karinofnine, I hope it all works out for you and your dog.

At the end of the day if you can't provide the attention the dog needs, it's better for all concerned if you find a more capable home for it. It's good that you're looking for a good solution, but I can't see any way out of this except to ensure the dog gets the attention it needs and you get some rest! Give other people a chance, if you're open about its faults and explain to whoever rescues/takes it, they'll nto take it if they don't feel able to deal with that. Your circumstances have changed, it's not your fault, but don't make both of you unhappy by dragging things on longer than is necessary to determine whether or not you can cope sensibly. Naturally I'd not suggest giving up instantly, that's the cowards way out, but after a certain time you realise that it's just not working for either person, I think you're sane enough to make the call on that timescale.

No experiences of dogs so won't offer any advice there.

From what I surmise I think it's admirable that you have taken on this dog with all her problems and you have clearly had her welfare foremost in your mind. I think to continue to do this, and to also prioritise your welfare higher, you should allow her to be re-homed somewhere better placed to meet her needs. It is a very strong step and a sign of your care for her admitting that you might not be best placed to look after her.

This is different but my girlfriend had a high emotional attachment to a pair of cats but they lived in a flat with no safe access outside. She could see it wasn't ideal and finally agreed to let a lady in her parents village who wanted cats to take them on where they had the quiet country life and could go outside. Although she misses the cats and felt at the time she was derelict in her duties to the cats, she is much happier now knowing they are happy. At the time, she needed the cats more than they needed her.

Anyway, good luck in resolving this. I hope your feeling and happiness take more prominence!

I've been thinking about this.

I'd bit the bullet and concentrate on finding her a new home that could offer her a loving environment (same as you really) but maybe with more time?

(I DONT mean to prise or assume anything by this)I think its possibly affecting potentially new relationships for you and moving on/happiness etc. The dog can also pick up on mood etc.

Start looking for a good home I say. Then you will feel confident and happy that she is with people who love her.

We did this when I was young. A pet of mine went to one of my aunts. I never went to see him but received updates. He lived a very long life and died in his sleep eventually 🙂

Easy to type, Hora. Not so easy in reality - http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-just-love-my-dog-so-much

Oh I know. We have a few issues with our Bingo (who we have mithered for 5yrs) and our newborn son. Obviously Bingo is 'wtf' and we are dont want to let him go.

Taylorplayer

The OP has had a dog, with issues, for 3.5 years. The dog isn't anything close to demonstrating what any responsible owner would call reasonable. The dog won't walk to heel, urinates without control, demonstrates agressive behaviour, won't respond to commands and won't be walked by 'anyone she doesn't like'. The OP then has to leave the dog alone, in a caravan, for some 40 hours a week. Perpetuating that situation isn't good for either party - it is downright dangerous for both if this continues. I own a rescue dog and I'd not be without him - but this thread is about something that, frankly, isn't going to get better. If the OP hasn't even got the dog walking to heel after 3.5 years, this is not going to end well.

I should point out that I was on a major downer when I wrote that first post and exaggerated the situation somewhat.

Now then, when I first got her if she saw a man she weed from fear. Now, she is more confident and very rarely does that. That is progress.

She has mild incontinence. That is controlled by Propalin.

She used to pull very hard on the lead all the time. Now she pulls when she sees a car. Progress.

She used to not come when she was called. Now she does, unless she is chasing a squirrel. Progress.

I am grateful to you all for your comments, even the negative ones. It is certainly food for thought.

TooTall, I tell the dog walker to encourage her to go with him/her but not to force the dog. Are you saying that I should tell the dog walker to drag her out of the caravan and make her walk? Don't you think that would cause her a great deal of stress?

BTW it is a big caravan, she is NOT crated and she can get out into the awning. I am making friends with my new neighbours, some of whom don't have to work, and one in particular has offered to walk her during the day.

I agree I have been negligent in addressing the car/bike/runner barking fear thing and your comments have prompted me to try some further help with it.

As for a social life for me, if I am honest, the simple and only reason I am lonely is because I haven't done anything about meeting people because I find it difficult (and I still miss my ex). Not the dog's fault at all, mine.

One last thing, I felt some of more negative posters were rather rude and hurtful and were not helpful given I was at a very low point. I'm so tempted to make a sarcastic remark but will resist.

Have a good day all.

That's more like it <thumbs up>

My bitch is on Propalin too. Happened almost as soon as she was spayed, which they didn't mention prior to the op but is not uncommon. The fact that her stitching looked like it had been done by a blacksmiths apprentice makes me highly suspicious re the whole thing and I suspect she might have been done by a trainee.

Don't worry about the social life (if you are that is ?)I've been in the same position for over a year and thoroughly enjoy being able to do exactly what I want, when I want (dogs and work excepted, of course).

Chin up and enjoy yourself. Dogs do tune into vibes so have fun 😉

Good to hear that Karin - after having briefly spoken to you at Swinley I could tell you didn't want to give up your dog (whereas mine could go tomorrow 😉 !)

Unfortunately some people just do not see the signs that indicate a person is struggling. Empathy is not just a female strength, some men have it too, but others are just far too quick to spout off in an unpleasant manner.

We do not live in a perfect world, some folk have all sorts of horrendous situations to deal with, we need to cut some slack sometimes.

Still reckon there's some really decent people on here though. 🙂

Karin - hang in there girl. You're definitely on the right track and are obviously totally committed to Missy and her well-being.

Karin, bookmark this thread. You can look at it when you feel like you did in your first post - and you'll be able to see from your last one that there [u]can[/u] soon be a time when you feel more positive and things look less black.

That's a much more positive attitude, I'm very pleased that you are obviously feeling better today 🙂

Just remember your dog loves you...

Sorry to just be negative, but you have to let that dog out during your shift. A dog should not be made to hold it's bladder for more than 8 hrs - surely this fact alone can't be helping her bladder problem.

The Artist

If you had read the OP's last post you would know that the dog has access to an awning and neighbours have volunteered to take her out during the day which should be a big help.

Ah, missed that line. My bad.

Hi. Thanks for your kind remarks. I am at home today, dicky tummy, set off this morning on the bike but significant rumbling forced a u-turn!

I am sitting on my bed and Missy is sitting on hers, at the other end of the caravan, watching what I call 'dog telly' (the birds in the hedge) and totally ignoring me - as usual.

DezB, thanks, you're a lovely man, and your friend is nice too.

Johnners - good idea.

Woody - the vet says it was the spaying operation that caused the incontinence - but they didn't mention it before the operation. Why? Stitches - Missy's are ok, but I have come to change my opinion of vets as selfless animal lovers to people who are probably still fond of animals but have a strong commercial interest. Social life - I see lots of people at work, I interact on here, I go on group rides. That's ok. I agree that doing what you want is great.

CG - I will ring you. Thanks.

DezB, thanks, you're a lovely man, and your friend is nice too.

Ay oop! Is this thread taking an unexpected turn? 😉

Well, even though I was on the Swingles ride, I'm a married man... otherwise... 😉

A cue to post [i]that[/i] pic of me and the wife, no doubt!

I can see your point re vets and commercial interests (same analogy as dentists saving a tooth, as once it's pulled, no further income from it!) but that has not really been my experience. I was quite shocked to discover how common incontinence is after spaying but on balance would probably have gone ahead anyway as there are +ve's re incidence of mammariam tumours etc.
Some good info [url= http://www.petplanet.co.uk/care_incontinence.asp ]HERE[/url]. Propalin seems to control it very well and the alernative ie. further investigation at a specialist centre and possible op/ops, which apart from the cost £2.5K+, would mean several days in Glasgow (170 miles away) which is the closest specialist vet surgeons, is not really an option. I don't know whether the collagen injection op is available in this country yet.

Coincidentally, my 2 came face to face with an 18 month old doberman on the morning walk today and the owner (male) was nearly pulled off his feet several times trying to hold it. In a brief chat he said it could never be let off the lead due to attacking other dogs + barking at passersby etc. He's had the dog from 6 months old. After a few minutes I called my dogs back and they all had a sniff, seemed fairly calm and while the doberman was obviously still a bit nervous of my 2 there was none of the aggression from a couple of minutes before. Does Missy mix with other dogs at all ? Just wondered as it seemed to have a good effect on the one I met this morning.

I have spent a lot of time socialising her to other dogs - and a lot of energy preventing other dog owners from allowing their off-the-lead dogs to hammer up to us barking madly, which unnerves her completely - and frankly I don't blame her for that.

She likes other dogs but is nervous and worse on the lead (she barks, I think, to make herself look scary to the other dog). She prefers to meet other dogs in a large space, she runs away a short distance and then advances at her pace, does her play-bow, and games commence. I love to see her with other dogs. Some neighbours live in a multi-yurt, they have two german pointers, the dogs have met, and I am optimistic that they will all become friends.

She is almost at the top dose of Propalin but apparently there is another drug which can be combined with it. We'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it. As I said before, she has the funny walk that may signal Wobblers later on. If Wobblers does develop and progress I will have her put to sleep rather than let her suffer pain. There is an operation but even vets say it is not always particularly effective and the recovery is long and painful.

I meet lots of people out walking, both doggy and non-doggy. The common theme seems to be that most guard-breed dogs are edgy, nervy dogs. If they are that way, it's not surprising that they react in an animated fashion when something or someone is advancing rapidly on them/their owner. I have worked hard to socialise her to all sorts of things, but I wonder if you can, or would want to, completely 'train out' a trait that has been in the breed since Herr Dobermann created his 'intelligent, loyal, protective companion'?

DezB - oooh! you are awful! lol

My 2 were on the lead this morning - they always are if I can't see for a good distance and were only let off while I chatted. It annoys me too when owners allow their dogs to do that as you can never be sure. Even the dog trainer I went to keeps hers on the lead. Her reasoning is that you can never rule out an attack (either way) no matter how much you think you know your dog! You certainly wouldn't want to train the breed traits out, that is one of the reasons (presumably) you got a Doberman.

Good luck anyway and I hope the Wobblers never transpires. It sounds like you are doing everything you can and are [b]very[/b] patient.

ps. had to Google it but I now know what a yurt is LOL 😆

One time I was on my bike in Broxbourne Woods, Hertfordshire. A very very big white English Bull Terrier appeared, alone, and ran in a deliberate way up to me. He jumped up at me and sniffed my face.

Even though I am a doggy person I very nearly had a clean-underpants-please moment.

The woman with the dog then appeared, chatting on a mobile phone (don't know how she had signal in a wood, but never mind), totally unconcerned and just walked past, kind of incidentally called the dog, which kind of incidentally eventually obeyed and ran off after her.

That kind of thing annoys me. What if the dog had done that to a child?

LOL that sort of thing happens to me frequently in my job and invariably it's a rottweiler or some sort of staffy cross. Never had a problem after the initial stand-off (lucky?) and they are usually very friendly, lovely dogs. I've been tempted to liberate them from their dealer/addict owners on a couple of occassions.

It does make you wonder though, that these dogs are usually incredibly loyal to their owners even though some of them are treated very badly. Proves, if nothing else, that it is vital to be the 'pack leader'.