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I was in Bristol on holiday recently and there was loads of these “conversions” being used for UberEats/ Deliveroo deliveries. They were all based on bicycles with pedals, but no pedalling was taking place, as above, seemed to have large front hub motor, often held together with gaffa tape.
Yeah, this seems to be the default mode of transport for the Deliveroo riders round ours too. Rider modified too to remove all semblences of common sense too.
“ Wait, what?”
Yep - I see them for sale sometimes on eBay or gumtree. Never seen one on the road. Must be terrifying.
I think there is an opportunity to increase the speed or capabilities of ebikes. Unfortunately the limits manufacturers put on them can always be worked around, and in a global economy where conversion kits are sold which are massively powerful they are always going to find their way onto UK roads somehow. Probably will continue until a legal ebike or scooter is available for legal use at a low enough price but has a decent turn of speed. Then it probably won’t be worth making your own.
He rode away on a 20 year old Spesh with v brakes powered by a 2 stroke
At least he'd stop pretty rapidly, right?
“ Yeah, this seems to be the default mode of transport for the Deliveroo riders round ours too. Rider modified too to remove all semblences of common sense too.”
They were all over the place in NYC when I went a few years ago. Seem like a great idea for local delivery services, over there they were longer wheelbase bikes and looked pretty capable.
He rode away on a 20 year old Spesh with v brakes powered by a 2 stroke
To clarify, oh you know what I meant!
😁
Wait, what?
Probably will continue until a legal ebike or scooter is available for legal use at a low enough price but has a decent turn of speed.
You mean like this?
Unless you mean something that does not require a license, VED, MoT, insurance, osv.
The cheap transport exists, but it's the extra bits that people don't want to pay for.
Yeah, this seems to be the default mode of transport for the Deliveroo riders round ours too. Rider modified too to remove all semblences of common sense too.
We have some of those, but mainly they're all one specific model of ebike:
Loads of them, all driven by Indian (or SE Asian) riders. At £1600 seems an expensive investment for Ubereats / Deliveroo etc.
Can confirm pushbikes with little 2 stroke motors on the streets of Birmingham also.
Pedal bike with motor 😕
Like this you mean ?
1909 Triumph. I'd have one in an instant.
As you raised it, yes they did do that with Brexit and with many other large changes without carefully controlled trials.
An eScooter than goes at 15.5mph, i.e. bicycle cruising speed, is no more dangerous than a bicycle going at 15.5mph. The different with bicycles is that they can go 30mph, for how long depends on distance. To put it in context, a fast runner can run at almost that speed.
Pedal bike with motor 😕
Like this you mean ?
More this, on a tatty old mountain bike, if you could imagine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384120491839?hash=item596f5d8f3f:g:MVcAAOSwuzFgQHLg
An eScooter than goes at 15.5mph, i.e. bicycle cruising speed, is no more dangerous than a bicycle going at 15.5mph.
Do you not think the smaller front wheel is a danger in itself ?. More likely to cause it to pitch over if it hits anything over a couple of inches 😕
More this, on a tatty old mountain bike, if you could imagine.
He had 2 and one's been sold. Could be to our A97 rider 😆
Loads of them, all driven by Indian (or SE Asian) riders. At £1600 seems an expensive investment for Ubereats / Deliveroo etc.
You must live in a proper posh area.
Down my way most Deliveroo riders can't afford to pay a fiver for front and back lights from Aldi.
Had quite a few throttle bikes in the shop, they get politely turned away as we recently broke on our bargepole.
Gotta love this place sometimes.
Riding an e-bike at double its legal unassisted limit: "well, that's about the same as a fast runner!"
Driving at 31mph in a 30 zone: "you're literally worse than Hitler!"
So if I duct tape Usain Bolt to my front bumper then I'm good, right?
... speaking as someone who was almost taken out on the pavement ten minutes ago by the latest favourite of the ****-about-town, the electric scooter. Little prick buzzed past me from behind with no warning and about two inches clearance, doing I don't know what speed but certainly faster than I could have run to catch him.
Down my way most Deliveroo riders can’t afford to pay a fiver for front and back lights from Aldi.
Even the posh bikes never seem to have functioning lights, I guess they get better range with them turned off!
Driving at 31mph in a 30 zone: “you’re literally worse than Hitler!”
So if I duct tape Usain Bolt to my front bumper then I’m good, right?
Try the rear bumper of your pickup truck, if you are after neo-nazi approval.
Olly
Free Member
they need to adjust the laws to help these things, not hinder their use.
Yip, the legal limit on ebikes with no license insurance etc should around 25/ 30mph tbh.
Personally, mines is set so I kick around about 21-24mph, 36x11 gearing in so start to pedal out not far beyond that.
Maybe that's the approach that should be took on ebikes, rather than power, a gearing limit should probably be applied.
Would make alot more sense.
Cougar
Full Member
… speaking as someone who was almost taken out on the pavement ten minutes ago by the latest favourite of the ****-about-town, the electric scooter. Little prick buzzed past me from behind with no warning and about two inches clearance, doing I don’t know what speed but certainly faster than I could have run to catch him.
tbh that kinda incident is really just an infrastructure problem more than anything else.
You can do that from the top of Ditchling Beacon to the centre of Brighton
You really can’t.
You really can’t.
Next you'll be telling me that you can't freewheel uphill. I see Deliveroo riders do it all the time.
tbh that kinda incident is really just an infrastructure problem more than anything else.
Er, you could say that about basically anything? The reason that it's not safe to drive everywhere at 100mph - infrastructure problem.
Perhaps the reason that electric scooters aren't legal is because the infrastructure isn't there for them. That doesn't been that "that kinda incident" is caused by the lack of infrastructure, it's caused by people using them inconsiderately.
Aidy
Free Member
tbh that kinda incident is really just an infrastructure problem more than anything else.Er, you could say that about basically anything? The reason that it’s not safe to drive everywhere at 100mph – infrastructure problem.
I'm all for autobahns, they're great, crack on. 😆
Aidy
Free Member
tbh that kinda incident is really just an infrastructure problem more than anything else.Er, you could say that about basically anything? The reason that it’s not safe to drive everywhere at 100mph – infrastructure problem.
Perhaps the reason that electric scooters aren’t legal is because the infrastructure isn’t there for them. That doesn’t been that “that kinda incident” is caused by the lack of infrastructure, it’s caused by people using them inconsiderately.
Yeah, but ebikes and scooters really should be at the forefront of a green transport revolution. So naw, fault lies with the government.
Yes, these things
https://images.app.goo.gl/cTFyFeBYKpTBWVH79
We had a few people bring them in the shop wanting servicing. They are bloody dangerous, will easily do 50mph, always built onto crap old MTB's bought for £50. The engine drives a sprocket which clamps to the spokes on the disc side, so you can't run a rear disc even if you want to.
One guy brought one in saying it was really wobbly at 55mph on the A9. When I looked at it, most of the NDS nipples had started pulling through the rim and the wheel was really floppy. This caused the tyre to rub on the chain stay wearing through it and the tyre was down to the last few threads. And 15mins earlier he'd been doing over 50mph on a dual carriageway!
I told him he had a choice. He could either leave it with us and collect it later in a car, or he could ride it away and I'd call the police. He left it with us. TBH he looked pretty shaken when I showed him the issues...
Do you not think the smaller front wheel is a danger in itself ?. More likely to cause it to pitch over if it hits anything over a couple of inches
Nope. Have you ridden one?
I’m all for autobahns, they’re great, crack on. 😆
So am I, but I wouldn't want to walk down the middle of one.
Gotta love this place sometimes.
Riding an e-bike at double its legal unassisted limit: “well, that’s about the same as a fast runner!”
Except I was referring to the legal 15.5mph scooters. And maybe a shock to you but a top marathon runner is travelling at close to 13mph for 2 hours...
a top marathon runner is travelling at close to 13mph for 2 hours…
Don't you just hate it when you're stuck behind one?
Cougar
Full Member
I’m all for autobahns, they’re great, crack on. 😆So am I, but I wouldn’t want to walk down the middle of one.
Yeah, that's where infrastructure and town planning coming in, discourage cars encourage ebikes and scooters, and as if by magic, there's alot more space on the roads for ebikes and scooters, and normal bikes.
Results in an overall more pleasant town or city centre.
Yeah, but ebikes and scooters really should be at the forefront of a green transport revolution. So naw, fault lies with the government.
That's kinda like saying that it's okay to steal bikes, because it's really a socio-economic problem, so it's really the government's fault.
Just because there's an underlying problem doesn't mean that the individuals concerned aren't dicks.
Nonsense. Not even close to the same thing.
Yip, the legal limit on ebikes with no license insurance etc should around 25/ 30mph tbh.
Personally, mines is set so I kick around about 21-24mph, 36×11 gearing in so start to pedal out not far beyond that.
Maybe that’s the approach that should be took on ebikes, rather than power, a gearing limit should probably be applied.
No, I think anything that can sustain 30 mph needs to be much more carefully regulated. A shitty old hardtail with rim brakes just isn't safe at those speeds. Standard bicycle parts just aren't up to being used as a motorbike, something fast enough and powerful enough to sustain 30 mph needs to be regulated as a motorbike.
They are perfectly capable. I've been horsing mine about on a 10 year old hardtail for a few years now off and on road. Perfectly safe. Probably safer on road tbh.
The power going through an ebike is nothing like what goes through a motorbike. They are very different.
Should we start licencing normal bikes too then? Roadies or people that go downhill faster than 30? It's the same principle really, cause maintenance level vary wildly there.
Tbh I could maybe understand arguments against them if the limit was anything other than arbitrary, but really that is all the 15.5mph is, someone plucked that number out their arse, which has now been adopted as some kina moral line in the sand. Which is just nonsense.
so what's happening when people (in cars) are being hit by one of these things? Because they are, right? Illegal modifications, travelling at illegal speeds (vs a legal ebike)...... but uninsured?
That's where the pressure is going to come from - police getting called to the scene of accidents, courts seeing cased brought against individuals for damage costs.
I assume that this has started happening already?
I could maybe understand arguments against them if the limit was anything other than arbitrary, but really that is all the 15.5mph is,
All limits are arbitrary to some degree. Usually, they're based on a simple number that is easy to remember. Having a speed limit set to 100 km/h makes more sense than 98.7 km/h. Average people who are paying minimal attention can generally drive a car in most conditions at 100 km/h. If you go much faster than that, the risk starts to increase quite a lot, but door to door times don't reduce by much. If you go much slower than that, a lot of drivers get frustrated and you end up with pressure to increase the limit. 100 km/h is a bit arbitrary, but it works ok. Some places have limits of 110 km/h, which is also arbitrary, others have different arbitrary limits. However, nobody seriously thinks that there should be no limits just because whatever limit you decide on is a bit arbitrary.
For e-bikes, a fit rider can ride faster than 15 mph on the flat, but averagely fit people can't sustain that for long. No averagely fit person can pedal a bike at 30 mph on the flat. Having a cutout limit set somewhere around 15 mph makes sense because e-bikes will be travelling at a similar speed to other riders, regardless of whether it's a bit arbitrary. Ok, maybe it should be 16 mph or 17 mph, but 30 mph is much too fast for an unlicensed rider on a bicycle with shitty brakes and knackered tyres, which is how most bicycles end up after a year or so of neglect.
For e-bikes, a fit rider can ride faster than 15 mph on the flat, but averagely fit people can’t sustain that for long. No averagely fit person can pedal a bike at 30 mph on the flat. Having a cutout limit set somewhere around 15 mph makes sense because e-bikes will be travelling at a similar speed to other riders, regardless of whether it’s a bit arbitrary
Agree, and what I would have thought was the basis for 25kph (a bit rounder than the converted 15.5mph!)
At 15mph an escooter can easily share the same spaces as a bicycle. It may be going faster than some cyclists and slower than others but it is about right.
Just imagine that we had some joined up thinking...
Urban areas have a blanket speed limit of 20mph.
Ebikes and scooters are limited to 20mph.
Result is there is no speed advantage to using a car so more people ride bikes and scooters.
Bikes and scooters are happy on the road because it's much safer, so they aren't on the pavement scaring pedestrians.
It'll never happen.
[quote!]Tbh I could maybe understand arguments against them if the limit was anything other than arbitrary, but really that is all the 15.5mph is, someone plucked that number out their arse, which has now been adopted as some kina moral line in the sand. Which is just nonsense.
Is there a link to this being plucked out if soneones arse? I was curious as to how the figure was arrived at but didn't get much further than it being based on 25kph in Europe.
The blanket speed limit in towns of 20mph has some merits. It ought to be possible to safely share the roads with other vehicles but that would require a reset in driver attitudes.
Just remember bikes were here first.
I would not want to share narrow cycle lanes with faster ebikes.
Would you want to hit a pothole at 15mph on an e scooter
Bad enough on a 700c wheel, the ramp angles on a 200c wheel would probably stop the thing and the rider to be ejected otb
What are the wheels even made of, medium density rubber i guess with some give but not alot.
Most of them are inflated (I think), so need to have some sort of maintenance, I guess when they are moved around and charged, although I have noticed that the latest generation in Stockholm have removeable batteries so that that they can be swapped and the scooter stays in service for longer.
I see the problems being more than just the speed limit... Here, they are legal as, for the most part, people are insured, rather than the mode of transport. You can hire them esaily enough from a large range of approved companies and people do.
The problems start when people ignore the rules around their hiring. That means riding on the footway and not cycle track or road, or taking two people, or just going whichever damned way they want to on a road whilst watching their phone and then abandoning them all over the frikking place. That is the thing that causes the problems and injuries. Here at least, the infrastructure for them exists and is used. Maybe not so much everywhere else.
Another problem is that, whilst the hire scooters can be geofenced for speed and hiring, private ones cannot. Private ones can also be unlocked to make them faster, but are less likely to be abandoned.
Would you want to hit a pothole at 15mph on an e scooter
Bad enough on a 700c wheel, the ramp angles on a 200c wheel would probably stop the thing and the rider to be ejected otb
Yep, seems to be the typical accident.
E-scooter accidents sent hundreds of people to Calgary ERs this summer, despite safety improvements
Although, to be fair, I'd rather have a city full of pissheads on scooters than playing fantasy street racing in shitty old cars.
Most Helsinki e-scooter injuries at night and while drunk; doctors call for weekend night-time ban